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  • Subject: Bungie's Position on SOPA
Subject: Bungie's Position on SOPA

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"


Posted by: Cpl Crosseyes

Posted by: prometheus25

Posted by: Cpl Crosseyes
SOPA isn't a good step but it's inevitable that the first step to bringing some order and accountability to the average joe on the internet will be met with huge backlash.

People don't like to be held accountable for their actions on the internet and while SOPA puts far too much accountability on sites like Youtube that are threatened the most and puts the dominant power on companies with armies of lawyers that'll always buy their way out of anything we'll never be able to put accountability on the pirates themselves until we crack down on the anonymity on the internet. Something that won't go over well, but will be needed eventually.


The problem is, SOPA, and other such concepts, go against the free market model that our economy is built on. People don't pirate because they're evil, it is because they don't see the products they take as being worth the prices charged for them. That's the checks and balances system built into an open market economy. By allowing the government to step in on this situation, it is only setting a precedent that facilitates fat-wallet corporations to pass binding legislature to protect their investments, rather than having to sit down at a board meeting and discuss why your consumers feel that you are charging too much.

SOPA is the corporate equivalent of a child holding his breath until his mother buys him candy at the checkout line.

The most irritating part I find in this whole fiasco is just the shear effort and attention SOPA is getting. What about Social Security? The defense budget? Or how about pharmaceutical companies; they have an absolute monopoly on the drugs that are produced in this country, a monopoly worse than Microsoft had when it received an anti-trust lawsuit. I find it asinine that our country gets so worked up over entertainment of all things.
I agree. For fear of getting into other connected political things we probably shouldn't talk about too much stuff here. But I will say that I would trust my government any day before a corporation. And that the problem nowadays is the corporations buying out the government to make them too closely related.

Makes the occupy Wall Street look like a better and better movement in my eyes. They've got the right problem nailed down... if no idea what to do about it.


I didn't mean to get all ranty there. The thing is, our generation has the advantage. Things might suck for a while if SOPA passes, but in ten or fifteen years there will be a regime change in the government and in corporations. Whenever I get into a heated argument over politics with my elders, I can't lose, because I know that I will just outlive them and change what I want.

  • 01.14.2012 1:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Economics
Free from accountability, why not break into the abandoned Best Buy and steal yourself a 60" LCD?
Dohoho, you're not seriously comparing physical theft to virtual piracy are you? Cripes.

  • 01.14.2012 2:07 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: Economics

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Economics
Free from accountability, why not break into the abandoned Best Buy and steal yourself a 60" LCD?
Dohoho, you're not seriously comparing physical theft to virtual piracy are you? Cripes.

Certainly I am. Both are theft.

Yes, a difference between a television and a song is input costs. Yes, one particular pirate may not have bought a song otherwise, and there is no direct loss resulting from stealing that song for the company - the record company also loses nothing on that theft as it didn't spend any money to "build" that one particular song.

But there is a moral hazard problem. When people who otherwise would have paid for music see others getting away with piracy, they are going to take up piracy. Why pay a dollar a song, which he might have willingly paid, when you can steal it with no penalty? In that case, the label does in fact lose a sale. And that is the problem.

A better comparison would be:

Stealing a Song V.S. Stealing a Pencil
One is much more highly demonized, don't you think? Do people ever care about all the money Bic could lose in pencil sales? No. They do not. There is no Stop Pencil Piracy Act. There is, however, SOPA.

[Edited on 01.14.2012 2:14 PM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 2:13 PM PDT

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Got a question, comment, or concern? PM me.

I don't see anything wrong with piracy as long as it isn't a game/music and you aren't making money off it.


Just my 2 cents though

  • 01.14.2012 2:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Economics
Why pay a dollar a song, which he might have willingly paid, when you can steal it with no penalty?
Isn't the free market wonderful?

Though you're being disingenuous here. I don't even have to steal it. As has been pointed out numerous times, sites like spotify, grooveshark, last.fm and youtube provide almost exactly the same free service, but perfectly legally.

We aren't just talking about purchase vs piracy here, we're talking about purchase vs music as a service vs piracy. Labels are holding back music as a service, and it is seriously to the detriment of their industry; just look how much Spotify had to gut their business model to get clearance to operate in the US.

