Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Ultimate Weapon Discussion Thread...
  • Subject: The Ultimate Weapon Discussion Thread...
Subject: The Ultimate Weapon Discussion Thread...
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

"If I didn't know you better, I'd say............who the -blam!- are you?"

OMG OMG OMG

Ok, initial excitement out of the way, I have decided to throw my 2 cents into the bag and let you know my hopes and dreams for combat, weapons and balancing for Halo 3.

Please let it be known that I am neither stating fact nor expressing my demands for Bungie, I am just getting a big old friendly debate going.

I know there are multiple threads going on at this point in time, but I feel that the amount of information and ideas that I have had thinking about game dynamics and weapon balance that I needed to make my own thread!!

Please read through all my ideas and then start to add your own. What do you hope to see, what do you expect to see, what do you hope they change. It can be single player or multiplayer, but keep it about the combat and NOT the plotlines and characters.

Enjoy my ideas, I have been jotting these down for months!!


Weapons:

I am a big fan of having a small amount of guns (a'la Halo 1) that all serve a distinct and equally useable purpose, thus there is no "real" power weapons. Each weapon has a strength and each weapon has a weakness. To be truly useful in combat, you need to pick your weapon combinations wisely.

I don't want to see Bungie take a backwards step with dual-wielding and I doubt they will, but I would like to see EVERY SINGLE GUN be a balanced single-wield weapon first and foremost. I believe dual-wielding should be a play-style choice rather than a necessity with certain guns (SMG, Magnum, Needler etc) as they were in Halo 2. So below is my idea for the weapon rosta in Halo 3 and their use as SINGLE-WIELD weapons. I shall cover my ideas for dual-wielding further down:

Battle Rifle:

Single Wield Only.
Clip Size = 18.
Reserve Size = 72 (in multiplayer you start with 72 rounds overall, 18 in clip, 54 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Semi-Automatic, single round fire in standard and 2 x zoom, fires marginally slower than the Halo 1 pistol (1-2 rounds per second).
Damage Rate = Kills in 3 shots if the final shot is to the head. Weapon can acquire headshots.

For all intents and purposes, the BR is the Halo 1 pistol but with a Rifle graphic. It could fire slightly slower to balance it's stopping power. Further balance will come from the increased effectiveness of other guns, please read on.

Pistol:

Dual-Wieldable.
Clip Size = 12.
Reserve Size = 60 (in multiplayer you start with 60 rounds overall, 12 in clip, 48 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Semi-Automatic, single round fire, fires at the same rate as the BR but has only half the range and no scoping ability.
Damage Rate = Kills in 3 shots if the final shot is to the head. Weapon can acquire headshots.

The Pistol is the "dual-wieldable" version of the Battle Rifle. It acts in a very similar fashion, has the same stopping power but has no scope and a shorter functional range. So when a player is deciding what weapons to carry, they decide "do I want to be able to dual wield at some point or not?" This will determine if the person carries the BR or the Pistol NOT the weapon itself as they are very similar in their use and power.

Covenant Carbine:

Single Wield Only.
Clip Size = 18.
Reserve Size = 72 (in multiplayer you start with 72 rounds overall, 18 in clip, 54 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Semi-Automatic, single round fire in standard and 2 x zoom, fires at twice the rate of the Battle Rifle (4 rounds per second).
Damage Rate = Kills in 6 shots if the final shot is to the head. Weapon can acquire headshots.

This is the Covenant version of the BR and only separates itself from the human form in it's increased fire rate and reduced damage per shot, but to all intents and purposes, it should be of exact equal power to the BR and Pistol.

Plasma Pistol:

Dual-Wieladable.
Clip Size = 100 units of charge. Primary fire uses 2 - 3 units per shot. Overcharge uses 25 units per bolt.
Reserve Size = n/a
Firing Rate = Semi-Automatic, single round fire. Can be fired as fast as the wielder can pull the trigger.
Damage Rate = Removes shields with 4 primary shots or 1 Overcharge bolt. Removes health with a further 8 primary shots or 2 more Overcharge bolts. Weapon cannot acquire headshots.

