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This topic has moved here: Subject: Bungie's Position on SOPA
  • Subject: Bungie's Position on SOPA

To Make Posts is Glorious

Some threads will get posts before others and it is the duty of the Leadership to ensure that posts are made that best suit the public welfare.

"heh"

Posted by: komark
That's interesting. So this bill could potentially shut down these companies that sell used CD's, DVD's, Games, etc. that'd layoff a few hundred thousand people I'd imagine.
No. That's not on the internet. Also, a few hundred thousand? Please.

  • 01.14.2012 5:17 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: the squee masta
Posted by: komark
That's interesting. So this bill could potentially shut down these companies that sell used CD's, DVD's, Games, etc. that'd layoff a few hundred thousand people I'd imagine.
No. That's not on the internet. Also, a few hundred thousand? Please.
Exactly. There are VERY few shops that exclusively sell CD's. Most are a Borders or Barnes and Noble or Target or Wal Mart that have a small section for them.

  • 01.14.2012 5:40 PM PDT

I'm okay with Bungie being against SOPA but I really hate the fact that this thread has been hijacked by people who are desperately trying to justify the fact that they illegally download music, and are trying to twist Bungie's support against SOPA into some sort of all-inclusive support for all forms of piracy.

Face it, if games were pirated as much and as easily as music is nowadays, Bungie would be pretty pissed off that their next million dollar game that they spent tons of time and effort on was downloaded and stolen by a group of jackasses who think they're entitled to having everything free because "that's how the free-market economy works."

Ignoring the fact that a free-market economy never works and the only people who think otherwise are affiliated with the Tea Party or just simply are ignorant and never took Economics 101, that has to be the most BS excuse I've heard in a long time.

Did any of you even read Urk's post?

Here is the last line:


Just like online piracy, that would be downright criminal.


So please, shut the hell up about piracy already.

[Edited on 01.14.2012 7:10 PM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 7:08 PM PDT
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Why are you reading my signature? Who actually opens these things and reads them!

And as always, SEND ME A PM. Please. Or really bad things will happen to you.

Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Ignoring the fact that a free-market economy never works and the only people who think otherwise are affiliated with the Tea Party or just simply are ignorant and never took Economics 101, that has to be the most BS excuse I've heard in a long time.

That's simply just false.

  • 01.14.2012 7:27 PM PDT


Posted by: Cranium Crater
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Ignoring the fact that a free-market economy never works and the only people who think otherwise are affiliated with the Tea Party or just simply are ignorant and never took Economics 101, that has to be the most BS excuse I've heard in a long time.

That's simply just false.


"Hey guys a free market system sounds good. Let's implement it."

*Flash forward*
>No environmental regulations - say goodbye to good, clean air
>No labor laws - say goodbye to your standard of living
>No competition bureau or any other organization to prevent monopolies from forming - lol have fun with that

Even Adam Smith was against free-market. He recognized it as an impractical ideal.

Say, you wouldn't happen to be Republican, would you?

  • 01.14.2012 7:46 PM PDT

I LOVE HALO! Better than any other game.

But I love Halo 3 and Combat Evolved - never got the chance to play Halo 2 :(

SOPA is garbage.

  • 01.14.2012 7:50 PM PDT


Posted by: Drowsy Demon

>No environmental regulations - say goodbye to good, clean air
>No labor laws - say goodbye to your standard of living
>No competition bureau or any other organization to prevent monopolies from forming - lol have fun with that

wtf

  • 01.14.2012 7:57 PM PDT


Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

>No environmental regulations - say goodbye to good, clean air
>No labor laws - say goodbye to your standard of living
>No competition bureau or any other organization to prevent monopolies from forming - lol have fun with that

wtf


Yes dear?

  • 01.14.2012 7:57 PM PDT
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Why are you reading my signature? Who actually opens these things and reads them!

And as always, SEND ME A PM. Please. Or really bad things will happen to you.

Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Posted by: Cranium Crater
Posted by: Drowsy Demon
Ignoring the fact that a free-market economy never works and the only people who think otherwise are affiliated with the Tea Party or just simply are ignorant and never took Economics 101, that has to be the most BS excuse I've heard in a long time.

