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  • Subject: Stop acting like the majority.
Subject: Stop acting like the majority.


Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: con_extreme


The TU playlist doesn't use the right settings, MLG isn't a playlist for everyone.

Yes, there will always be people complaining, but in H3, it was the bad players complaining about the BR spamming and the 1-50. Now in Reach it's basically everyone complaining about how the game blows.

Everyone who isn't retarded anyway.


that doesn't matter, if the majority of players truly preferred TU over vanilla then they would choose to play in the playlists that use TU more then playlists that use vanilla.

oh, so i guess the good players in halo 3 never complained about the br spread -blam!- them over at long range, not to mention bullet travel and latency causing a huge amount of blood shots ..

why am i even bothering? i'm just arguing with a troll ...

  • 01.16.2012 7:39 AM PDT


Posted by: con_extreme

Posted by: SouthPoIe
We are the majority.
L2DealWithIt


please, don't be delusional, if you are the majority then explain why LD is the most popular playlist, surely if you where the majority then MLG would be the most popular.


Because most competetive players and those who enjoyed vanilla halo are waiting for halo 4 because Reach is so bad. Hence what you are left with is casuals who couldn't get past rank10 in halo 3. So surely the majority of Halo players aren't playing this game or it would be just like halo 3 200,000 300,000 on at one time.

  • 01.16.2012 7:40 AM PDT


Posted by: con_extreme

Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: con_extreme


The TU playlist doesn't use the right settings, MLG isn't a playlist for everyone.

Yes, there will always be people complaining, but in H3, it was the bad players complaining about the BR spamming and the 1-50. Now in Reach it's basically everyone complaining about how the game blows.

Everyone who isn't retarded anyway.


that doesn't matter, if the majority of players truly preferred TU over vanilla then they would choose to play in the playlists that use TU more then playlists that use vanilla.

oh, so i guess the good players in halo 3 never complained about the br spread -blam!- them over at long range, not to mention bullet travel and latency causing a huge amount of blood shots ..

why am i even bothering? i'm just arguing with a troll ...


No because most halo players don't play the trash reach. Your intelligence makes me want to slam my head into a brick wall.

  • 01.16.2012 7:41 AM PDT


Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: con_extreme

Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: con_extreme


The TU playlist doesn't use the right settings, MLG isn't a playlist for everyone.

Yes, there will always be people complaining, but in H3, it was the bad players complaining about the BR spamming and the 1-50. Now in Reach it's basically everyone complaining about how the game blows.

Everyone who isn't retarded anyway.


that doesn't matter, if the majority of players truly preferred TU over vanilla then they would choose to play in the playlists that use TU more then playlists that use vanilla.

oh, so i guess the good players in halo 3 never complained about the br spread -blam!- them over at long range, not to mention bullet travel and latency causing a huge amount of blood shots ..

why am i even bothering? i'm just arguing with a troll ...


No because most halo players don't play the trash reach. Your intelligence makes me want to slam my head into a brick wall.


right, i find that hard to believe.

how can you not play halo yet be a halo player ...?

  • 01.16.2012 7:43 AM PDT

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LOL this thread.


Seriously though, the people on the forum are the only players that matter. The 'majority' who doesn't come on this forum don't contribute anything to the game other than sales, heatmaps, voting statistics, and other minor misc stats.

Game mechanics like Armor Lock, Bloom, and Bleed Through don't get changed or altered because of a 'silent majority' wanting them. It's the vocal minority (i.e. the passionate people on these forums) who give the necessary feedback that helps to shape the game. Does it bother the silent majority? Probably not because they'd enjoy the game regardless of how it was, otherwise they'd be on the forum -blam!- ing about it (or playing CoD).

What do you want 343i to do--go door-to-door visiting Reach players and asking them what they think of the game? Nope. That's what forums are for.

In essence, we are the majority. As in, our opinions are the only ones that matter because they're the only ones 343i has.

[Edited on 01.16.2012 7:46 AM PST]

  • 01.16.2012 7:44 AM PDT


Posted by: con_extreme

Posted by: AK FROST

Posted by: con_extreme

Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: con_extreme


The TU playlist doesn't use the right settings, MLG isn't a playlist for everyone.

Yes, there will always be people complaining, but in H3, it was the bad players complaining about the BR spamming and the 1-50. Now in Reach it's basically everyone complaining about how the game blows.

