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This topic has moved here: Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.
  • Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.
Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator.


Posted by: Cay330
Obligated to or not, it would certainly stop people posting "why was that locked threads" in The Flood & therefore spamming the forums further. It'd also show "normal" users that it's not just a random lock & that there is actual reasoning behind it.

  • 01.11.2012 1:42 PM PDT
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  • Intrepid Legendary Member


Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator.


Posted by: Cay330
Obligated to or not, it would certainly stop people posting "why was that locked threads" in The Flood & therefore spamming the forums further. It'd also show "normal" users that it's not just a random lock & that there is actual reasoning behind it.


Considering how often threads are locked, it would only be an incredibly minor annoyance & would go to the second page in minutes (as already happens now).

Also, we don't know which moderator locked it - so how are we supposed to know who to PM?

  • 01.11.2012 1:47 PM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!


Posted by: Recon Number 54
I have a zero tolerance for the entire "Render unto Caesar" clause of the Code of Conduct. Any clear violation of which is putting our hosts (and therefor the existence of this community) at a very real risk.


What if something like that was posted by a user who lives in a country where downloading such content or performing said action is legal? Is this taken into account by moderators? After all, they might not even know it's illegal somewhere else.

  • 01.11.2012 1:54 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Madmaxepic

Posted by: Recon Number 54
I have a zero tolerance for the entire "Render unto Caesar" clause of the Code of Conduct. Any clear violation of which is putting our hosts (and therefor the existence of this community) at a very real risk.


What if something like that was posted by a user who lives in a country where downloading such content or performing said action is legal? Is this taken into account by moderators? After all, they might not even know it's illegal somewhere else.


Regardless, this is a privately owned website of a private corporation. They have the right to control what goes on. It's similar to property rights. You can come to my lawn and say whatever you want, but once I deem that I don't want you on my lawful property, you have to leave. Doesn't matter what you were saying, I own that hypothetical property, just like Bungie Studios, Inc. owns this digital property.

  • 01.11.2012 2:12 PM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!

Posted by: Duardo
We really do have a set of guidelines on how to approach warnings/bans. I would copy and paste it if I were allowed to, but I can't. Our process is very similar to flowchart 1. What is different is what Yoozel said in that there are variables. We take ban history into account, for example.


How come you are not allowed to? Why doesn't Bungie want us to know how you decide when to ban users, so that we could better follow the rules?

  • 01.11.2012 2:13 PM PDT

I who walk alone in this world wrapped in the arms of the past not knowing what lies ahead of me. What am I? A soulless being to be beaten by the rage of those who hate me? Cutting my way past hopes and dreams. Sit in the window sill as I do every day and night resignations on my slate of who I am and what is left behind. Concealed in the words that chases my every thought. I who walk alone in this world…I am broken



Posted by: Tom T
...this...


That was a good read man thank you for insight,

  • 01.11.2012 2:18 PM PDT

The Forerunner, the Great Journey, and Heaven Theory

[Announcement Trailer] Halo: Forerunner

Posted by: Agustus
I lol'd at the absurd miscommunication that occurs whenever dibbs post something. Perhaps his brain is so highly evolved that he can no longer clearly communicate with lesser life forms, even among his own species.

Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator.


Posted by: Cay330
Obligated to or not, it would certainly stop people posting "why was that locked threads" in The Flood & therefore spamming the forums further. It'd also show "normal" users that it's not just a random lock & that there is actual reasoning behind it.
We should probably throw a "sage" option for moderators onto the list of "things that would be cool but which we'll never see".

  • 01.11.2012 2:28 PM PDT

DMH | TMA | Blueprint

Can't be too careful with your company. I can feel the devil walking next to me.

Throw a moderator edit into the OP as to why it's locked. No bump, and people figure out by looking at the first post.
Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator.


Posted by: Cay330
Obligated to or not, it would certainly stop people posting "why was that locked threads" in The Flood & therefore spamming the forums further. It'd also show "normal" users that it's not just a random lock & that there is actual reasoning behind it.

  • 01.11.2012 2:35 PM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!

Posted by: Karl2177
Throw a moderator edit into the OP as to why it's locked. No bump, and people figure out by looking at the first post.
Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator.


Posted by: Cay330
Obligated to or not, it would certainly stop people posting "why was that locked threads" in The Flood & therefore spamming the forums further. It'd also show "normal" users that it's not just a random lock & that there is actual reasoning behind it.


Can mods do that? O_o

I have never seen that happen before, outside a group.

Now you have.
~Foman


[Edited on 01.11.2012 2:41 PM PST by x Foman123 x]

  • 01.11.2012 2:37 PM PDT
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  • Intrepid Legendary Member


Posted by: Madmaxepic
Posted by: Karl2177
Throw a moderator edit into the OP as to why it's locked. No bump, and people figure out by looking at the first post.
Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator.