The Pistol returns to it's former glory. It can be fired extremely fast in primary mode. This mode also has the "sticky" effect from Halo 1, where the player being shot will have a reduced ability to move and turn while being shot. The overcharge bolt locks on like a Needler shard, good in tight quarters, but dodgable if the opponent strafes.

Plasma Rifle:

Dual-Wieldable.
Clip Size = 100 units of charge. Primary fire uses 2 - 3 units per shot. Rifle overheats after 3 - 4 seconds of continuous fire. This freezes the gun as before
Reserve Size = n/a
Firing Rate = Automatic fire rate, bullets travel slightly faster than the current Halo 2 version.
Damage Rate = Removes shields in 6 rounds. Weapon causes the same sticking effect as in Halo 1. Weapon can remove health, but it is difficult due to the overheating nature of sustained fire. Requires 10ish rounds to remove health. Weapon cannot acquire headshots.

The plasma Rifle is relatively unchanged. It has it's freeze effect back and it's bullets move faster, making it more useable at mid-range, but it overheats much quicker and runs out of ammo faster (whoever ran out of ammo for this gun in Halo 2? It never happened.)

Assault Rifle:

Single Wield Only.
Clip Size = 60.
Reserve Size = 300 (in multiplayer you start with 300 rounds overall, 60 in clip, 240 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Automatic fire in standard and 2 x zoom, with an extended effective range (similar but slightly shorter than the BR and Carbine).
Damage Rate = Removes shields with 16 rounds and removes health in 6. The weapon cannot acquire headshots.

This weapon is fairly unchanged from the Halo 1 version. It has an extended effective range and the reticle turns red at the same distance as the BR and Carbine to allow fluid aiming. But, it is not dual-wieldable. The Assault Rifle has the ability to "disrupt" the aiming reticle of the opponent. Sustained fire from the Assault Rifle will cause the aiming reticle of the opponent to jiggle about. This causes headshots to become extremely difficult and players may find it necessary to switch to body shots when faced with an opponent using an Assault Rifle against them.

SMG:

Dual-Wieldable.
Clip Size = 60.
Reserve Size = 300 (in multiplayer you start with 300 rounds overall, 60 in clip, 240 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Same as Assualt Rifle. No zoom function, no extended range.
Damage Rate = Same as the Assault Rifle, but player needs to be at a closer range. Weapon cannot acquire headshots.

The SMG is the dual-wieldable version of the Assault Rifle. It therefore operates and functions exactly the same as the Assault Rifle but with lack of a zoom and a shorter range to compensate for the ability to dual-wield if preferred.

Sniper Rifle / Beam Rifle:

Unchanged. Just remember, now that the Assault Rifle and SMG have the ability to disrupt aiming reticles, no-scoping will be much harder to pull off. The increased range of all the mid-range guns will also lessen the power of the Sniper Rifles.

Rocket Launcher:

Unchanged. Maybe, remove the tracking ability?

Shotgun:

Single Wield Only.
Clip Size = 12.
Reserve Size = 60 (in multiplayer you start with 36 rounds overall, 12 in clip, 24 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Same as Halo 1 and Halo 2.
Damage Rate = Increased consistency so that it's not a lottery when you fire this thing. I think the consistency and range of the Shotgun from Halo 1 is fine. Weapon cannot acquire headshots.

Brute Shot:

Single Wield Only.
Clip Size = 4.
Reserve Size = 24 (in multiplayer you start with 24 rounds overall, 4 in clip, 20 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Semi-Automatic, single round fire. Rate and range unchanged.
Damage Rate = Kills in 2 shots if direct hits. Grenades will be standard frag grenades. Weapon cannot acquire headshots.

