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  • Subject: Jetpack doesn't break map control
Subject: Jetpack doesn't break map control
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Why is MR E0S so dumb.

  • 01.15.2012 10:31 AM PDT
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Posted by: MR E0S
Zomechin, you're a -blam!- idiot!

And besides all that, it still comes down a bunch of crybabies pissed off about not being able to be all cozy and comfortable in their awesome camping spot. IT keeps you on your toes and makes you have to continually adapt..

Which you people suck at.


It keeps you on your toes by getting rid of one of the greatest skills to Halo, map control and positioning.

You are completely right that it makes gameplay much more fast paced, but it does it in a HORRIBLE way, sacrificing way to much.

If you played on an open, flat map, gameplay would be just as fast as jetpacking gameplay, but that doesn't make it good gameplay.

  • 01.15.2012 10:33 AM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: Seven
Why is MR E0S so dumb.


Lack of air at birth?

  • 01.15.2012 10:33 AM PDT

Mr EOS, I respect your opinion and the logic you used to support it.

  • 01.15.2012 10:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Sanuel Jackson
What playlist was this and did the people who jetpacked knew what they were doing?

I'm a pretty good jetpacker and it makes map control pointless on maps on a lot of maps like Asylum or Uncaged. Your entire team can jetpack up and teamshoot them easily while they're exposed. No need to get a good angle on the other team or have flank them when you can all just jetpack straight up into the air.

Entire team jetpacking up is map control...

  • 01.15.2012 10:35 AM PDT

Posted by: Darkside Eric
So basically... Waypoint is pro-vanilla?

Posted by: Sentox6
Waypoint isn't pro-anything so much as they're just anti-intelligence.


Posted by: Quantam
Entire team jetpacking up is map control...

No, entire team jetpacking up is breaking map control.

  • 01.15.2012 10:36 AM PDT

Spawn killing is obviously imbalance because 90% of the time once it is attained the effort required to hold it is nil.Against randoms, obviously. Let's see you try and spawn trap a competent team. Spawn killing is not "imbalance" as it is almost always the others team fault for getting them in that position.

In fact, the effort required to break it, is 1000000x more difficult than it is for the team to hold it in most cases.Again, randoms can't break a spawn trap, breaking one requires communication, something 90% of the people in MM lack. A competent team can break one.

Don't -blam!- lie, you know it's the truth.
Spawn killing/camping (pointless technicality) is pretty much cruise control. If I'm spawn camping/killing, I'm probably yawning due to the absolute lack of challenge that is being posed by the opposing team.
MM does a lolzy job at finding evenly matched teams. Also, spawn killing idiots won't ever give you a challenge, they don't know how to break a setup.

Jetpack won't necessarily break a spawn camp. But it will make it harder and take longer for the initial setup of the spawn camp, if not avoid it altogether.Wat. Okay you ARE this stupid.

  • 01.15.2012 10:39 AM PDT
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

What is map control? Cruise control.

By all means, BREAK IT!

Just to clear things up, the reason it's harder is because you have control of most the weapons required to compete. If it's nearly impossible to get out of the spawning area. Then the team is unable to get to the weapons to take out your heavy weapons, such as tanks, wraiths, etc.

This is why map control (controlling all power weapons while pushing the team into a corner with nothing available) is imbalance, because a team should never be in that much control, it should never be that comfortable. At all times, there should be multiple avenues to be able to stop any strategy. But you insist on making it the exact opposite of that. You people are trying to turn this into nothing but map control, in which your shooting fish in a barrel.. which in my opinion is -blam!- stupid.

If anything, Map control should not exist.
Because map control is what? CRUISE CONTROL!
and in most cases, who's affected the most by your map control? People who can't handle it.
Why are we trying to make it easier to fight against noobs, instead of turning noobs into worthy opponents?

Just another dumb idea to help you dumbasses pad your K/D ratios, that's all this really is about.

You people need to realize that you are actually rewarding yourself, for rewarding the noob. Unless of course your the kind that prefers shooting at someone who went AFK.

[Edited on 01.15.2012 10:54 AM PST]

  • 01.15.2012 10:39 AM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: MR E0S
What is map control? Cruise control.

By all means, BREAK IT!


*Jetpacks*

  • 01.15.2012 10:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

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Clone is an internet God.

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RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: MR E0S
Wait a minute, you people are actually stupider than I thought.