Everyone who isn't retarded anyway.


that doesn't matter, if the majority of players truly preferred TU over vanilla then they would choose to play in the playlists that use TU more then playlists that use vanilla.

oh, so i guess the good players in halo 3 never complained about the br spread -blam!- them over at long range, not to mention bullet travel and latency causing a huge amount of blood shots ..

why am i even bothering? i'm just arguing with a troll ...


No because most halo players don't play the trash reach. Your intelligence makes me want to slam my head into a brick wall.


right, i find that hard to believe.

how can you not play halo yet be a halo player ...?


How can you say Halo Reach is a true Halo game. When it's quite clear what the results were. How can you call yourself a true halo player when you defend a game like Halo Reach. People are playing other games ovbiously or playing halo 3 because Reach is so aweful. Number 7 matters because before tu reach rarely had 30,000 on at one time. Halo 3 for many years kept a high population. Yes Reach has more competetion but people playing xbl from that time has at least tripled. Halo players don't play reach because it is a bad game. Most often others play it because it is the only choice for a halo game. Come Halo 4 do you think people will actually conitnue to play Reach. Good joke. The population will die as soon as Halo 4 comes out. It will have no replay value unlike Halo 2 or 3 for that matter.

  • 01.16.2012 7:48 AM PDT


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
LOL this thread.


Seriously though, the people on the forum are the only players that matter. The 'majority' who doesn't come on this forum don't contribute anything to the game other than sales, heatmaps, voting statistics, and other minor misc stats.

Game mechanics like Armor Lock, Bloom, and Bleed Through don't get changed or altered because of a 'silent majority' wanting them. It's the vocal minority (i.e. the passionate people on these forums) who give the necessary feedback that helps to shape the game. Does it bother the silent majority? Probably not because they'd enjoy the game regardless of how it was, otherwise they'd be on the forum -blam!- ing about it (or playing CoD).

What do you want 343i to do--go door-to-door visiting Reach players and asking them what they think of the game? Nope. That's what forums are for.

In essence, we are the majority. As in, our opinions are the only ones that matter because they're the only ones 343i has.

so, the majority of gamers means absolutely nothing and should be ignored?

this is bad practice, doing this will cause the death of your game by catering and listening to the extreme minority, the people that are passionate about the games that are vocal on the forums is a minority inside the vocal minority since the majority of forum goers are there to complain about something they don't like or do not understand.

you hardly ever see people on forums giving decent feedback, instead, you see people mindlessly complaining and making up excuses at every corner to justify there arguments, they will even re-iterate there own arguments and points that are being debated to prove there own points, this group of people are not the group of people you want to listen to which happens to be the majority of the b.net reach forum.

[Edited on 01.16.2012 7:57 AM PST]

  • 01.16.2012 7:50 AM PDT


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
LOL this thread.


Seriously though, the people on the forum are the only players that matter. The 'majority' who doesn't come on this forum don't contribute anything to the game other than sales, heatmaps, voting statistics, and other minor misc stats.

Game mechanics like Armor Lock, Bloom, and Bleed Through don't get changed or altered because of a 'silent majority' wanting them. It's the vocal minority (i.e. the passionate people on these forums) who give the necessary feedback that helps to shape the game. Does it bother the silent majority? Probably not because they'd enjoy the game regardless of how it was, otherwise they'd be on the forum -blam!- ing about it (or playing CoD).

What do you want 343i to do--go door-to-door visiting Reach players and asking them what they think of the game? Nope. That's what forums are for.

In essence, we are the majority.

That's a dumb way to look at it. So if I was the president of a company and every one was happy except this one guy who was completely fed up, would I change my company for the sake of an angry customer? No. Because the customers that don't complain and actually use my product/service are content. There is no need to complain. Yet when I change my product/service they are mad, and only the angry guy is satisfied, but yet the angry guy doesn't use my product.

Nobody wins in this analogy.

  • 01.16.2012 7:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: InvasionImminent
You really are trying to avoid admitting things, aren't you?

[Edited on 01.16.2012 7:55 AM PST]

  • 01.16.2012 7:55 AM PDT


Posted by: CrazyT

Posted by: InvasionImminent
You really are trying to avoid admitting things, aren't you?

Like what?

  • 01.16.2012 7:56 AM PDT

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Posted by: con_extreme
so, the majority of gamers means absolutely nothing and shouldn't be ignored?

this is bad practice, doing this will cause the death of your game by catering and listening to the extreme minority, the people that are passionate about the games that are vocal on the forums is a minority inside the vocal minority since the majority of forum goers are there to complain about something they don't like or do not understand.

you hardly ever see people on forums giving decent feedback, instead, you see people mindlessly complaining and making up excuses at every corner to justify there arguments, they will even re-iterate there own arguments and points that are being debated to prove there own points, this group of people are not the group of people you want to listen to which happens to be the majority of the b.net reach forum.