Same thing happened with Viacom and Youtube. Viacom abused youtube as a marketing tool, uploaded their content en masse, but still sued youtube for an extortionate amount of money, attempting to wrangle every user's personal data and youtube's entire source code in the process.

It was only by ignoring copyright law entirely and staying under the radar until they were too big to be brought down that YouTube got where it is today; a key source of revenues for all the players that would have happily killed it in its infancy.

Copyright law is not only archaic, it's routinely abused. It needs reforming in the direction of open communication, not a locked down, corporate-only internet.

And that is the problem.It's only a problem if you think the label deserves the money. Most people don't, so most people don't care. They don't see it as a problem, they see it as an evolution of the market.

We're no longer reliant on physically moving lumps of paper, plastic or aluminium around to communicate, we have an entirely new medium, with nearly zero costs. That has resulted in a significant change to the supply side of the model; a shift right on a simple s/d diagram for the market. It doesn't matter whether you think this should be the case, it is the case, and using government intervention to drag the market back to the mid 80s is luddism of the worst kind.

A record company cannot expect to continue on with its same old business model of 100% ownership of track and artist and charging every one every time they play it, regardless of how much value they've actually brought to the equation.

Take the games industry, for example. First and foremost, games shifted focus from PCs to consoles; less susceptible to piracy and with a stronger lock in. Secondly, all major publishers now rely on digital distribution and drm of some form, either for everything on the PC, or just DLC on the consoles. We're provided subscription-basis statistics services, hosting and networking. Things we never got before.

Even the film industry has attempted to advance itself by pushing 3D and imax.

But what has the music industry done? Nothing. The sooner the labels die, the better. They own everything about music except the bit that has actual value: live performances. Unless they start innovating to keep up with the rest of society, to add some actual value to their products, to develop quality artists rather than mass-produce factory crap and then protecting them with archaic copyright laws, they'll die soon.

[Edited on 01.14.2012 2:29 PM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 2:22 PM PDT

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I'm with you all the way Bungie <7

  • 01.14.2012 2:24 PM PDT


Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Economics
Why pay a dollar a song, which he might have willingly paid, when you can steal it with no penalty?
Isn't the free market wonderful?

And that is the problem.It's only a problem if you think the label deserves the money. Most people don't, so most people don't care. They don't see it as a problem, they see it as an evolution of the market.

We're no longer reliant on physically moving lumps of paper, plastic or aluminium around to communicate, we have an entirely new medium, with nearly zero costs. That has resulted in a significant change to the supply side of the model; a -blam!- right on a simple s/d diagram for the market. It doesn't matter whether you think this should be the case, it is the case, and using government intervention to drag the market back to the mid 80s is luddism of the worst kind.

A record company cannot expect to continue on with its same old business model of 100% ownership of track and artist and charging every one every time they play it, regardless of how much value they've actually brought to the equation.

Take the games industry, for example. First and foremost, games shifted focus from PCs to consoles; less susceptible to piracy and with a stronger lock in. Secondly, all major publishers now rely on digital distribution and drm of some form, either for everything on the PC, or just DLC on the consoles. We're provided subscription-basis statistics services, hosting and networking. Things we never got before.

Even the film industry has attempted to advance itself by pushing 3D and imax.

But what has the music industry done? Nothing. The sooner the labels die, the better. They own everything about music except the bit that has actual value: live performances. Unless they start innovating to keep up with the rest of society, to add some actual value to their products, to develop quality artists rather than mass-produce factory crap and then protect them with archaic copyright laws, they'll die soon.


The word "deserve" has no relevance here. It dosen't matter what someone "deserves". Nor does your opinion on the quality of their product matter. What matters is what they have.

The music industry seems like it's pretty caught up to me. I can open iTunes, buy songs, and listen to them. I don't see what other innovation is needed. People who pirate music pirate music they like, so they wouldn't pay for it anyway.

  • 01.14.2012 2:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: coolmike699
The word "deserve" has no relevance here. It dosen't matter what someone "deserves". Nor does your opinion on the quality of their product matter. What matters is what they have.
The opinion of the general public on the quality of their product, i.e. what they "deserve" is all that matters here. A market is not a seller forcing everyone to buy his product by abuse, it is a buyer and a seller coming to an equitable decision.