That's simply just false.

"Hey guys a free market system sounds good. Let's implement it."

*Flash forward*
>No environmental regulations - say goodbye to good, clean air
>No labor laws - say goodbye to your standard of living
>No competition bureau or any other organization to prevent monopolies from forming - lol have fun with that

Even Adam Smith was against free-market. He recognized it as an impractical ideal.

Say, you wouldn't happen to be Republican, would you?

You trust too much. Government control isn't a good thing. The US economy functioned just fine before the government started the invisible hand program.

I wonder if you're aware that the coal companies took it upon themselves to clean their product? That the oil companies are working to refine their fuel. We all share this Earth, even the monolithic oil companies know when they have to fix a problem.

Take a history lesson, labor laws really only affected factories, and if we had no labor laws today most of us would be just fine. Don't work in a factory if you don't want factory conditions.

Funnily enough, monopolies are supposed to be unconstitutional. Ironically, the government you appear to love so much changed that. Who knew?

And no, I am not Republican. I am against anything I think is wrong and currently that does not align with any political parties. It's embarrassing how dependent you are on the government. You seem to have forgotten the chain of power set up by the constitution.

People > State > Federal. If a state government wants labor laws, or environmental control then the people of that state can make it so. And that alone nullifies your argument.

  • 01.14.2012 8:01 PM PDT


Posted by: Drowsy Demon

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

>No environmental regulations - say goodbye to good, clean air
>No labor laws - say goodbye to your standard of living
>No competition bureau or any other organization to prevent monopolies from forming - lol have fun with that

wtf


Yes dear?


You think big government is the way to go, don't you?

  • 01.14.2012 8:05 PM PDT

Key

Okay this is getting super political. And, though the bill itself is political, there's ways to discuss it more directly without getting into discussions on the government as a whole.

  • 01.14.2012 8:08 PM PDT


Posted by: Cranium Crater
You trust too much. Government control isn't a good thing. The US economy functioned just fine before the government started the invisible hand program.


>Government ensuring that we have some basic laws so corporations don't go crazy is bad?

Posted by: Cranium Crater
I wonder if you're aware that the coal companies took it upon themselves to clean their product? That the oil companies are working to refine their fuel. We all share this Earth, even the monolithic oil companies know when they have to fix a problem.


Haha - no. Companies could care less about the environment in a free-market system, where they aren't bound by law to do anything if an accident happens, or if their product just happens to have harmful side-effects. Example: BP oil spill. And that was with a non free-market economy too. Imagine what would happen in a free-market economy if they weren't even supposed to make plans to deal with such scenarios in the first place.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
Take a history lesson, labor laws really only affected factories, and if we had no labor laws today most of us would be just fine. Don't work in a factory if you don't want factory conditions.


My god are you actually serious? As soon as minimum wage is repealed, corporations will start a race to the bottom to see how little money they can use to keep an employee in their business. And they could force their employees to work 72 hours before taking a break, not to mention start using child labour. You're imagining a scenario where choosing a job that has good benefits is actually possible in a world where the government cannot even ensure a basic standard of living.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
Funnily enough, monopolies are supposed to be unconstitutional. Ironically, the government you appear to love so much changed that. Who knew?


I'm not even American, so I cannot validate your claim. You'll have to show me a link to prove your point. However, I must point out that in a free-market system even the Constitution won't mean anything, since the economy is completely and absolutely deregulated. Thus, this point is irrelevant.

Posted by: Cranium Crater
And no, I am not Republican. I am against anything I think is wrong and currently that does not align with any political parties. It's embarrassing how dependent you are on the government. You seem to have forgotten the chain of power set up by the constitution.

People > State > Federal. If a state government wants labor laws, or environmental control then the people of that state can make it so. And that alone nullifies your argument.


"The people of the state can make it so." Really? That sounds like regulation to me.

