Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Explain AR Starts
  • Subject: Explain AR Starts
Subject: Explain AR Starts
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Sanuel Jackson
Posted by: Sandtrap
They haven't met me yet. I can hit every shot when it's not red. When you just hold down the trigger, shots will still miss, but when you pulse it, any missed shots are purely your own fault. When you pulse it, you can snipe with it and throw people off at a farther range than they expect.
You should play me in a 1v1. I get DMR starts, you get AR starts. The map will be MLG Sanctuary with MLG settings. No other weapons on the map.

The AR is simply not a practical weapon. Getting good with it won't get you very far.


Maybe at some point I'll take the offer up. I haven't had a decent AR/DMR fest in a while.

  • 01.14.2012 9:18 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

This'll be interesting.

  • 01.14.2012 9:21 PM PDT

Or better yet we'll do an Octagon.

  • 01.14.2012 9:24 PM PDT


Posted by: Sandtrap

Posted by: Sanuel Jackson
Posted by: Sandtrap
They haven't met me yet. I can hit every shot when it's not red. When you just hold down the trigger, shots will still miss, but when you pulse it, any missed shots are purely your own fault. When you pulse it, you can snipe with it and throw people off at a farther range than they expect.
You should play me in a 1v1. I get DMR starts, you get AR starts. The map will be MLG Sanctuary with MLG settings. No other weapons on the map.

The AR is simply not a practical weapon. Getting good with it won't get you very far.


Maybe at some point I'll take the offer up. I haven't had a decent AR/DMR fest in a while.

Do it soon. Please.

  • 01.14.2012 9:48 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Rakive
  • user homepage:

You must confront your inabilities
You must adjust to your capabilities

AR starts should never exist on a big map in a halo game. Of course the AR is horrible in reach I would much prefer an SMG.

  • 01.14.2012 10:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Because DMR is too hard for noobs to use.

  • 01.14.2012 10:33 PM PDT

I think, just based off the first post that AR starts should not be overly large maps. If it's something smaller then sure, but definitely not on larger maps.

  • 01.14.2012 10:38 PM PDT

You start with your magnum out.

Nowhere are they called 'AR starts' but in your mind.


[Edited on 01.14.2012 11:27 PM PST]

  • 01.14.2012 11:26 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Honorable Member

Lucy

I was wondering the same thing when I just played breakpoint ar starts just now

  • 01.15.2012 12:23 AM PDT

Why not, I find DMR starts irritating as it is entirely a cross-map spam-fest at least 90% of the time (depending on the map you play). As soon as some one spawns, they immediately have a power weapons that destroys anyone in an open firefight.

In an AR start map, DMRs are scattered around (along with other precisions weapons like the NR) in various places in the map. It is sort of treating them like a power weapon. If you so choose to pick one up to gain the medium to long range distance advantage, then by all means.

It is not that I hate DMRs entirely. I'll vote for a DMR start on certain maps. I just find that starting with it isn't a step in a great direction.

  • 01.15.2012 12:35 AM PDT

Bad/new players only know of the DMR as "that thing that kills me from far away." They don't want anything to do with it, plain and simple, and would prefer to just lolusethemachinegun. The AR is kind of a deceptive weapon that is bound to appeal to simpletons; it makes a lot of fire and noise, which gives you the impression that you're doing something when in reality you're not.

Also, I'm sure there are some people who vote purely on the basis of the map and don't care what the weapon set is. I've occasionally voted for AR start on a good map over DMR start on a bad one. Obviously I favor the DMR and NR over the AR by a long shot, but I don't think it's a crime to vote for AR start on a real map over DMR start on a godforsaken forge world map where some idiot just put down a bunch of gray walls and random ramps that lead to nothing and said "yup, it's a dayum fine map." So I would imagine there's people out there who take that to the extreme and just vote for whatever map they prefer without even considering the weapon set.

  • 01.15.2012 12:42 AM PDT

"Before you insult someone, try walking a mile in their shoes. This way, when you insult them, you are a mile away and have their shoes."

I'll be flamed for this, but W/E. The point is, I love AR starts on any map, because I feel like it encourages map movement. You spawn with two useable but weak weapons, and you must scavenge the map in order to acquire the good stuff, like it places more emphasis on map control. That's my reasoning.

However, I agree. On BTB maps, it should be AR/DMR starts.

