Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.
  • Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.
Subject: Let's talk general forum moderation vs. bnet moderation.


Posted by: Yoozel
You left that at the door upon signing the membership agreement.

Posted by: coolmike699
The absolute most that discussing, encouraging, or enabling "real crimes" on this site would bring is a subpoena. There's no laws against discussing, instructing on, or encouraging crime (it's the First Amendment).



You're right.

I'm being a bit nitpicky, but I think it's important nonetheless. I'm saying that there's no law against advocating illegal activity, not that we should be allowed to here. If I was a mod, I'd ban people for it, too.

  • 01.11.2012 4:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag: iBIind
  • user homepage:

Whoo.

I think the moderators do a great job.

Posted by: Cay330
I have had my OPs attacked
What does that even mean?
I never knew you could lay seige to an OP.

[Edited on 01.11.2012 4:31 PM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 4:26 PM PDT


Posted by: MURDUR 587
I think the moderators do a great job.


Me too.


But they could still improve, and make the community even better. To say "I think you need improvement here" is not the same as saying "You're doing a bad job".

  • 01.11.2012 4:38 PM PDT
  • gamertag: iBIind
  • user homepage:

Whoo.

Posted by: coolmike699
Me too.


But they could still improve, and make the community even better. To say "I think you need improvement here" is not the same as saying "You're doing a bad job".
Yeah, but the examples in the OP implied that.

Like Moderators are just banning whenever they see rules broken, not thinking about it at all.
(I haven't really looked into the thread past the OP so I'm not entirely sure how the conversation has progressed, I've only really gone back one page and saw Cay's comment.)

  • 01.11.2012 4:47 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.


Posted by: chubbz

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: chubbz
Sorry, Recon, but I fail to see how discussion of piracy, or declaring intent to pirate, is THAT much of a danger to the existence of this site. I really don't. I mean, maybe linking to pirating sites, but piracy discussion? How can you moderate the acts people do outside of this site?


Piracy is illegal and should not be discussed here.


The discussion of piracy is not illegal. That would be an infringement on free speech(inb4youhavenorightsplaynicehurrdurrderpityderp). Either way, it doesn't apply to my point of moderating an action performed outside of this site. I don't see how punishing discussion of piracy beyond the act of linking torrents/pirate sites is logical OR justified. Would you like to try again?
Are you serious or just playing devil's advocate? I don't want to believe you're truthfully sitting on the website of a software developer acting indignant and mocking others about the prohibition of discussion of software piracy, but if you are, you need to rethink your position.

And you actually dared to bring up free speech. Jesus you're brave. Talk about "derpity derp."

[Edited on 01.11.2012 5:16 PM PST]

  • 01.11.2012 5:03 PM PDT

"No, Hoobla. No."
~DeeJ

If the moderation was perfect i would not be a Honorable Member right now...

  • 01.11.2012 5:05 PM PDT


Posted by: x Foman123 x
Are you serious or just playing devil's advocate? I don't want to believe you're truthfully sitting on the website of a software developer acting indignant and mocking others about the prohibition of discussion of software piracy, but if you are, you need to rethink your position.

And you actually dared to bring up free speech. Jesus you're brave. Talk about "derpity derp."


Discussing something and advocating it are two entirely different things. He even specified "beyond linking to illegal content". And he said that free speech "doesn't apply to my point of moderating an action performed outside of this site". Freedom of speech is simply the counterargument to "discussing piracyb is illegal".

And when he said "inb4youhavenorightsplaynicehurrdurrderpityderp", that's not mocking anyone, that's just acknowledging he's considered the argument that "this is Bungie's site" and found it to be irrelevant to his point.

Wait, aren't you a lawyer for the government? Isn't carefully reading what your opponent says to use it against him your job? Don't you have to correctly interpret unclear language all the time?

  • 01.11.2012 5:41 PM PDT

youtube.com/whatsakillingspree

The problem with your post is that there is no "formula" to moderation. Moderation is often repetitive, yes, but you can't treat every case the same. People have differing offenses and ban history, weight with the community, harshness of offense, etc. I honestly don't think that you need to worry about moderation here, the ninjas have it pretty well covered (except maybe deep into the night). If you really want a formula, try this one.

Don't break the rules, 0% chance of getting banned.
Break the rules, x% chance of getting banned.

TLDR Don't do anything stupid and you'll be fine, don't worry about the moderation because moderation is for the mods to worry about.

  • 01.11.2012 5:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: The Storm
I made some revisions to your flow diagram to provide a more accurate representation.