  • 01.14.2012 8:13 PM PDT

Battle is the most magnificent competition in which a human being can indulge. It brings out all that is best; it removes all that is base. All men are afraid in battle. The coward is the one who lets his fear overcome his sense of duty. Duty is the essence of manhood.
-George S. Patton

The internet always has a way of routing around "damage" no matter how hard people try to stop it, and the approach put forth by these bills is a joke. It's hard to find anyone with technology skills who thinks that they will be effective. Every "blockade" has an easy path around it, and the supposed "anti-circumvention" rule in SOPA will never deal with the more obvious paths around things like DNS blocking (use a different DNS or a perfectly legal foreign VPN system). The private right of action efforts are also mistargeted. They're based on the premise that infringement is done for monetary reasons. It's amusing that just a few years ago, these same industries insisted that music and movie fans never wanted to pay anything any more, but now they're claiming that these same people are paying for cyberlockers all the time? That's simply not credible. And if there's so much money to be made, the studios and labels would be opening their own cyberlockers. Either way, we've watched this game of Whac-a-mole for over a decade. It doesn't work. Every site that is shut down leads to half a dozen new ones that spring up. This is not how you tackle a problem: by making the same mistake made over and over again in the past. So... SOPA & PIPA don't attack the real problem, do nothing to build up the services that do solve the problem, and won't work from a technological standpoint. And that's just if we look at the what these bills are supposed to do. The real fear is the massive collateral damage these bills will have to jobs, the economy and innovation.

[Edited on 01.14.2012 8:16 PM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 8:13 PM PDT

Ah, someone leaked. Now to find the leak and.... plug it.
With justice.

I use coup 5
Never Played halo 1 = Invalid opinion
Bloom isn't whats broken, its your idea of what good is and your opinion
Thats like saying uber nerf armor lock because like 20 percent of the community hates it. Oh wait..................

Open political discussion was already called in this tread. As long as its relavent to the discussion. Politics is alowed here and HERE ONLY

  • 01.14.2012 8:13 PM PDT


Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

>No environmental regulations - say goodbye to good, clean air
>No labor laws - say goodbye to your standard of living
>No competition bureau or any other organization to prevent monopolies from forming - lol have fun with that

wtf


Yes dear?


You think big government is the way to go, don't you?


I'm just pointing out all the idiocy that a free-market system creates.

  • 01.14.2012 8:14 PM PDT

Ah, someone leaked. Now to find the leak and.... plug it.
With justice.

I use coup 5
Never Played halo 1 = Invalid opinion
Bloom isn't whats broken, its your idea of what good is and your opinion
Thats like saying uber nerf armor lock because like 20 percent of the community hates it. Oh wait..................

"An unprotected work force is a ready victim"

We need some government regulation

Not like SOPA> thats way to much
But Free market wouldn't work either

  • 01.14.2012 8:18 PM PDT


Posted by: shadow 2648
"An unprotected work force is a ready victim"

We need some government regulation

Not like SOPA - that's way too much
But free market wouldn't work either


Boom. Hit the nail on the head (pardon the cliche term.)

  • 01.14.2012 8:19 PM PDT

Why do people in ship mutinies always ask for "better treatment"? I'd ask for a pinball machine, because with all that rocking back and forth, you'd get a lot of free games.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.


Posted by: Drowsy Demon

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Drowsy Demon

>No environmental regulations - say goodbye to good, clean air
>No labor laws - say goodbye to your standard of living
>No competition bureau or any other organization to prevent monopolies from forming - lol have fun with that

wtf


Yes dear?


You think big government is the way to go, don't you?


I'm just pointing out all the idiocy that a free-market system creates.



Environmental Regulations are good, but not to the extent some people want them.

Labor Laws are necessary of course.

Monopolies are bad.

However, I would like a market that is as close to free-market as possible without the crap it creates.

  • 01.14.2012 8:21 PM PDT

Posted by: Top_Gun_2021
However, I would like a market that is as close to free-market as possible without the crap it creates.


And that's the position most sane people would take. Sadly, some people seem to think that free-market is this sort of magic bullet that will fix everything in the world.