All of the legitimate feedback threads were ignored or spammed with weak arguments such as 'adapt' and 'dont like it, don't play it'. Nobody is going to want to post constructively if it'll be received that way. The constructive threads have long since abandoned the Reach forum and have either gone to 343i or have been lost in the wind.

I'm not saying the majority should be ignored completely. I'm saying that just because they like the game it doesn't mean it's the best it can be. I've built and played on many custom maps where a majority liked it and a minority didn't. How are we supposed to know what's wrong with our maps if we listen to players who only like them? My map Jackal Creek went through this. The majority of people on this forum loved the map, but a certain minority didn't and it's because of the minority voicing their opinions that the map was changed and made better

The 'majority' either doesn't care or doesn't notice problems with the game. They aren't exploiting spawns. They aren't abusing game mechanics. They aren't discovering issues like glitches that Bungie/343i overlook. They aren't giving useful feedback. There's only so much you can do with a heatmap from 1000 players, whereas the opinion of 10 players could do the same job threefold.

343i isn't making changes to the game to please a minority, because as InvasionImminent said the minority can be seen as irrelevant in some regard. 343i is making these changes to make the game better. And they don't get that feedback from those who don't give it.



[Edited on 01.16.2012 8:07 AM PST]

  • 01.16.2012 8:04 AM PDT


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: con_extreme
so, the majority of gamers means absolutely nothing and shouldn't be ignored?

this is bad practice, doing this will cause the death of your game by catering and listening to the extreme minority, the people that are passionate about the games that are vocal on the forums is a minority inside the vocal minority since the majority of forum goers are there to complain about something they don't like or do not understand.

you hardly ever see people on forums giving decent feedback, instead, you see people mindlessly complaining and making up excuses at every corner to justify there arguments, they will even re-iterate there own arguments and points that are being debated to prove there own points, this group of people are not the group of people you want to listen to which happens to be the majority of the b.net reach forum.


All of the legitimate feedback threads were ignored or spammed with weak arguments such as 'adapt' and 'dont like it, don't play it'. Nobody is going to want to post constructively if it'll be received that way. The constructive threads have long since abandoned the Reach forum and have either gone to 343i or have been lost in the wind.

I'm not saying the majority should be ignored completely. I'm saying that just because they like the game it doesn't mean it's the best it can be. I've built and played on many custom maps where a majority liked it and a minority didn't. How are we supposed to know what's wrong with our maps if we listen to players who only like them? My map Jackal Creek went through this. The majority of people on this forum loved the map, but a certain minority didn't and it's because of the minority voicing their opinions that the map was changed and made better

The 'majority' either doesn't care or doesn't notice problems with the game. They aren't exploiting spawns. They aren't abusing game mechanics. They aren't discovering issues like glitches that Bungie/343i overlook. They aren't giving useful feedback. There's only so much you can do with a heatmap from 1000 players, whereas the opinion of 10 players could do the same job threefold.

343i isn't making changes to the game to please a minority, because as InvasionImminent said the minority can be seen as irrelevant in some regard. 343i is making these changes to make the game better. And they don't get that feedback from those who don't give it.



yea, that i agree with but what i think 343i are doing is doing more harm then good, there is a steady rise in people expressing a distaste for the TU on the waypoint forums but i guess this is the fault of people not going on the forums to express their views even though they where promoted several times in game to do so.

as for the map thing .. i'm in that boat with inflamable being, everyone has nothing bad to say or point out things that i could improve on, its been months now since i got any sort of decent feedback on this map ..

  • 01.16.2012 8:10 AM PDT

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Look all I'm saying is this: There were, are, and will continue to be problems with the game, as there will with almost everything. How are we supposed to know these problems if nobody tells us?

I'd rather have 10 educated and cohesive feedback threads about my game than 1000 threads with useless feedback, such as "Reach is awesome!" or "This is the best Halo" or my personal favorite "Thank you BUNJAY!"

Seriously guys, let's think about this rationally for a second.

  • 01.16.2012 8:10 AM PDT

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Posted by: con_extreme
yea, that i agree with but what i think 343i are doing is doing more harm then good, there is a steady rise in people expressing a distaste for the TU on the waypoint forums but i guess this is the fault of people not going on the forums to express their views even though they where promoted several times in game to do so.

as for the map thing .. i'm in that boat with inflamable being, everyone has nothing bad to say or point out things that i could improve on, its been months now since i got any sort of decent feedback on this map ..