Ok. lets make jetpack a pick up, so only a very few select people are able to have it in a match....

Wasn't someone just -blam!-ing about how jetpacks allow people to get to some unnaccesible places....

Now if that person is the only one allowed to have a jetpack on the map, and they use it to reach those "bad" spots.

YOU JUST CREATED A BIGGER PROBLEM!

Would you people at least spend a ....few minutes.... thinking -blam!- through.

Trust me when I say jetpack is better as a loadout. not a pickup.

Wait. So everyone in Jetpack only spots is better than only one person being in Jetpack only spots?

WTF am I reading?!!?

  • 01.15.2012 11:19 AM PDT
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Reach has ended my 5 year addiction to Halo. Thanks Bungie!
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6/1/07


Posted by: MR E0S
What is map control? Cruise control.

By all means, BREAK IT!

Just to clear things up, the reason it's harder is because you have control of most the weapons required to compete. If it's nearly impossible to get out of the spawning area. Then the team is unable to get to the weapons to take out your heavy weapons, such as tanks, wraiths, etc.

This is why map control (controlling all power weapons while pushing the team into a corner with nothing available) is imbalance, because a team should never be in that much control, it should never be that comfortable. At all times, there should be multiple avenues to be able to stop any strategy. But you insist on making it the exact opposite of that. You people are trying to turn this into nothing but map control, in which your shooting fish in a barrel.. which in my opinion is -blam!- stupid.

If anything, Map control should not exist.
Because map control is what? CRUISE CONTROL!
and in most cases, who's affected the most by your map control? People who can't handle it.
Why are we trying to make it easier to fight against noobs, instead of turning noobs into worthy opponents?

Just another dumb idea to help you dumbasses pad your K/D ratios, that's all this really is about.

You people need to realize that you are actually rewarding yourself, for rewarding the noob. Unless of course your the kind that prefers shooting at someone who went AFK.


What is map control? Uh...only the most fundamental aspect of strategy in combat that has been around for all FPS gaming and even all warfare in human history. What did ancient greeks do...take the high ground (a form of map control).

Turning noobs into worthy opponents? So you want to get rid of every single advantage a human being gains from spending time to get better at the game, for the sake of a noob being able to kill him?


You have got to be trolling.

  • 01.15.2012 11:26 AM PDT
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PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE.

Team A uses jetpacks.

Team B uses sprint.

Which one is able to take higher ground anytime they wish?

Which one is able to get to parts of maps that shouldn't be reached?

Which one is able to get high areas faster?

It does break map control.

And don't say that team B can use jetpacks as well. A person shouldn't essentially be FORCED to use an AA to counteract that exact same AA.

That makes the game way less fun since your choices are narrowed.

  • 01.15.2012 11:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: MR E0S
I can't help but think that you're a troll, I've never seen anyone this stupid.

  • 01.15.2012 11:34 AM PDT

Posted by: So Slick
Turning noobs into worthy opponents? So you want to get rid of every single advantage a human being gains from spending time to get better at the game, for the sake of a noob being able to kill him?


You have got to be trolling.
the jet pack doesn't make you automatically a good player or a worthy opponent.

if you suck you suck. you're still gona lose.

[Edited on 01.15.2012 11:38 AM PST]

  • 01.15.2012 11:35 AM PDT
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I play games for gameplay, not silly gimmicks

H3 MM warrior

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Posted by: crispyham
Posted by: So Slick
Turning noobs into worthy opponents? So you want to get rid of every single advantage a human being gains from spending time to get better at the game, for the sake of a noob being able to kill him?


You have got to be trolling.
the jet pack doesn't make you automatically a good player or a worthy opponent.


Take 2 retards. (most people on this forum)

Give one sprint and one jetpack

put them against me in a To4

I bet the one with jetpack is the only one who gets a kill.

  • 01.15.2012 11:39 AM PDT


Posted by: meagsIZbeast

Posted by: crispyham
Posted by: So Slick
Turning noobs into worthy opponents? So you want to get rid of every single advantage a human being gains from spending time to get better at the game, for the sake of a noob being able to kill him?


You have got to be trolling.
the jet pack doesn't make you automatically a good player or a worthy opponent.