Posted by: Cay330
Obligated to or not, it would certainly stop people posting "why was that locked threads" in The Flood & therefore spamming the forums further. It'd also show "normal" users that it's not just a random lock & that there is actual reasoning behind it.


Can mods do that? O_o

I have never seen that happen before, outside a group.

Now you have.
~Foman


Yes, they can. I have had my OPs attacked by Recon thousands of times before.

  • 01.11.2012 2:44 PM PDT

yas334229812


Posted by: Madmaxepic
Posted by: Karl2177
Throw a moderator edit into the OP as to why it's locked. No bump, and people figure out by looking at the first post.
Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator.


Posted by: Cay330
Obligated to or not, it would certainly stop people posting "why was that locked threads" in The Flood & therefore spamming the forums further. It'd also show "normal" users that it's not just a random lock & that there is actual reasoning behind it.


Can mods do that? O_o

I have never seen that happen before, outside a group.

Now you have.
~Foman

They can i had my topic post edited due to a message from someone breaking the rules and trying to bring this up as a concern. Once looked at it was edited to remove the message as it was harmfull.

  • 01.11.2012 2:46 PM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!

Posted by: Madmaxepic
Now you have.
~Foman


[Edited on 01.11.2012 2:41 PM PST by x Foman123 x]


BAH! that scared me O_o lolz

  • 01.11.2012 2:50 PM PDT

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P


Posted by: Der Flatulator6

Posted by: Zealot Tony
Posted by: Der Flatulator6
Posted by: Zealot Tony
As other users have mentioned, the moderators don't cognitively think like a "hive-mind", more so have different perspectives on the rules and how they enforce them.

I can't speak for the moderators here, but as a member of the moderation team at Halo Waypoint, I can say that any decisions that aren't clear cut are discussed with other moderators before a decision is made, and/or action is taken. So we kinda are like a "hive-mind".

Yes, discussion would be encouraged when a moderator is unsure about how to handle a particular situation. However, a confident result which one moderator issues may be different to how another moderator deals with the same situation - they make this decision without consolidating anyone else, under the assumption that it is the right choice. I don't consider this as a "hive-mind" sort of behaviour (although there may other area of moderation which require it).
As true as that may be, moderation is often simple when you have rules to go by. What's spam is spam, flaming is flaming, etc. However judgement calls are common, but as a rule, a decision that isn't clear cut, should be discussed. I'm not going into the details of the process, but you should be aware that there is more discussion going on than you think.

I believe a heck of a lot of discussion goes into any moderation team, which revolves about a variety of issues (I'd be scared if there wasn't). But, I also believe that having rules which are set in concrete don't give a moderator much leeway to make judgements, when compared to rules which are slightly more ambiguous ect.

If the rules where simple - one line - points, then we wouldn't see slight variations in judgement on the mains (such as if the a banned when another user would be banned for longer). Variables are factors which can contribute to this judgement, and it's ultimately the moderator to decide if they can be considered when making the final call about how long a user will be banned/warned, or if they will simply receive a PM from the moderator; not the entire moderation team.

Sure, variables are told to taken into consolidation when a moderator bans, but it is ultimately up to that single moderator to deduce the outcome of a problem (and how may they take into account each variable when making the final call); and this outcome may yield slightly different results, when compared to another moderator.

However - like you said - if one decision is so erratically different to how other moderators have been moderating, then I'd also be sure the moderator who carried out the decision would discuss it with his cohort about the why factor.

  • 01.11.2012 2:51 PM PDT

*joins in with righteous slow-clap*
Posted by: Qbix89
*applauds*
Posted by: The Storm
I made some revisions to your flow diagram to provide a more accurate representation.

  • 01.11.2012 2:52 PM PDT

yas334229812

Still we have no rights so we have no rights to question.

  • 01.11.2012 2:53 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120

OT: Not to be too much of a brown nose but I have no problem with the moderation, or the moderators on B.net.

The rules are pretty simple and easy to understand. It's not exactly Rocket Science.

If a member, new or otherwise, neglects to read the rules that are pinned in every single forum, or, as of the last few months, the 'No longer in charge of Halo' notice above the post box, then why shouldn't their thread be locked and they be informed by a moderator why it was locked, which, at least in my experience, that's how it's done.

Posted by: Cay330

Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator.

Posted by: Cay330
Obligated to or not, it would certainly stop people posting "why was that locked threads" in The Flood & therefore spamming the forums further. It'd also show "normal" users that it's not just a random lock & that there is actual reasoning behind it.


Considering how often threads are locked, it would only be an incredibly minor annoyance & would go to the second page in minutes (as already happens now).

Also, we don't know which moderator locked it - so how are we supposed to know who to PM?