The distaste for the TU is the result of a few unavoidable glitches if I understood it correctly. For example, Bleedthrough is inconsistent and melee's are too powerful, etc.

IDK how 343i is getting any work done though because the Waypoint forums are really difficult to get good feedback from. A lot of players over their are voicing rather... uh how to put this nicely...peculiar opinions that could potentially make the game worse.


If you forge you definitely understand good feedback vs useless feedback. I've been there and it's no fun when you finally learn your map sucks after some good feedback tears it down. Our job as designers though is to take all forms of feedback and see what we can do with it. We don't necessary have to cater to that one guy who's pissed off about the product. However, at the same time we can't ignore his useful feedback.


Unless it's mindless ranting, which to my surprise still plagues this very forum.

  • 01.16.2012 8:15 AM PDT


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Look all I'm saying is this: There were, are, and will continue to be problems with the game, as there will with almost everything. How are we supposed to know these problems if nobody tells us?

I'd rather have 10 educated and cohesive feedback threads about my game than 1000 threads with useless feedback, such as "Reach is awesome!" or "This is the best Halo" or my personal favorite "Thank you BUNJAY!"

Seriously guys, let's think about this rationally for a second.


yea, constructive topics > greater then mindless hatred and love, it is hard to find the constructive topics when the majority of topics and posts mostly come from mindless love or hate, this gives developers a hard time of understand what the community is actually like, not liking and where things could be improved.

personally though, i think 343i is doing a poor job at distinguishing between the 2, not that i could do it any better but it does appear that they are trying to please the people who are expressing a blind hatred for the game.

  • 01.16.2012 8:17 AM PDT
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Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

Constructive feedback about what you think is wrong about the game is fine.

Saying crap like "you have to agree or you're retarded" is...well, retarded.

  • 01.16.2012 8:18 AM PDT

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Posted by: con_extreme

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
Look all I'm saying is this: There were, are, and will continue to be problems with the game, as there will with almost everything. How are we supposed to know these problems if nobody tells us?

I'd rather have 10 educated and cohesive feedback threads about my game than 1000 threads with useless feedback, such as "Reach is awesome!" or "This is the best Halo" or my personal favorite "Thank you BUNJAY!"

Seriously guys, let's think about this rationally for a second.


yea, constructive topics > greater then mindless hatred and love, it is hard to find the constructive topics when the majority of topics and posts mostly come from mindless love or hate, this gives developers a hard time of understand what the community is actually like, not liking and where things could be improved.

personally though, i think 343i is doing a poor job at distinguishing between the 2, not that i could do it any better but it does appear that they are trying to please the people who are expressing a blind hatred for the game.


Yea I understand what you're saying and I agree. It must be difficult to sift through pages and pages of feedback. But hey--I'd love to get paid to do that.

  • 01.16.2012 8:19 AM PDT

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Posted by: And Im Here Too
Constructive feedback about what you think is wrong about the game is fine.

Saying crap like "you have to agree or you're retarded" is...well, retarded.


The latter threads only exist because the former were filled with "adapt" and "don't like don't play" posts as a cop-out counter argument.

I understand what you're saying though. The elitist attitude doesn't help the situation; however, the narrow-minded dismissal of feedback doesn't help either.

There's just a lack of communication between all parties =/

  • 01.16.2012 8:21 AM PDT
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Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat
There's just a lack of communication between all parties =/


Exactly.

Something that everybody seems to have forgotten is that "casuals" and "competitives" are two sides to the same coin. Not "ololol one side is the retarded side ololol", they should both be given equal influence on the game in question, in this case Reach. Or Halo 4, whatever.

  • 01.16.2012 8:25 AM PDT

understanding why the person is giving feed back is important aswell. its just not about "feedback". A chuck of feed back thats been on this forum back from halo 2 (yes it extents that far back) is just stemming from certain aspects of game play hurting ppls egos. Making changes to suit these complains would actually hurt the game overall.

And considering the same ppl who complained brought halo 3 and reach and still continued to play the games after voicing there complains only proves that the developers did what they needed to do. get ppl to buy and play there game.

[Edited on 01.16.2012 8:32 AM PST]

  • 01.16.2012 8:28 AM PDT


Posted by: A 3 Legged Goat

Posted by: con_extreme
yea, that i agree with but what i think 343i are doing is doing more harm then good, there is a steady rise in people expressing a distaste for the TU on the waypoint forums but i guess this is the fault of people not going on the forums to express their views even though they where promoted several times in game to do so.

as for the map thing .. i'm in that boat with inflamable being, everyone has nothing bad to say or point out things that i could improve on, its been months now since i got any sort of decent feedback on this map ..