  • 01.15.2012 12:52 AM PDT

I despise the DMR and I prefer to use the AR even if it ends up coming down to a double beat down. The DMR is garbage but since I mostly play BTB I don't have to use it that much.

  • 01.15.2012 12:55 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

"Get a life, get swiftcovered."


Posted by: Viper Skills
I've made this thread once before but it was not thoroughly explained to me why AR starts appeal to so many.

I am not going to be flaming anyone in this thread and I do ask that people keep it civil. When searching solo or in a small team we run the risk of not only getting sub-par randoms on our team, but by extension, we run the risk of said randoms voting for a less-than-desired gametype.

I understand the difference in opinions. I do. I get that some people like certain things while others do not. But what I am confused about is what is appealing about starting with a weapon that has an effective range of 10 meters (being generous), has a limited magazine size, and more times than not it ends up being a close stalemate where the victor must seek a health pack or face the consequences.

This new Squad DLC playlist shipped with AR starts. Not entirely a problem on a map like Anchor 9 but is laughable when placed on a map like Highlands. For those of you without the Defiant Map Pack, Highlands is one of the biggest maps in the game with very open space. We're not talking moving from building to building with swift and close engagements; no, we're talking open fields and open bases. The buildings that are on this map are also fit for a DMR as they are typically 40-60 meters across. Therefore, if I see my opponent at the end of the building and she sees me, we must mock a Western shootout and walk towards each other before our weapons will be of any use.

This is what confuses me. WHY is this appealing to so many players? I am not trying to come off as condescending as I am genuinely interested in hearing why people vote for a game where your weapon is an utter joke. It is. When we got AR starts on Highlands I was literally laughing. I couldn't believe it.

Fans of the gametype, please enlighten my ignorance on the issue.

Thank you for your time and have a wonderful rest of your Saturday,

Ze Viper


Switch to your pistol, or DMR is in that game it is a secondary weapon.

  • 01.15.2012 2:02 AM PDT

Posted by: lucc
I was wondering the same thing when I just played breakpoint ar starts just now
The horrors, THE HORRORS!

  • 01.15.2012 2:07 AM PDT

dont like my driving? stay off the sidewalk

i believe its the concept of a weapons "value". when you spawn into the game with an AR you want a better gun right? this makes you search for one, you have another goal rather then "look for power weapons and kill enemies". when you spawn in with a strong versatile weapon then you only focus on finding and killing enemies. i think AR starts force players to think harder and be strategic, which is probably why its so hated among the lolMLG community.

  • 01.15.2012 4:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: crispyham
ofc an ar would beat an dmr in a 1v1 game.


The -blam!- am I reading.

Beirutarded.



Back on topic.

This is the answer I feel is correct but put into better words than I could.
Posted by: spawn031
I'm still trying to grasp why players think this way as well. I'll try to be brief in my suggestion.

From the time of Halo CE campaign, every campaign has had the Assault Rifle (minus Halo 2 for the SMG). Even though in Halo CE the first weapon you start with is a pistol, players have become accustomed to the fact that the AR is the "go to" gun. This isn't a matter of "skill" as it is a matter of habit. Nearly every encounter in the Halo Campaigns, have been accustomed to including the AR in some fashion. There are a few exceptions - Truth and Reconciliation etc.

Now the way that the player interacts with enemies throughout the campaign is close quarters. There are some long range battles, but I would argue that over half of the encounters in Campaigns are CQC. Younger players have grown into a habit of playing like this. So what happens? They take it to multiplayer. They have that same mindset as if every other player on Xbox Live plays the same way. The main weapons that are used in the campaign is AR/Pistol.

I think younger players enjoy having the mindset of rushing towards an enemy with the AR or throwing grenades in hopes of killing them. What was the typical game of Lone Wolves level 1-25 back in Halo 3? AR rushing. Spray and pray. Now I'm not directly blaming the Halo campaign's for the fault of this, but I think it does have a significant weight on why it's like this.


  • 01.15.2012 8:09 AM PDT

bungie has proven that a bunch of monkeys sitting in front of keyboards can randomly type out a masterpiece. the thing is, when you go to play the masterpiece, you cant help but notice all the monkey s**t smeared all over it.

it gets real old having to wait months for someone like mlg to clean off all the monkey poo.

everybody gets a turn with ar starts. thats why noobs love it.

that player got his effortless kill on a guy who was reloading, you get your effortless kill on that player as he is reloading, and the cycle just goes on and on, with everyone on equal footing regardless of skill level or tactics.

