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  • Subject: Why all the hate on Glasslands
Subject: Why all the hate on Glasslands

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
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Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: grey101
And i ask for the 20th time What about Ackerson?


Ackerson is dead. You can't punish a dead man. Also, ONI isn't interested in ruining the public opinion of either person, else they wouldn't have kept Halsey's status as dead.

  • 01.11.2012 2:17 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Haveta add, ANYBODY that hates Halsey should hate ONI far, far more.

Especially since the ODST in question knows full well exactly what the Spartan 3's are apparently, and is fine with ONI.

It's a severe case of "WTF" that the man hates what Halsey did concerning the S2's, but is fine with ONI's S3 suicide soldiers barely in their teens when first deployed.

Actually no one trusts ONI as well and have their suspicion. But nearly 99% of people are ignorant of what goes on inside ONI other than the low based operation. The more secret ones were more protected.

  • 01.11.2012 2:20 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Haveta add, ANYBODY that hates Halsey should hate ONI far, far more.

Especially since the ODST in question knows full well exactly what the Spartan 3's are apparently, and is fine with ONI.

It's a severe case of "WTF" that the man hates what Halsey did concerning the S2's, but is fine with ONI's S3 suicide soldiers barely in their teens when first deployed.


It makes no sense, if the people defending the novel knew the lore behind Halsey's actions not to mention saw clear mistakes in Karen's writing then they would understand.

I don't give a Rats ass if Ackerson is dead, There were plenty of N@zi's that were tried at Nuremberg despite being dead. So that logic is invalid.


Besides, my personal viewpoint is the ODST hating/disliking Halsey for her actions (from a report's viewpoint, with nothing more) is okay.

But him at the same time being described as knowing the Spartan 3's are suicide soldiers and fine with that (even their age) is what ruins the whole situation.

Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.

  • 01.11.2012 2:22 PM PDT


Posted by: risay_117

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Haveta add, ANYBODY that hates Halsey should hate ONI far, far more.

Especially since the ODST in question knows full well exactly what the Spartan 3's are apparently, and is fine with ONI.

It's a severe case of "WTF" that the man hates what Halsey did concerning the S2's, but is fine with ONI's S3 suicide soldiers barely in their teens when first deployed.

Actually no one trusts ONI as well and have their suspicion. But nearly 99% of people are ignorant of what goes on inside ONI other than the low based operation. The more secret ones were more protected.


Come on, you are saying you wouldn't go "I can't continue this mission, I respectfully quit." After knowing ONI's made Spartan 3's suicide soldiers who are barely in their teens?

For him to continue working as if nothing is wrong, but at the same time hate Halsey is bull-blam!- to the extreme.

  • 01.11.2012 2:23 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.


They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.

  • 01.11.2012 2:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: grey101
And i ask for the 20th time What about Ackerson?


Ackerson is dead. You can't punish a dead man.


You can chose not to if the crimes we so bad then they would still be held accountable despite being Dead,Alive, or MIA. Again, Nuremberg trails.

  • 01.11.2012 2:25 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Risay, there is still the fact Hood sent the Spartans to Aid Halsey, and they return to Earth without Halsey.

Why did he not ask about Halsey to Fred? Why did he not debrief them on their mission to help those at Onyx?

Only cause that'd easily reveal Parangosky for the retard she is and would be the smart thing to do.

Trust and distraction, too much going on. Plus when did Halsey ever not have something of really small importance. The basis of concern in this book was mainly due to Halsey being the one requesting the help. There must be something major going on.

Not only that it was a message, a small one at that, and was used call for help, and with Halsey asking for it you know you need to send the men in now it could save our very existence. Plus he could not interrogate them.

The problem of not interrogating is not Traviss's problem that is for sure.

Why not reveal to Hood, mainly cause to say she was KIA on the mission, everyone knew that the covenant attacked the planet. Plus they are ONI assets. And no one know of the trial against Halsey.

But when i see it there are alot of more question i see, and you are right he would have debriefed them as he did get a message personally from Halsey after the fall of reach. But maybe he just knows when to shut up when its Paragnosky's business, not worth intefering and having to argue with her.

  • 01.11.2012 2:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.


They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.


Halsey and Mendez kept arguing despite Fred, the CO, telling them to stand down. Why didn't Fred Order the SIIIs to stand down after lucy punched halsey instead of them forming defensive groups?

  • 01.11.2012 2:27 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: grey101
And i ask for the 20th time What about Ackerson?


Ackerson is dead. You can't punish a dead man.