Needler:

Dual-Wieldable.
Clip Size = 20.
Reserve Size = 100 (in multiplayer you start with 100 rounds overall, 20 in clip, 80 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Automatic fire, the amount of needles required to initiate an explosion is unchanged, but the speed at which the needles travel is increased to make dodging the needles slightly harder. Shortened homing range.
Damage Rate = n/a. Weapon cannot acquire headshots.

The Needler will be the hardest weapon to balance. It NEEDS to be single-wieldable but also not overpowered in a dual-wield. Perhaps this is where I would bring in a new weapon, a needler that is not dual-wieldable.

Needler Rifle: NEW WEAPON!!!

Single Wield Only.
Clip Size = 20.
Reserve Size = 100 (in multiplayer you start with 100 rounds overall, 20 in clip, 80 in reserve).
Firing Rate = Automatic, there is no super explosion regardless of the amount of needles in the target, each needle causes a great deal of damage as it pops but with minimal homing ability. Range is the same as the Assault Rifle.
Damage Rate = Kills in 10 needles. Weapon cannot acquire headshots.

I think this could be an awesome weapon. It would act as a great support weapon and the perfect counter to the "aim disrupt" effect of the upgraded AR and SMG. Being peppered with SMG fire as you try to line up a snipe? Bust out the Needler Rifle to quell the threat.

Grenades:

As in Halo 1.



Right, onto Dual-Wielding...

  • 05.13.2006 5:14 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

"If I didn't know you better, I'd say............who the -blam!- are you?"

Dual-Wielding

Ok. Now that ALL the guns are perfectly balanced as single-wieldable weapons, dual-wielding them would be highly overpowered, so here is my ideas for keeping it a balanced method of play.

Sticky Reticle:

Now first off, this is NOT auto-aim, this is just the distance at which the reticle will turn red and "stick" to the target slightly.

When a gun is single wielded, this range is longer. Sniper Rifles and Rockets have the longest range (Snipers in 10 x zoom would have infinite range I reckon). The BR, Carbine, AR and Needler Rifle would all have a middle distance sticky reticle, increased if they employ their 2 x zoom. Dual wieldable guns have an even shorter "red reticle" range, similar to the SMG range in Halo 2 at the moment.

When a player decides to switch to dual-wielding, this "sticky reticle" effect is shortened to the range of the Halo 2 slotgun, i.e. close range only. This will mean that if you wish to dual-wield, you will have to manually aim the reticle with very little assist what-so-ever or limit it's uses to close range combat only.

Dual-Wield Mechanics

This is my personal favourite of my ideas.
To dual-wield, the player must first pick up a dual-wieldable gun in both weapon slots. If you have a BR in one slot, you can't dual-wield. If you like dual-wielding, you will have to pick up a Pistol instead.

Ok, so you have a Pistol in your primary slot and an SMG in your secondary slot. You can switch between the 2 guns as usual, by tapping "Y" or you can switch to dual-wielding by holding "Y". The Chief would simply keep the Primary gun out, while lifting the gun in the Secondary slot to join it. It's simplicity is what I love about it. You can then switch out of dual-wielding at any time by holding down "Y" again, returning you to your Primary gun again. What do you think heh?

If Dual-wielding still seems overpowered, it could be further weakened by forcing you to switch to single-wielding before you can reload each gun. This would free up the "X" button during dual-wielding to perform some other function (swap your guns over to the opposite hand?. I'm sure Bungie could come up with something super cool!!!)

Grenades would be unusable during a dual-wield as they are now, but I would definitely like to playtest this game with melees available, maybe weakened somewhat as you are performing a melee with one hand rather than 2.

In my opinion, this would make DW'ing much more fun and instantaneous. It would make it less of a commitment and players could switch in and out of DW'ing at will, rather than having to decide whether to DW or not while stood on a gun that is on the ground.

If Bungie play around with the animations of drawing out and holstering the guns, the issue of swapping in and out of single wield guns or DW'ing to avoid the swapping animations could become a real tactical decision. Do I DW a PP and a human Pistol, struggling with decreased range and no reload? Or do I switch back and forth from PP to BR single-wielding and put up with the longer animations involved with swapping weapons (which I also think should be lengthened). OR, do I single wield the PP and switch to the human pistol? Yes, it's not as effective as the BR but it gives me the option to DW if I need to at a later moment. I get really excited just thinking about it!