[Edited on 01.15.2012 8:18 AM PST]

  • 01.15.2012 8:14 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

I can finally post a response to this thread. :D

I like AR starts because I don't like DMR starts. It's not that I'm bad with the DMR - even though I am - it's because I find it so, so boring and repetitive.

The few times I play DMR starts, nobody switches weapons. Nobody needs to. One time I got somebody who passed up the Sniper and when I asked them why, they said they "didn't need it".

What. I was probably just playing with an idiot, but what. Not even the other team picked it up!

Not to mention, I choose AR starts because I can. Why do I pick Armor Lock after I go on for five minutes saying why it sucks? Because I can. Why do I pick Hologram when it's virtually useless? Because I can. Why do I shoot my teammates when they've done nothing wrong? Because I can. Why do I Yoink your Assassination? Because I can. Because I find it entertaining. That's why I play the game - to be entertained. I don't find it entertaining when everybody has the Swiss Army Gun.

  • 01.15.2012 8:39 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
  • user homepage:

Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

^
You are MY Hero.

  • 01.15.2012 11:06 AM PDT

Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: crispyham
ofc an ar would beat an dmr in a 1v1 game.


The -blam!- am I reading.

Beirutarded.

i meant "ofc a dmr would beat an ar in a 1v1 game."

its a simple mix up.

[Edited on 01.15.2012 11:37 AM PST]

  • 01.15.2012 11:30 AM PDT

Forget it man, and get with the countdown. Shake this square world and blast off for Kicksville.

Reach host ranking algorithm: (a*quit_percentage + b*isMexican + c*(1/KDR) + d*hasGuest) * 100
where a > b = d > c

I think it's more a matter of mindset than anything else. One thing we know for sure is that the DMR is superior to the AR. That's a given. So the question becomes "why would you use an inferior weapon?". Thus you have to consider the motivation for playing the game.

I like to win. Fundamentally, I enjoy the game when I feel like I'm playing well, at least for my skill level. When I try, I try to play better than I have in the past: i.e., self-improvement. This isn't something Halo-specific, either. Now, a common saying from players I would consider, well, "bad" (that often use the AR as a primary, more to the point) is that they play for "fun". The implication is that this is somehow contrary to my reasons for playing the game, even though I play it to derive enjoyment as well.

Therefore, the playstyles that yield a sense of "fun" must be quite different. My best guess is that fplayers unconcerned with self-improvement or success (which is not a slight, we're talking about Halo here) are just in it for the frenetic action of gameplay; simple, visceral entertainment. So they're going to lob grenades whenever possible and fire the AR non-stop while running towards the nearest melee pit. More explosions, bullets, and punches means more "fun". The DMR, conversely, is not a particularly rewarding weapon, given it provides much less visual and aural feedback.

This theory doesn't account for players who use the AR yet quit when they are getting beaten, though. All I can assume is that they want to win but don't want to have to expend any effort or practice to facilitate this, so they continue to use a low-skill weapon rather than taking time to improve with a useful one.

[Edited on 01.15.2012 11:33 AM PST]

  • 01.15.2012 11:32 AM PDT

sha doink doink

Booksehelf and crispyham should 1v1. Bookshelf starts with a plasma pistol and crispyham starts with an AR. Perfect way to prove how worthless the AR is.

  • 01.15.2012 11:41 AM PDT


Posted by: crispyham

Posted by: aBlueBookshelf
The AR has always been worthless in Reach. That has never stopped kids from using it.
says the man who has 1,500 deaths and 0.85 k/d to the ar. for a "worthless" gun you seem to die by it alot.


i know you guys sort of ended this particular discussion but after reading your responses i still dont think you understand so ill enlighten you.

bookshelf has almost 5000 games played (nerd), having 1500 ar deaths means 1 ar death every 3 games. the ar is a useless weapon but if every gametype is ar starts, dying by it is inevitable. dying once every 3 games by it is a very good ratio.

it doesnt matter how good you are. you could be roy (inb4 you dont know who roy is), if youre half shields or youre going up 2v1 in cqc against ars, unless you have rockets you will die by those ARs. your argument is devoid of any logic, sorry.

  • 01.15.2012 11:44 AM PDT