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This topic has moved here: Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.
  • Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.
Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

We really do have a set of guidelines on how to approach warnings/bans. I would copy and paste it if I were allowed to, but I can't. Our process is very similar to flowchart 1. What is different is what Yoozel said in that there are variables. We take ban history into account, for example.

  • 01.11.2012 9:42 AM PDT

yas334229812

Let the mods do their job if it does not affect you and is in no way morally wrong then who cares.

  • 01.11.2012 9:42 AM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Duardo
We really do have a set of guidelines on how to approach warnings/bans. I would copy and paste it if I were allowed to, but I can't. Our process is very similar to flowchart 1. What is different is what Yoozel said in that there are variables. We take ban history into account, for example.

Why can you not paste it, in fear loopholes will be found

  • 01.11.2012 9:43 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."


Posted by: risay_117
Why can you not paste it, in fear loopholes will be found
Yeah..that's it.

  • 01.11.2012 9:44 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: risay_117
Posted by: Duardo
We really do have a set of guidelines on how to approach warnings/bans. I would copy and paste it if I were allowed to, but I can't. Our process is very similar to flowchart 1. What is different is what Yoozel said in that there are variables. We take ban history into account, for example.

Why can you not paste it, in fear loopholes will be found

Not fear, acceptance.

No one can write a program, construct a flow-chart, lay out a diagram that can/will handle human-to-human interactions, especially when the interactions take place in a medium as subjective and malleable as text.

Which is why our hosts have people doing this job and not some well-written script/bot. Anytime someone comes up with an "if this - then that" rule for people interacting, it only takes a human being with a few functioning neurons to find an exception or a way to highlight the flaws in the rule.

So, since the subject matter is so flexible, uncertain, and (pardon the expression) subjective... you need to have an adaptive and flexible method to deal with it. Bungie chose us. Whether or not that is/was/remains a wise move? Well, as we can see, the debate continues.

But does anyone REALLY want a Disembodied Soul 2.0 enforcing the membership agreement on the forums?

  • 01.11.2012 9:51 AM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: The Storm
I made some revisions to your flow diagram to provide a more accurate representation.
Have my children.

  • 01.11.2012 9:56 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."


Posted by: Recon Number 54
But does anyone REALLY want a Disembodied Soul 2.0 enforcing the membership agreement on the forums?
As I recall, The Soul 1.0 went on a rampage once and decided to start banning everyone. 2.0 would probably do the same, only with entire deletion of the site...

...or assimilate everyone so that we can all becomes disembodied souls.

  • 01.11.2012 9:59 AM PDT

Posted by: The Storm
I made some revisions to your flow diagram to provide a more accurate representation.
I love it:

Is this user breaking the rules? > No > Do you like them? > Yes > Is it yourself? > Yes > Wink at yourself in the mirror.I lol'd quite hard. I actually like the moderation here, mostly because I like to stay out of the way of the harsh stuff. The people with the power are enforcers, they are informative, and pretty chill human beings. Hope that didn't upset anyone, merely my punitive perspective.

  • 01.11.2012 10:00 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

What ever happened to "Welcome to Bungie, you have no rights?

[Edited on 01.11.2012 10:20 AM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 10:20 AM PDT

Rarity FTW

I think the moderating here is pretty good. At least until Foman shows up.

  • 01.11.2012 10:20 AM PDT

yas334229812

The good thing here ist hat ther are no realt terms and conditions that must apply but its just mainly based on common sense.

  • 01.11.2012 10:25 AM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.


Posted by: coolcor13
I think the moderating here is pretty good. At least until Foman shows up.
Here's my flowchart:

Is user criticizing Foman?
Yes Maybe No-------------------------> Don't Ban
|........|
|........|
|........|
|........|
V.......V
Ban Ban

[Edited on 01.11.2012 10:34 AM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 10:31 AM PDT

yas334229812

Just to ask why do people call foman a really strict mod

  • 01.11.2012 10:33 AM PDT

Rarity FTW


Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: coolcor13
I think the moderating here is pretty good. At least until Foman shows up.
Here's my flowchart:

Is user criticizing Foman?
Yes Maybe No-------------------------> Don't Ban
|........|
|........|
|........|
|........|
V.......V
Ban Ban


Who else but Foman?