Right, I think I'm done. Whew, that was the longest thread I have ever done...

I can't wait for 2007. Maybe I can put myself into cryogenic sleep till then...?



  • 05.13.2006 5:14 AM PDT
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well i got one weapon they should add, i unfortuantly isnt that smart as you (for real, when i read your stuff, i had the weapons actual picture) so ill just tell what i think should be in halo 3 for the weapon.
A human sord:
I mean cmon ppl you cant expect me to have only a covi sord.
An upgrade pistol:
Well, i like the halo 1 pistol, its just better and cooler. For some reason the halo2 one is to ... you know what i mean.
Goggles:
I mean a better scope then the sniper, but you cant shoot with it.
An impoved assualt rifle li3k in the trailer,
and yeah thats basicly it

  • 05.13.2006 5:21 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

I am...whimsical today.

I think a knife, or a bayonete would be better. A massive Claymore would be a little Archaic :P

  • 05.13.2006 5:35 AM PDT
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WEAPONS

MA55B Combat Rifle
ammo: 13 mm low explosive rounds.
magazine: 45 rounds.
attachments: scope.
scope: night vision.
zoom: none(close range), 4x(medium range) and 10x (long range).
firing rate: single shot, 3 round burst or automatic.
shot to kill: 15 shots with automatic at close range.
4 bursts with 3 round burst at close or medium range.
10 shots with single shot at close, medium or long range.
description: back like a battle rifle,front like an assualt rifle and a br scope.

Brute Plasma Shot
brute shot that shoots plasma grenades.

Needler Grenade
grenade that sends explosive needles everywere.



[Edited on 5/13/2006]

  • 05.13.2006 5:38 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

"If I didn't know you better, I'd say............who the -blam!- are you?"

Thanks for the compliment xploded.

I don't want any guns to "disappear". I want EVERY gun to make an appearance in Halo 3. I just think that a few things will need to be changed to give each gun a feeling of it's own.

This is why I think the AR should not be dual-wieldable but have a better range than the SMG. The SMG does the same amount of damage, but is designed for closer range combat and has the ability to be dual-wielded.

Same with the Human Pistol and the BR. I think the BR should not be dual-wieldable. I think it should fire single shots (to make it harder to achieve headshots) and have a zoom function. The Pistol should be just as powerful as the BR but have a reduced range to balance it out as it can be dual-wielded.

The weapons are similar, but serve a purpose. If you read my ideas for balancing dual-wielding, you will see that although each weapon is perfectly useful as a single-wield weapon, the changes to the dynamics of dual-wielding stop them from being overpowered.

What do you think?


[Edited on 5/13/2006]

  • 05.13.2006 5:40 AM PDT
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I agree with the ideas of making the BR stronger, but it shold stay in burst mode.
The pistol needs to be stronger, but not as strong as in Halo1, because then everyone will
abandon all the other weapons, which I saw while playing halo1 multiplayer.
The AR is still my favorite weapon, and yes, It should replace the smg.

I have been thinking about a cool new weapon and thought that a plasma crossbow(covie only) would be awesome! Instead of throwing plasma grenades why not launch them?
The crossbows primary weapon could be a big shard like a needler, except incinerate instead of explode! It would have some sort of covie optical zoom,maybe 2X, and have 10 shards to a clip(I am aware that real crossbows don't have clips) with 40 shards in reserve.

I also thought it might be cool to have a stealth mission where you could affix silencers to your (Human) weapons.

Keep posting these are great ideas!

  • 05.13.2006 6:09 AM PDT

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Please use the existing Halo 3 Weapons Ideas Thread - there is a link in the Threads of Interest Sticky.

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  • 05.13.2006 6:10 AM PDT