I don't see what other innovation is needed.I edited some more in with regard to their current activities after you'd quoted me. The music industry, and to a lesser extent the film (though more the television) industry, is still hell-bent on destroying anyone innovating in their sector. Spotify is the best recent example, with Youtube a close second.

It's not a matter of whether you think more innovation is needed, it's whether their model is actually working. As long as people aren't buying their product, the simple fact is their product isn't worth buying. End of discussion. If it wasn't for Gaga, Adele and Bubble, the album market would yet again have contracted, and by quite a chunk, so to say they've caught up with the public is silly.

We're still not buying what they want to sell. They still need to change, and instead choosing to hide behind draconian laws is every kind of wrong.

[Edited on 01.14.2012 2:41 PM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 2:33 PM PDT

The sound of iron shocks is stuck in my head, The thunder of the drums dictates
The rhythm of the falls, the number of dead's the rising of the horns, ahead
From the dawn of time to the end of days I will have to run, away
I want to feel the pain and the bitter taste of the blood on my lips, again

Interesting

  • 01.14.2012 2:35 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Posted by: Destiny 7
Bungie <3


Bungie is sticking it to the man.

Old Skool.

Nice.

  • 01.14.2012 3:26 PM PDT

What's up with all the -blam!-ing negativity?
Stop it.

Member of KOTOR

Keer-Meet
God of Destruction

Does SOPA affect me? Considering that I'm Irish?


P.S.- you can post pictures. \0/

  • 01.14.2012 3:40 PM PDT
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So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us.

-Gandalf

Thank you Bungie.

  • 01.14.2012 4:03 PM PDT

GT: j0sh291
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-"Mutiny. And what fate befalls mutineers? I think we know the answer to that, don't we? Mutineers...HANG!!!"

Twitter:@j0sh291
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SOPA is just wrong. Bungie you are doing good on not supporting it.

[Edited on 01.14.2012 4:13 PM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 4:12 PM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!

American Government, SOPA is bad and you should feel bad!

  • 01.14.2012 4:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Economics
The real culprit here are used music stores. None of those sales go to the artist.

  • 01.14.2012 4:32 PM PDT

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Some threads will get posts before others and it is the duty of the Leadership to ensure that posts are made that best suit the public welfare.

"heh"

Posted by: komark
Posted by: Economics
The real culprit here are used music stores. None of those sales go to the artist.
Name the last time you've ever seen one of those.

  • 01.14.2012 4:33 PM PDT
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Yesterday, at the mall. A store called FYE
Then there's a few local stores that also do that.
Posted by: the squee masta
Posted by: komark
Posted by: Economics
The real culprit here are used music stores. None of those sales go to the artist.
Name the last time you've ever seen one of those.

  • 01.14.2012 4:34 PM PDT

To Make Posts is Glorious

Some threads will get posts before others and it is the duty of the Leadership to ensure that posts are made that best suit the public welfare.

"heh"

Posted by: komark
Yesterday, at the mall. A store called FYE
Then there's a few local stores that also do that.
Well I wouldn't go as far as to call them the "real culprit(s)". They're largely irrelevant.

  • 01.14.2012 4:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: the squee masta
Posted by: komark
Yesterday, at the mall. A store called FYE
Then there's a few local stores that also do that.
Well I wouldn't go as far as to call them the "real culprit(s)". They're largely irrelevant.
I wasn't trying to be too serious, I just thought that it raised an interesting point. Are these stores just as guilty as pirates? I mean, those purchases don't go to the record industry or the artists.

  • 01.14.2012 4:37 PM PDT

To Make Posts is Glorious

Some threads will get posts before others and it is the duty of the Leadership to ensure that posts are made that best suit the public welfare.

"heh"

Posted by: komark
I wasn't trying to be too serious, I just thought that it raised an interesting point. Are these stores just as guilty as pirates? I mean, those purchases don't go to the record industry or the artists.
If anything they're more guilty. They're making money.

  • 01.14.2012 4:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: the squee masta
Posted by: komark
I wasn't trying to be too serious, I just thought that it raised an interesting point. Are these stores just as guilty as pirates? I mean, those purchases don't go to the record industry or the artists.
If anything they're more guilty. They're making money.
That's interesting. So this bill could potentially shut down these companies that sell used CD's, DVD's, Games, etc. that'd layoff a few hundred thousand people I'd imagine.

  • 01.14.2012 4:42 PM PDT