*cue laughtrack*

  • 01.11.2012 10:35 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Love the layout of your flowchart.
Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: coolcor13
I think the moderating here is pretty good. At least until Foman shows up.
Here's my flowchart:

Is user criticizing Foman?
Yes Maybe No-------------------------> Don't Ban
|........|
|........|
|........|
|........|
V.......V
Ban Ban

  • 01.11.2012 10:38 AM PDT

Right? You can even edit it to make a happy face! See?
Posted by: Qbix89
Love the layout of your flowchart.
Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: coolcor13
I think the moderating here is pretty good. At least until Foman shows up.

||
V

  • 01.11.2012 10:41 AM PDT
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Why are you reading my signature? Who actually opens these things and reads them!

And as always, SEND ME A PM. Please. Or really bad things will happen to you.

Posted by: risay_117
Just to ask why do people call foman a really strict mod

Do you see his Ban Flowchart? It's riddled with evil.

  • 01.11.2012 10:55 AM PDT

Tom Achronos
Bungie.net Overlord
twitter: http://twitter.com/Achronos

"I have no words that would do justice to the atrocities you commit to the English language, as well as your continued assaults on the concepts of basic literacy and logical reasoning."

And that word won't ever come. Of all the rules, the things under "Render Unto..." clause in the code of conduct are very serious. For some types of those violations, the moderators are even directed to report details to us so that we can determine if the authorities need to be called or at least prepare for when/if the authorities call (both have happened several times). That's how serious we take it.

If you're trying to use bungie.net for illegal activities, expect your account to be permabanned. That is NOT a line you want to test. The idea that this is somehow heavy handed, or bad for the community, or hyperbole, is simply wrong and more than a little naive.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
You are unaware of and not privy to the internal discussions (and trust me, there are plenty) between the moderators and our management. All it would take for me to alter my practice is a single word. "Stop".

But that word has to come from our hosts or collectively from my colleagues. I will accept such direction if it does. But from those sources only. Not from a member or even a number of members who find my practices "unreasonable" or "unfair".

  • 01.11.2012 10:56 AM PDT
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Join Halo Haven! (Group Leader: A 3 Legged Goat)

(To discuss Halo 4.)

The thing is the rules are so vague the moderators can ban anyone they want and probably get away with it.

That is a good thing, but it implies that any new or old mods won't go the way of Pezza...

[Edited on 01.11.2012 11:08 AM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 11:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: Yoozel
I haven't been to many forums where you can directly message the moderator and enter an appeals process.
I haven't been to any where you can't, in all honesty. Even 4chan has an appeals process and its users don't even have names.

  • 01.11.2012 11:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
But does anyone REALLY want a Disembodied Soul 2.0 enforcing the membership agreement on the forums?
Well, it'd be better than nothing.

  • 01.11.2012 11:14 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

We have a system in place if a member every feels that their ban was unjustified. We even have an article in HFCS and linked in the rules which offer guidelines on how to go about appealing a forum ban.
Posted by: Quantam
The thing is the rules are so vague the moderators can ban anyone they want and probably get away with it.

That is a good thing, but it implies that any new or old mods won't go the way of Pezza...

  • 01.11.2012 11:16 AM PDT
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Well, here we are. I guess that it was destined to come to this.

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Recon Number 54
But does anyone REALLY want a Disembodied Soul 2.0 enforcing the membership agreement on the forums?
Well, it'd be better than nothing.

I just read that and heard Mark Hamill's voice acting of the Joker. Including the laugh.

I think that I may have been playing too much Arkham City.

<3

  • 01.11.2012 11:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: Duardo
We have a system in place if a member every feels that their ban was unjustified. We even have an article in HFCS and linked in the rules which offer guidelines on how to go about appealing a forum ban.
Posted by: Quantam
The thing is the rules are so vague the moderators can ban anyone they want and probably get away with it.

That is a good thing, but it implies that any new or old mods won't go the way of Pezza...

Yes, but it doesn't matter because the day an intelligent troll comes to Bungie.net, and is detrimental to the site without breaking the rules specifically, what will you do?

Ban him. Will his appeal be upheld? No, because it is a user decision and it is for the greater good.

  • 01.11.2012 11:18 AM PDT

Breaking barriers.

As I've seen stated, a strictly black and white, or generally for that matter, model for determining which action, if any, is necessary when a post is questionable simply does not work. Text, especially, as highlighted by RC54, can be a little more than ambiguous when attempting to determine intent. A black a white system cannot account for instances like this, and many more exist on a variety of different levels.

The only way to properly enforce rules for humans is by humans.

[Edited on 01.11.2012 11:23 AM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 11:23 AM PDT