You win. Everything.

  • 01.11.2012 6:00 PM PDT


Posted by: Der Flatulator6
Posted by: Zealot Tony
As other users have mentioned, the moderators don't cognitively think like a "hive-mind", more so have different perspectives on the rules and how they enforce them.

I can't speak for the moderators here, but as a member of the moderation team at Halo Waypoint, I can say that any decisions that aren't clear cut are discussed with other moderators before a decision is made, and/or action is taken. So we kinda are like a "hive-mind".

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Compared to most online moderators BNet's are less strict by leagues upon leagues. Seriously. If you think that BNet mods will ban people excessively, and without thought, I implore you to visit The Waypoint Forums. The abysmal moderation staff there (which has made many people, including myself, leave their forums altogether) will people for getting into simple disagreements because it looks poorly on their community. THEN, they'll delete all evidence of the "offending" post(s), so any form of legitimate ban appeal is impossible because the only people who can see the deleted posts are those who are sentencing you.
Firstly, posts are only deleted under strict circumstances, such as Duplicate posts/spam. All other offenses are edited, and edits are visible to all moderators and administrators, so if you would like to appeal a ban, then you can contact any moderator or administrator. We are a small team, but we are very active, and hold tight to the rules and regulations.

To address the OP, with the factor of "benefiting the community", the rules are designed to benefit the community, so logically breaking the rules would not benefit the community. Of course there are exceptions, and they should be considered, both here, and on the Waypoint forums.


Unfortunately, it seems like "don't argue with anybody ever" is rule over there.

  • 01.11.2012 6:07 PM PDT

My Screenshots / My Group / Remember to follow the rules or you will get trapped in a box.

Well on other sites I see trolls roaming all over. On bnet it's pretty peaceful.

  • 01.11.2012 6:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: x Foman123 x
I don't want to believe you're truthfully sitting on the website of a software developer acting indignant and mocking others about the prohibition of discussion of software piracy, but if you are, you need to rethink your position.
You of all people should understand that discussion, promotion and facilitation are three completely different things. Realistically only those latter two have solid reasoning to be banned, the first has a multitude of legitimate circumstances; the effects of DRM on game releases, for example.

Unless, that is, you want to ban talking about Spore, too.

Which is fine, Spore was pretty bad.

  • 01.11.2012 6:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone.
This is the thinnest justification for this that exists, and it's one that is always trotted out.

If something needs to be locked, it is active, therefore it is already pretty close to the top.
Bumping is relatively inconsequential, particularly when it is the last bump. You've got one of two scenarios:
-1)The forum is so active the locked thread disappears in minutes (e.g. the flood, where the front page covers 10 minutes of activity)
-2) The forum is so inactive no one gives a -blam!- about one extra thread on the front page (e.g. every other forum.)

Why don't you just say something sensible like

"Actually, that's a lot of extra work for us, and, you know, we like to not make things difficult for ourselves. Most locks are pretty obvious for all involved, and when they're not those that need to be notified usually are, so we just leave it at that, but thanks for the suggestion"

rather than absolute nonsense suggesting you're doing everyone a service by not posting.

Though that last idea might have merit in certain circumstances.

  • 01.11.2012 6:57 PM PDT

I've found that, in off-topic groups, if you don't take a hard line early on, it gets very difficult to maintain limits when users want more freedom than is reasonable. The whole "good cop, bad cop" thing actually works wonders. Although it is strange when you have to change from being good cop and become the bad cop. You're remembered as somebody who hates everything outside your interests.

People who have been in the Coup d'Bungie group for at least a year should know exactly what I'm talking about.

  • 01.11.2012 10:51 PM PDT

Gamers Anon

Achronos: And what's this about a "design team" I've been hearing? Apparently stosh is so awesome he's now considered a "team".

Why not a drop-down menu of sorts that when you do lock a thread it prompts you to select a reason for locking and posts that reason in the OP. So for example if the thread is off-topic then have an option to insert a message that says something along the lines of "Off-topic discussion.".
Posted by: Yoozel
If we replied to every topic we locked then all of the locked topics would be bumped to the top of the forum and would be a constant eyesore for everyone. If you're really that interested, message a moderator. [/quote]

  • 01.11.2012 11:31 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

I only use the b.net forums and waypoint forums. I'm okay with b.nets moderation while I think waypoint is extremely strict, confusing and unhelpful.

  • 01.12.2012 12:05 AM PDT

Does anyone even read these?