Take 2 retards. (most people on this forum)

Give one sprint and one jetpack

put them against me in a To4

I bet the one with jetpack is the only one who gets a kill.
sigh. were not talking about only one person having access to the jet pack. it is a load out, if it was a pick up the subject of this thread would different

[Edited on 01.15.2012 11:43 AM PST]

  • 01.15.2012 11:40 AM PDT
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I play games for gameplay, not silly gimmicks

H3 MM warrior

Reach S7, 8 and 9 arena warrior.

H4 MM legend


Posted by: crispyham

Posted by: meagsIZbeast

Posted by: crispyham
Posted by: So Slick
Turning noobs into worthy opponents? So you want to get rid of every single advantage a human being gains from spending time to get better at the game, for the sake of a noob being able to kill him?


You have got to be trolling.
the jet pack doesn't make you automatically a good player or a worthy opponent.


Take 2 retards. (most people on this forum)

Give one sprint and one jetpack

put them against me in a To4

I bet the one with jetpack is the only one who gets a kill.
sigh. were not talking about only one person having access to the jet pack. it is a load out, if it was a pick up the subject of this thread would different


I know. Im saying jet pack decreases the skill gap. Look at what I said. If you took 4 people who suck, and put them against 4 good kids, and gave one retard a jetpack, he would be the only one with a kill.

Jetpack makes even the most retarded kids have a chance.

  • 01.15.2012 11:44 AM PDT
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Reach has ended my 5 year addiction to Halo. Thanks Bungie!
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Posted by: crispyham
Posted by: So Slick
Turning noobs into worthy opponents? So you want to get rid of every single advantage a human being gains from spending time to get better at the game, for the sake of a noob being able to kill him?


You have got to be trolling.
the jet pack doesn't make you automatically a good player or a worthy opponent.

if you suck you suck. you're still gona lose.


First, what meagss said.

Second, I agree, but it is a step towards what I described, and regardless of skill level, Jetpack makes the game easier and diminishes one of the key aspects to any FPS.

  • 01.15.2012 11:48 AM PDT
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Reach has ended my 5 year addiction to Halo. Thanks Bungie!
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Posted by: meagsIZbeast


H3?

  • 01.15.2012 11:49 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Meagss
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I play games for gameplay, not silly gimmicks

H3 MM warrior

Reach S7, 8 and 9 arena warrior.

H4 MM legend


Posted by: So Slick

Posted by: meagsIZbeast


H3?


ya ima get on now.

  • 01.15.2012 11:51 AM PDT

Posted by: NoWise10
I don't get why people say this, that the jetpack breaks the map flow and control. I've dominated countless games with all the enmies used jetpacks.

Seriously, prove me wrong on this. Give em a real, legit reason why you think jetpacks ruined Halo.
I, personally, have no problem with jetpacks. But keep in mind that I play almost solely in playlists like Big Team Battle, Team Slayer, or playlists that just don't contain jetpacks at all. From my point of view the jetpack brings an interesting change to the gameplay and I rarely use anything but sprint. A few times I've noticed a red dot on my radar behind me, turned around to see nothing, and then realized all too late that the enemy's actually flying above me but this has literally happened just a few times in the many games I've played. I've killed a lot more jetpackers than I've been killed by.

But from what I've seen, the people who complain about the jetpack are the people who play more competitive playlists like MLG. Big Team Battle and Team Slayer don't commonly seem to be considered competitive playlists. In my experience, they're more unpredictable and unorganized. In the more competitive playlists like MLG, I can see why map control would be more important. I can also see how it'd be almost impossible to control an entire team that has the ability to just fly away.

Overall I like the jetpack but maybe it just doesn't belong in the more competitive playlists.

  • 01.15.2012 1:06 PM PDT

Its about to get real in this thread.

  • 01.15.2012 1:07 PM PDT

Why jetpack should be removed

TL;DR summary of its faults at the bottom
Before you read this post, I am referring how the jetpack is typically used at a competitive level. I have experience dealing with it. It is a nuisance to deal with. I stuck to sprint most of the time because I knew I was better than the other team. On some maps, you must adapt to the style of game. I and many others have adapted and know that it is not right for a good game. Just because we dont like it, doesnt mean we havent adapted or beaten it. It just doesnt add anything positive to the game.

Faster gameplay isnt always favoured. You must slow the game down at some points to regroup and make pushes to the other teams base. In my opinion, the jetpack is better as a pickup, as seen in mlg. It is perfectly fine when used on maps that cannot be abused by a flying opponent. Since the gravity is higher in mlg, the cannot go as high anyways. The kill barriers on top of the maps also stop them, they are hard kill not soft kill barriers. I hope default learns that things that can be exploited will be.