You can chose not to if the crimes we so bad then they would still be held accountable despite being Dead,Alive, or MIA. Again, Nuremberg trails.


Remember Ackerson and Halsey according to the public died as hero's, Halsey's trial is only at a need to know basis. Plus paragnosky does not look like the type to waste time on some dead person.

The real question was who conducted the trial, was it paragnosky and a couple of ONI members.

  • 01.11.2012 2:29 PM PDT


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.


They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.


I don't see any Spartan sitting in a room with others openly bashing Halsey and not saying a thing in defense of her.

Posted by: risay_117

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Risay, there is still the fact Hood sent the Spartans to Aid Halsey, and they return to Earth without Halsey.

Why did he not ask about Halsey to Fred? Why did he not debrief them on their mission to help those at Onyx?

Only cause that'd easily reveal Parangosky for the retard she is and would be the smart thing to do.

Trust and distraction, too much going on. Plus when did Halsey ever not have something of really small importance. The basis of concern in this book was mainly due to Halsey being the one requesting the help. There must be something major going on.

Not only that it was a message, a small one at that, and was used call for help, and with Halsey asking for it you know you need to send the men in now it could save our very existence. Plus he could not interrogate them.

The problem of not interrogating is not Traviss's problem that is for sure.

Why not reveal to Hood, mainly cause to say she was KIA on the mission, everyone knew that the covenant attacked the planet. Plus they are ONI assets. And no one know of the trial against Halsey.

But when i see it there are alot of more question i see, and you are right he would have debriefed them as he did get a message personally from Halsey after the fall of reach. But maybe he just knows when to shut up when its Paragnosky's business, not worth intefering and having to argue with her.


According to everybody at waypoint, Hood is higher then Parangosky in terms of chain of command.

Even then, give me a SINGLE, GOOD reason why ANY -blam!- SPARTAN 2 would lie to Hood and declare Halsey KIA.

You still haven't answered the bit about why Hood wouldn't go up to Fred and go "Fred, I sent blue team to aid Halsey, you are here and she is not. Where is she?"

  • 01.11.2012 2:30 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.


They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.

Yet Osman was keen on them getting to know each other and encouraged them to be open with each other.

  • 01.11.2012 2:31 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: grey101
And i ask for the 20th time What about Ackerson?


Ackerson is dead. You can't punish a dead man.


You can chose not to if the crimes we so bad then they would still be held accountable despite being Dead,Alive, or MIA. Again, Nuremberg trails.


I get what you are saying, and on that, I'm not excusing Ackerson's behavior.

Before Glasslands, I loved Halsey. I guess I am just siding against her now. All other events or people aside, if you're fighting colony worlds to keep them under control, you don't risk the loyalty of those with you by kidnapping kids. What if the program failed or was leaked? The common citizen would be furious.

If I were to have written Glasslands, I probably would have had a third party group, and not ONI, pursue this issue and seek out Halsey, instead of it having been some sort of internal soap opera. That, I will concede, did not seem to make the most sense. But, alas, ONI is the most advanced and ruthless Human organization. It's better than saying "Oh, and there's this other advanced group." That goes along with the complaints of details just popping up without being explained.

  • 01.11.2012 2:31 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.


They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.



Halsey and Mendez kept arguing despite Fred, the CO, telling them to stand down. Why didn't Fred Order the SIIIs to stand down after lucy punched halsey instead of them forming defensive groups?

Fred told them to stand down after quite a long fight he wanted to do this earlier but with little experience, could not. Maybe very little human experiece was the cause of this. The defeniveness was maybe not a threat.

  • 01.11.2012 2:32 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.


They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.

Yet Osman was keen on them getting to know each other and encouraged them to be open with each other.


What's the point you are trying to make?

Learn to work with and protect each other =/= disobey your orders.

  • 01.11.2012 2:32 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.


They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.

Yet Osman was keen on them getting to know each other and encouraged them to be open with each other.


What's the point you are trying to make?

Learn to work with and protect each other =/= disobey your orders.

How is defending Halsey verbally disobeying orders? I'm talking about when they were on the ship, not the sphere, in case you are thinking about the sphere.

  • 01.11.2012 2:34 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I don't see any Spartan sitting in a room with others open


But that's kind of my biggest issue going on with all this. I feel that everyone, on both sides, is so opinionated on the issue because it goes against their "My Halo..." view point.

  • 01.11.2012 2:37 PM PDT

yas334229812

Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually Hood you can say is but he did step down after the end of the war. Paragnosky is maybe not of that rank but a dangerous enemy and he does not want to start a fight.