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Are you serious or just playing devil's advocate? I don't want to believe you're truthfully sitting on the website of a software developer acting indignant and mocking others about the prohibition of discussion of software piracy, but if you are, you need to rethink your position.

And you actually dared to bring up free speech. Jesus you're brave. Talk about "derpity derp."
Are we not allowed to discuss the legalities of piracy? It is an issue that concerns pretty much everyone that uses the internet. I don't mean discussion like "I just downloaded this torrent and what do you guys think about it?" I mean more like news articles and the current stance on piracy.

I'm just not sure as to what length we can discuss piracy.

[Edited on 01.12.2012 1:21 AM PST]

  • 01.12.2012 1:19 AM PDT

Posted by: BadBall3r47
I'm just not sure as to what length we can discuss piracy.
The apparent position appears to be none at all, and bugger anyone who wants to talk about the Somalian job market.

EDIT: Not so sure it was that person who said it so removed.

[Edited on 01.12.2012 3:12 AM PST]

  • 01.12.2012 2:00 AM PDT

READ IT.

I won the Star. With this on Week 18.

Honestly, I do not care how moderators personally moderate, as long as they keep to the general guidelines/rules and agreements of being a moderator that is set by Achronos and Bungie.net Team and do not abuse their powers. It might seem they do to some people, but if they were, they wouldn't exactly be moderators anymore, now would they?

Moderating isn't some cruise on the highway either, you have to do your best to remain neutral, and make sure you warn/ban the right people... Keep calm and focused. I wonder if they have had problems in the past with Ninjas who are super stressed about something that has nothing to do with the Bungie.net, take it out on some people who may have done something that was only worth a warning, and just banned them instead.

It might not be a common scenario, but it just seems plausible to me.

  • 01.12.2012 2:22 AM PDT

There comes a time in every mans life... and that time is not now.

Posted by: BadBall3r47
I'm just not sure as to what length we can discuss piracy.

I would go with not at all, considering Recons 'perma ban on sight' rule about piracy. That said, i can't recall ever seeing a thread discussing piracy.



[Edited on 01.12.2012 2:32 AM PST]

  • 01.12.2012 2:29 AM PDT

READ IT.

I won the Star. With this on Week 18.


Posted by: BadBall3r47
I'm just not sure as to what length we can discuss piracy.

It's illegal... discussing it will cause major problems.

  • 01.12.2012 2:34 AM PDT

Gamers Anon

Achronos: And what's this about a "design team" I've been hearing? Apparently stosh is so awesome he's now considered a "team".

Piracy is illegal but discussion of it is not.
Posted by: Alex the Awesome

Posted by: BadBall3r47
I'm just not sure as to what length we can discuss piracy.

It's illegal... discussing it will cause major problems.

  • 01.12.2012 2:57 AM PDT

Posted by: Dustin 6047
Troll confirmed. I never even insulted you

Posted by: Dustin 6047
OP - You're a dumbass with the reading comprehension skills of a second grader.


Can someone tell me what's wrong with these two, this made me LOL hard.

Bnet's forum moderation is pretty decent compared to other gaming forums. Example: League of Legends Forum

User has a different opinion than a mod or an employee: Gets banned.

User agrees with mod or employees: Doesn't get banned.

User provides a good review that includes the flaws, how to fix them, how to regulate the game to prevent hackers, how to fix a glitch and basically fix the game: Not only will he get booed by the rest of the gaming community and hazed, the employees or mods will ban the user and praise everyone else that insulted said user.

LoL forums doesn't give you a reason on why they're banning you. They just ban you.

So, compared to websites like that and Bnet, I'd say Bnet is pretty decent in moderating.

  • 01.12.2012 3:08 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: coolmike699
. . . The absolute most that discussing, encouraging, or enabling "real crimes" on this site would bring is a subpoena. There's no laws against discussing, instructing on, or encouraging crime (it's the First Amendment) . . .
Posted by: chubbz
The discussion of piracy is not illegal. That would be an infringement on free speech . . .
Bringing up first amendment rights on Bungie always makes me chuckle a little. For a reminder, since we obviously haven't read it in a while, it says:Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.See the very first word? "Congress?" Congress shall make no law . . . . So unless Bungie = Congress, it's 100% irrelevant to the conversation.

I mean, I guess you could write enough Bungie employees in to at least take over the Senate if they were eligible to run in a bunch of different districts and try to get them to push through some legislation banning idlers, but I'm sure that'd be pretty controversial.

  • 01.12.2012 4:23 AM PDT