The distaste for the TU is the result of a few unavoidable glitches if I understood it correctly. For example, Bleedthrough is inconsistent and melee's are too powerful, etc.


actually, i think the most recent variants of TU have the bugs fixed for the most part, i've noticed that the DMR being a consitent 5sk now along with melee bleed through not killing me on full shields and health all the time, though, these where an issue with bleed through i think the main problem comes from the introduction of AA's and the utility weapon being single shot instead of a 3 shot burst as the BR was.

lets face it though, sprint just makes melee more effective regardless of bleed through and no bleed through because sprinting doesn't but you at a disadvantage when it comes to melee attacks as it does with guns.


IDK how 343i is getting any work done though because the Waypoint forums are really difficult to get good feedback from. A lot of players over their are voicing rather... uh how to put this nicely...peculiar opinions that could potentially make the game worse.


yea, they probably just skimming through the posts and looking for things that could be remotely constructive, though, these a few and fare between so this gives them quite a bit of time to get things done.


If you forge you definitely understand good feedback vs useless feedback. I've been there and it's no fun when you finally learn your map sucks after some good feedback tears it down. Our job as designers though is to take all forms of feedback and see what we can do with it. We don't necessary have to cater to that one guy who's pissed off about the product. However, at the same time we can't ignore his useful feedback.


yup, my map obsidian is a great example of that, people liked this map a lot but as soon as i got more widespread feedback it became apparent that i had done a lot of things wrong, though, everything i learned from the making of this map when into inflamable being and now i'm stuck with nothing but "that map gets better and better every time i play on it", "i enjoy everything about it" and so on ..

feedback is everything and the best thing i find to do is listen to everything that is being said and then look into my own solutions based on the feedback that is given, doing pretty much what they suggest ends up ruining things but when i think on it and make my own changes based on what they have said then things tend to get better, sadly though, this isn't what i see 343i is doing, instead, they are listing to the mindless ranting.


Unless it's mindless ranting, which to my surprise still plagues this very forum.


peoples first instinctive feedback is mindless ranting or praise, you have to try and keep them talking to understand what is making them praise or rant otherwise your left with nothing, if they end up creating blind excuses then just ignore them in be on your way.

lastly, i've played with you testing race maps with godly perfection for this, though, you kind of left in a hurry and never used your mic..

anyway, looks like i gtg, my brother wants his laptop back..

  • 01.16.2012 8:30 AM PDT


Ooh, I love those people, the ones who decide to throw everything and the kitchen sink at you, as if an M16 does anything to a T-90. Oh, MLG player with noobtube instead? Congrats! You blew off one of my ablative plates!

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Bad Guy, this is Gun.


Posted by: Frasier Crane
The only reason Reach lovers don't post is because they're too retarded to.use a keyboard.


So how am I typing, with my brain?

  • 01.16.2012 8:36 AM PDT

You guys are still ranting on about this? Jesus christ, just accept the fact that the game isn't as good as the other ones and leave. Reach isn't fun anymore.

  • 01.16.2012 8:38 AM PDT

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Posted by: Scatcycle3
You guys are still ranting on about this? Jesus christ, just accept the fact that the game isn't as good as the other ones and leave. Reach isn't fun anymore.



If Reach wasn't fun for me I would have dropped it a year ago. I've found my niche and I enjoy it.

  • 01.16.2012 8:43 AM PDT


Posted by: Scatcycle3
You guys are still ranting on about this? Jesus christ, just accept the fact that the game isn't as good as the other ones and leave. Reach isn't fun anymore.



here is another reason why reach isn't as popular as it could be, pear pressure, people who like reach and halo in generall are afraid to admitt it to there friends because they constantly make trashy remarks about the franchise.

honestly, i think those CoD kids are very good at surpressing halo through peer pressure, i find it quite annoying but funny at the same time with all the excuses and reasons that they come up with.

"halo copy CoD" LOL!
"it takes for ever to kill someone"
"power weapon whores"

and so on, pretty much ignorant reasons based on there lack of udnerstanding abou the game, the first one though is ignorant in a whole because every game franchise copies each other and others come up with the same ideas.

oh yea, i'm using my sisters laptop now but she'll be home soon asking for it back ... i need to get a new laptop since my motherboard crapped out on me.

[Edited on 01.16.2012 8:50 AM PST]

  • 01.16.2012 8:49 AM PDT