The question about lying to Hood is that one must know whether Hood was allowed to debrief them or ONI took them in and not allow others contact with them. Hood may have had old powers but not anymore, plus we have to see what he was up to, he had a busy and hard time during Halo 3, may need to go for a retirement due to his age.

When we talk about Hood in this story i think we may be forgetting about the hard time he had during Halo 3. Plus for now if ONI said it is not of concern we are debriefing them and we will give you the report soon, he may use that. His priorities could be in many places right now and he is maybe not used to the peace time.

But you are right these question should be answered at least. I do not care how horrible the answer as long there is a definite answer

  • 01.11.2012 2:37 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Besides the fact Naomi apparently sat by as Osman bashed Halsey in verbally to the group and did absolutely nothing.


They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.

Yet Osman was keen on them getting to know each other and encouraged them to be open with each other.


What's the point you are trying to make?

Learn to work with and protect each other =/= disobey your orders.

How is defending Halsey verbally disobeying orders? I'm talking about when they were on the ship, not the sphere, in case you are thinking about the sphere.


Osman was Naomi's CO. Explain to me why a seasoned, professional soldier bred to keep from becoming emotional have an outburst in such a situation to their commanding officer.

Throughout Glasslands and GoO, it was mentioned that Spartans argued through body language and very slight differences. For example, when Kurt told Tom(?) to secure the nukes and pack them into cases instead of helping clear the area, he argued with the slightest delay in his "acknowledged" green light. This was clearly stated in the book. That's the behavior to expect, not throwing a fit and storming off.

  • 01.11.2012 2:41 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Xd00999

Posted by: prometheus25

They are still soldiers; they still have to obey orders.

Yet Osman was keen on them getting to know each other and encouraged them to be open with each other.


What's the point you are trying to make?

Learn to work with and protect each other =/= disobey your orders.

How is defending Halsey verbally disobeying orders? I'm talking about when they were on the ship, not the sphere, in case you are thinking about the sphere.


Osman was Naomi's CO. Explain to me why a seasoned, professional soldier bred to keep from becoming emotional have an outburst in such a situation to their commanding officer.

Throughout Glasslands and GoO, it was mentioned that Spartans argued through body language and very slight differences. For example, when Kurt told Tom(?) to secure the nukes and pack them into cases instead of helping clear the area, he argued with the slightest delay in his "acknowledged" green light. This was clearly stated in the book. That's the behavior to expect, not throwing a fit and storming off.

Yes, I can hardly expect to see a Spartan throwing a tantrum like a child. I would at least expect to see Naomi disagrees with Osman's point of view in that kind of subtle way instead of just standing there.

  • 01.11.2012 2:44 PM PDT

yas334229812

Naomi may be feeling some regret. But maybe just did it anyway, because of orders. Disagreed with the idea but carried on via body.

  • 01.11.2012 2:48 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Xd00999
Yes, I can hardly expect to see a Spartan throwing a tantrum like a child. I would at least expect to see Naomi disagrees with Osman's point of view in that kind of subtle way instead of just standing there.


I never said anything about Naomi throwing a "tantrum like a child." I'm not trying to make you look wrong or stupid, just trying to explain my viewpoint and back it up with sound arguments.

Wasn't it described that Naomi sat there tight-lipped, and Vaz knew there was tension between Naomi and Osman regarding "this Halsey lady." I read that as such subtle behavior clues on Naomi's frustration and contempt on the matter.

  • 01.11.2012 2:50 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: prometheus25
You do realize this is science-fiction, right? You're looking ridiculous trying to demand where the UNSC bean-counters were during all of this.


Pretty much every other book dealt with the effects of funding for the UNSC war effort, now it doesn't matter because it's science-fiction? Seriously?

  • 01.11.2012 3:33 PM PDT


Posted by: risay_117
Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually Hood you can say is but he did step down after the end of the war. Paragnosky is maybe not of that rank but a dangerous enemy and he does not want to start a fight.

The question about lying to Hood is that one must know whether Hood was allowed to debrief them or ONI took them in and not allow others contact with them. Hood may have had old powers but not anymore, plus we have to see what he was up to, he had a busy and hard time during Halo 3, may need to go for a retirement due to his age.

When we talk about Hood in this story i think we may be forgetting about the hard time he had during Halo 3. Plus for now if ONI said it is not of concern we are debriefing them and we will give you the report soon, he may use that. His priorities could be in many places right now and he is maybe not used to the peace time.