I know for a fact that many you have not played at a high level of competition. Typically, the better players know how a good game plays out. It involves both teams trying to setup. A good game is where everyone has the same start ie. Weapons and abilities. Off topic, that is what made classic halo. That is what people liked.

When multiple people use jetpack, there is an imbalance of the game. It does keep you on edge. That is fune when you have a gaeneral idea of where people can come from. Sometimes you cannot even see them on your radar because they are too high for it to pick anything up. You should not have to look that high up while also being deistracted by players down on the ground. That is why kill barriers and jetpack as a pickup are needed.

I know that you cant see anybody on your radar in mlg, because there is no radar. This is fine because then the other team doesnt neccessarily know where you are either. Although in mlg, it is almost vertain that they are in a key position on the map. Not hiding in some spot outside the map. Sanctuary, specifically CTF, is a perfect example of how jetpacks should be used in a competitive game. It is basically only used to get control of a power weapon. It is used to shoot at people going for rockets off the start. You cannot see the entire map while jetpacking because of the kill barrier just above ring 3 (the middle part of the map on the ledge around it).

In default, mainly arena, there are people who have actually mastered this tactic, if you can call it that. Trying to play classic Halo is not possible against any of these type of people. I play to win, winning is fun for me. If I lose because the other team chose to do a cheap trick, they know it is cheap, to win I feel like they didnt deserve the win. Just because we could have also chose to use the jetpack, we didnt because we know that isnt what makes a good game and because we are better than the other team. Classic Halo skill cant compete with a full team jetpacking.

There have been maps that can be completely exploited by jetpacks in matchmaking. Some of these maps are: Synapse, Enclosed, Rebirth, Uncaged, Select. These are just a few of the broken maps in default reach. There are worse maps, but they arent completely dominated by the use of a jetpack. Notice how all of those maps are Forge World maps. These maps can all be fixed by implementing more kill barriers or a ceiling to the map. On synapse, the ceiling is pointless because you can jetpack on top of everything with a vantage point basically seeing every part of the map while not beeing seen at all. One problem with enclosed and uncaged is the use of lifts that shoot you straight up. When you are using a jetpack, you can literally touch the stars when you are up there. Everybody looks like ants, but you can still see shoot them perfectly. There is no reason for them to look into the Stratosphere. As for Rebirth and Enclosed, there are spots not accessible on the map that can be used once you use a jetpack. On rebirth, you could fly over some rocks and get into a cave. On enclosed, you can use the lift at red sniper to fly over the wall and land on an edge. You can then go underneath the map and never be shot at. How does that speed up gameplay at all. That is the exact opposite thing that a good competitive game should have. Many of the times, simple forge applications can be used to fix the problems. If the forger intends on people using jetpack, make spots that cannot be camped or are hidden from the rest of the map. That is the forgers responsibility, but the player should also know how the map was supposed to be played. Every map has a certain flow to it. Most games have a set path of where you get kills and where you die. With the use of a jetpack, you will never know where you got killed from. Having a death, because the other team resorted to cheap tricks aggrevates me. I know for a fact that if some teams did not use the jetpack, they wouldnt get nearly as high of a placement as they did.

Skill is not taken into account when facing a team of jetpackers. When a person is at a high enough altitude, it is hard to shoot a persons head. You can only shoot their body since you are essentially shooting directly upwards. The person in the air can shoot the persons head almost every time because they shotting directly downwards. So for anyone saying it is not as hard to kill a jetpacker is wrong. it takes 8 shots to the body to get a kill and only 5 to the head. The person who is jetpacking obviously is going to get the kill because they are able to get headshots while the other person cannot.

Summary
Although it can speed up the game, that is not the reason people use it.
It is used to break the other teams map control and gain an unfair advantage.
It lets you get to spots not accessible to the other players not using jetpacks.
It actually is harder to kill someone who is jetpacking.
Bad players can seem good because they can jetpack.


[Edited on 01.15.2012 1:08 PM PST]

  • 01.15.2012 1:08 PM PDT

Now thats how you end a thread.

  • 01.15.2012 1:40 PM PDT

chances are I don't care who you are or what you say.

wow, the people that play this game...

/wrists

  • 01.15.2012 2:04 PM PDT