Furthermore, everything in life has a reason, including bans. When a thread is locked, we still have the ability to access and view it's content unless it has been removed or blocked. Given this, if you're so curios as to why a thread was locked in the first place, why not cross reference it's content with the CoC and Forum Rules, rather than expect the mods and or employees to hold your hand and whisper sweet nothings into your ear while they make it all better.

  • 01.11.2012 3:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: spartan120

Furthermore, everything in life has a reason, including bans. When a thread is locked, we still have the ability to access and view it's content unless it has been removed or blocked. Given this, if you're so curios as to why a thread was locked in the first place, why not cross reference it's content with the CoC and Forum Rules, rather than expect the mods and or employees to hold your hand and whisper sweet nothings into your ear while they make it all better.



For the sake of argument, a thread that would've made sense to have a post just saying why it's been locked would be this one. It encourages discussion, it isn't spam, it was a friendly thread, it wasn't a troll, it was SFW etc. & locking it comes across as baffling (and banning the OP, especially) to me personally & a quick sentence as to why it was locked would remedy this.

  • 01.11.2012 3:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Cay330

For the sake of argument, a thread that would've made sense to have a post just saying why it's been locked would be this one. It encourages discussion, it isn't spam, it was a friendly thread, it wasn't a troll, it was SFW etc. & locking it comes across as baffling (and banning the OP, especially) to me personally & a quick sentence as to why it was locked would remedy this.

That thread looks like spam, also it looks like it got really close to being nothing but flaming at the end.

  • 01.11.2012 3:25 PM PDT

@JosephBiwald
View my Art

Per Audacia Ad Astra

The moderation on Bungie.net has treated me well for the last past five years. This is probably because I've never complained about the moderation on Bungie.net. This is probably because I've followed the rules on Bungie.net and have only received one warning.

I wonder if my view would be different if I was banned?

  • 01.11.2012 3:38 PM PDT

The beta is super awesome. RogueAssassin27 is now the person who got my Totodile's nickname. Hoo-hah! Relevant.inb4lock

M'KAY THEN, IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO THIS.

Don't like your ban? Debate with the Ninja. Lost the debate? Too bad!

The system is perfectly fine for an average Internet forum, we aren't creating a moderation system for a country.

  • 01.11.2012 3:46 PM PDT
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ODST Expeditionary Force I The WorkPLace I Mythics
Technically Mythic
Posted by: Cobravert
I just saw a green monkey nut shot a small tan lizard(?) in a gunny sack.

Sorry, Recon, but I fail to see how discussion of piracy, or declaring intent to pirate, is THAT much of a danger to the existence of this site. I really don't. I mean, maybe linking to pirating sites, but piracy discussion? How can you moderate the acts people do outside of this site?

  • 01.11.2012 3:49 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: chubbz
Sorry, Recon, but I fail to see how discussion of piracy, or declaring intent to pirate, is THAT much of a danger to the existence of this site. I really don't. I mean, maybe linking to pirating sites, but piracy discussion? How can you moderate the acts people do outside of this site?


Piracy is illegal and should not be discussed here.

  • 01.11.2012 3:51 PM PDT

There's a few things that bother me about the ban/warning system. I dislike that warnings affect titles. It doesnt seem to fair if I, or someone else, makes a small mistake in judgement, receives a fair warning, but is then basically never going to receive a title. I also dislike the hint of favoritism on here, it's clearly quite present at times.

On another note I also think there are times where a rule is broken, and a warning isn't necessary, especially when a rule clearly wasn't broken on purpose or was barely broken at all. I recall a thread where I shared a video that I intended to simply show people that homo-blam!- relationships aren't too different from homo-blam!- ones, then it got locked and I was warned for "political discussion" despite that clearly not being my intention.

I also recall a thread that mentioned piracy or something. I posted informing the user that it was illegal and against the rules, and was warned for discussing illegal activities. I dont consider that "discussing". I wasn't engaging in conversation at all.

Just some of my thoughts.

  • 01.11.2012 3:55 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

ODST Expeditionary Force I The WorkPLace I Mythics
Technically Mythic
Posted by: Cobravert
I just saw a green monkey nut shot a small tan lizard(?) in a gunny sack.


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: chubbz
Sorry, Recon, but I fail to see how discussion of piracy, or declaring intent to pirate, is THAT much of a danger to the existence of this site. I really don't. I mean, maybe linking to pirating sites, but piracy discussion? How can you moderate the acts people do outside of this site?


Piracy is illegal and should not be discussed here.


The discussion of piracy is not illegal. That would be an infringement on free speech(inb4youhavenorightsplaynicehurrdurrderpityderp). Either way, it doesn't apply to my point of moderating an action performed outside of this site. I don't see how punishing discussion of piracy beyond the act of linking torrents/pirate sites is logical OR justified. Would you like to try again?


[Edited on 01.11.2012 4:09 PM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 4:08 PM PDT