But you are right these question should be answered at least. I do not care how horrible the answer as long there is a definite answer


Where did it say Hood stepped down? The feeling I got from what I read in glasslands was he was the actual military head of the UNSC.

Still, as an admiral they'd haveta have DAMN good reasons not to tell the full truth. What would those reasons by? Why should ANY Spartan 2 not tell him what happened to Halsey or not? He sent them there, he assigned the mission, he'd get the debriefing.

Besides, if I was him, I'd instantly ask them where Halsey is. I see absolutely not reason for him not to.


Posted by: prometheus25
Osman was Naomi's CO. Explain to me why a seasoned, professional soldier bred to keep from becoming emotional have an outburst in such a situation to their commanding officer.

Throughout Glasslands and GoO, it was mentioned that Spartans argued through body language and very slight differences. For example, when Kurt told Tom(?) to secure the nukes and pack them into cases instead of helping clear the area, he argued with the slightest delay in his "acknowledged" green light. This was clearly stated in the book. That's the behavior to expect, not throwing a fit and storming off.


Since when is Naomi telling the good parts of Halsey to the group 'throwing a fit and storming off'?

It'd certainly disprove the fact Traviss showed a one-sided viewpoint despite her claims of neutrality in the presentation of the book.

  • 01.11.2012 4:09 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: prometheus25
You do realize this is science-fiction, right? You're looking ridiculous trying to demand where the UNSC bean-counters were during all of this.


Pretty much every other book dealt with the effects of funding for the UNSC war effort, now it doesn't matter because it's science-fiction? Seriously?


Unless you can tell us the ins and outs of the UNSC's budget, and the ONI's budget, as well as in what state specifically ONI's budget is in, I don't see a point in discussing funding. What effects that were discussed previously came primarily down too "the cost for *insert item here* is outrageous, you could build a battle group with that kind of money!" Economics really were more about resource management, like nuclear stockpiles (or lack of). There were no long monologues detailing the UNSC budget limitations, or ONI's for that (who works so far outside the law that budgeting is probably not their biggest concern). There was no detailed explanation on how the economic system worked, and all we know about the UNSC's budget is that it is severely depleted by war's end. But by what standards is it depleted? I'm sure that even post war UNSC would be an economic tyrant in modern day earth, what with them having access to the resources of multiple worlds.

What worlds they have are fewer by far then pre-war, but they no less are still an interstellar and interplanetary force with full access to those worlds. By our standards, they'd be able to buy us all out. So it isn't really that hard to understand that, with the resources of so many worlds and an effective encyclopedia on all things Forerunners, as well as a treassure trove of working technology presumably on all facets of science, from medicale to starship, that they'd be able to construct the Infinity or start the Spartan IV program or create the MJOLNIR Mk. VII, which, I'll remind you, was being constructed before war's end, for the war. No one was -blam!- ing about the Mk. V. and VI, armors being made just months prior to war's end, now were they? Was it because there was still a war on? Yes. Is Mk. VII being constructed for a war that ended ubruptly and with no notice? Yes. Was the budget in pretty much the same condition a couple months prior to the war's end as it is now? Yes, except now the UNSC can focus less on battle groups and war fighting and concentrate on other endeavors; in that regard, they have more oppurtunity. So I don't get the complaints.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

[quote]Posted by: risay_117

It'd certainly disprove the fact Traviss showed a one-sided viewpoint despite her claims of neutrality in the presentation of the book.


If you want the other side of the argument, read literally every thing in the Halo universe that depicts Halsey sans Glasslands. Traviss was just writing how anyone would react to the revelation that someone was using children as experiments and soldiers--for the characters (whose mind we occupy in tight third person writing, as is what she writes) there is virtually no nuetrality involved in such a revelation. Traviss isn't expressing her opinion, she's expressing the opinions of the characters.

It's also only the first book in a trilogy. If the Gears of War novels are anything to go by, she introduces different opinions in book sequels. The first book or so was more pro-humanity and anti-Locust. Then the last few came out and showed the human race was pretty much just as awful as the Locust Horde, depicting the Hammer strikes, the ongoing racial biggotry of the Coaltion and West Indies(?) and Stranded. So if Glasslands is anti-Halsey, perhaps book two or three will be pro-Halsey, who knows.

[Edited on 01.11.2012 4:28 PM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 4:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

We weren't B!Tching about Mark V and VI because we know there would be a limited amount due to the spartans and each armor costing a battle group. Mark VII coming out so soon after Mark VI isn't right.

Nor is ONI having such a large budget when they then comment on the collapsing economy of UEG and the UNSC.

  • 01.11.2012 4:28 PM PDT