  • 01.14.2012 8:24 PM PDT
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so if this isn't replied to because of the 14 pages of posts here, i might risk being banned and just make another thread about it, but SOPA isn't the only act threatening the internet. PIPA it seems also presents a threat, but less of one and is being slipped under the drama that sopa has created. is bungie aware of PIPA? i'm not sure on the details, of either act, like many of you, but i would like to make known SOPA is not the only act to be fearful of. so is PIPA, which is the Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property Act of 2011.

linky
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_IP_Act

  • 01.14.2012 8:33 PM PDT

Friends before pixels.

I wub woo Bungie.

  • 01.14.2012 8:49 PM PDT

Ah, someone leaked. Now to find the leak and.... plug it.
With justice.

I use coup 5
Never Played halo 1 = Invalid opinion
Bloom isn't whats broken, its your idea of what good is and your opinion
Thats like saying uber nerf armor lock because like 20 percent of the community hates it. Oh wait..................

so if this isn't replied to because of the 14 pages of posts here, i might risk being banned and just make another thread about it, but SOPA isn't the only act threatening the internet. PIPA it seems also presents a threat, but less of one and is being slipped under the drama that sopa has created. is bungie aware of PIPA? i'm not sure on the details, of either act, like many of you, but i would like to make known SOPA is not the only act to be fearful of. so is PIPA, which is the Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property Act of 2011.

Don't worry were onto of that piece of legislation. Nothing escapes the steely eyes of the internet.

  • 01.14.2012 9:32 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: duskypolorbear
so if this isn't replied to because of the 14 pages of posts here, i might risk being banned and just make another thread about it
Bad idea. This thread was explicitly limited in the OP and is not an open door to create new threads about whatever pieces of pending legislation you dislike.

  • 01.14.2012 11:56 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

You misunderstand my explanation, Economics. But let me digress a bit and humor your little...scenario.

You see, it is important that it be made clear that with any object that can be owned, possessed, etc., there will be theft. This can be due to many reasons. The desire to take risks, or the thrill to deprive from others. Some things are just too expensive for certain individuals to afford. Whatever the reason, it will happen, regardless.

Now, with that in mind, it is important for any consumer, looking to purchase any product, to think of the value of the object they wish to purchase. This can be a factor of many different criteria, but for simplicity's sake, we're just going to look at the value the product has to the consumer and the resale value.

This specific issue has been a big deal with eBooks, interesting enough. You see, at first, eBooks cost just as much as their tangible predecessors. This was, as it was seen, just a logical price. But problems arose. You see, if I purchase a physical book, once I am done reading it, I am welcome to sell it or loan it out. There are two values there, you see?

Now, at first glance, the same can be said about music. If I buy an album, I am welcome to resell it, lend it out, etc. But an issue arose with that. Music has, unlike any other media, gone almost completely digital. Of course, I don't need to explain this to you. The internet, coupled with a credit card, means instant music downloads. But, in order to stop piracy, these files typically cannot be transferred, copied, etc. Unsurprisingly enough, for legal music downloaders, this means that you remove half of a product's worth.

But, this isn't usually calculated into said products cost. That is one of the reasons why piracy has been so rampant. And while I accept your analogy of roving mobs looting during and after Katrina, I am sorely disappointed you'd select such a thing. I feel like you were going for shock factor on that one. Truly disappointed.

And you are also partially correct in assigning some of the responsibility toward internet anonymity. But, alas, I enjoy my anonymity. You see, I have the personal right not to have my information (such as addresses, my surname, date of birth, etc) taken without my consent, which I feel would be far too easy if my IP address, or whatever equivalent would exist, was linked to me in an informational sense. It's my right to privacy.

The biggest problem, I feel, in all of this spiele is that I, believe it or not, simply don't care. I don't care that a record company loses money. Maybe I just buy into the stereotype of the rich musician with a preposterously large house, two swimming pools, and two Ferrari's in the garage. Yes, it's naive. You don't have to tell me that. But the truth is I just don't care.

  • 01.15.2012 12:25 AM PDT