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Subject: Arbiter, Half-Jaw, and the Covenant Separatists + Earth's situa...
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Posted by: High Truth
Remember though, Arbiter, Miranda, Half-Jaw are still on Delta Halo. Although I am sure they will return to Earth since Half-Jaw took back a Cruiser from Brute Control, conviently close to the Control Room...They'll probably get back a few hours after Cheif and them, if they make it out of the fight around High Charity.
When did Half-Jaw take a Brute controlled Cruiser?


[Edited on 5/14/2006]

  • 05.14.2006 1:26 AM PDT
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He hasn't took it back yet, he said he would take back a cruiser after the Arbiter had pirated the Scarab. Now he probably has some Spec-Ops forces ready with a Phantom 'cause it is not realisticthat he would attack a Scarab with a single Elites or if you let him die, alone.

And everyone made a slight mistake when dividing the races, it's not Brute, Jackal, Drone and Hierarchs vs. Elite, Grunt and Hunter, it's Brute, Jackal, Drone and Truth vs. Elite, Grunt, Hunter and Hierarchs for the Brutes tried to kill the High Council, as you know some Elite High Council Members survived so maybe some Hierarchs survived as well.

[Edited on 5/14/2006]

  • 05.14.2006 1:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: Ultimas Blade
Hmm.. The ark activates the other Halos does it not? If I stop one but the other seven or how many ever could potentially be activated, I would be hot on my feet trying to shut them down as well, and for good at that. Besides, don't Elites seem like the type of warriors to see the war through?


The point is that we don't know what will be going on for sure yet. The elites at earth fight may not be aware of the split yet.

  • 05.14.2006 1:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jaffer
He hasn't took it back yet, he said he would take back a cruiser after the Arbiter had pirated the Scarab. Now he probably has some Spec-Ops forces ready with a Phantom 'cause it is not realisticthat he would attack a Scarab with a single Elites or if you let him die, alone.

Thanks, thought I missed something. *was like minutes from playing through the ending again*
Posted by: Jaffer
And everyone made a slight mistake when dividing the races, it's not Brute, Jackal, Drone and Hierarchs vs. Elite, Grunt and Hunter, it's Brute, Jackal, Drone and Truth vs. Elite, Grunt, Hunter and Hierarchs for the Brutes tried to kill the High Council, as you know some Elite High Council Members survived so maybe some Hierarchs survived as well.

From what I've been keeping up with, no one has really mentioned the Heirarchs. We've been lumping them in with the rest of the Elites.

These are the groupings we've made:

Loyalists
Prophets, Brutes, Jackels, Drones

Separatists
Elites, Hunters, Grunts

Humanity

Flood

Extra Factions to Consider: Forerunner Technology (i.e. Sentinels), Remnant Heretics...

  • 05.14.2006 2:13 AM PDT
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I think everyone who was left at Delta Halo is going to have a way to get off. Remember in The Great Journey when Half-Jaw talks about making sure no reinforcements get in behind you, and then he's going to take the cruiser that's floating in the backround back. I'd put money that that is where Halo 3 begins. Once there, the Arbiter will tell of the Prophet's betrayal and the lie of the Great Journey to all of the Covenant. Then, they will go to the ark.

  • 05.14.2006 2:15 AM PDT
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Is it possible that there are more Hierarchs out there, and that maybe they opposed the changing of the guard, and would have thus stayed on the Seperatists side?

  • 05.14.2006 10:15 AM PDT
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Hmm, yes. I would think that if the Elites, Hunters, and Grunts joined the humans, there would be at least a few rumblings of discontentedness among at least the Elites, most of whom think the Humans are dirty, filthy animals who deserve only annihalation.

  • 05.14.2006 10:31 AM PDT
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sorry to change the subject but you guys join Bloody Halo Gamers so it doesn't get deleted.

  • 05.14.2006 10:36 AM PDT
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Interesting topic, but does the Arbitor and the Separatists forces know about the Ar(k or c?) on Earth, or that the Master Cheif and Truth were sent to Earth? We only assume that b/c we learn of the Arc at the end of the game.

I think all that they need to worry about at this point is how to get off of Delta Halo, and to escape the Flood Space surronding it(b/c they have doubtlessly control the entire city, and are creating the bodies into hosts).

  • 05.14.2006 10:54 AM PDT
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Well,the Oracle does inform the Arbiter & co. of the Ark, I would think it would be the Chief who doesn't know.

  • 05.14.2006 12:06 PM PDT
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Just keepin this thread alive.

  • 05.14.2006 4:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: Spike12
Just keepin this thread alive.
It almost died for a second. *thanks God for saved link*

Anyways, it is true that at this point Chief is the only one in the dark at this moment about the Ark. I think the Separatists still at Halo Delta are going to make their primary objective to get the heck out of dodge. After such, they'd (Arbiter and company) probably make a b-line for Earth because of Keyes and Johnson's want to help the Chief.

And to open up the thread a little...
Chief's immediate objectives seem to be:
Assassinate Truth
Kick Loyalist Ass

Chief's long term objectives are:
Contain/destroy the Flood
Deactivate/destroy the Halo weapons

Any other realistic goals for the Chief that we know about for sure?

The Moniters
Also, we all know 343 Guilty Spark and perhaps 2401 Penitent Tangent want the Halos activated, but why? They are AI constructs not too dissimilar from Cortana able to make somewhat autonomous decisions, so why are they so intent on firing up the Halos to destroy life? Why the heck did 343 Guilty Spark tell the Heretic leader the truth of the Halos if it knew (lets assume that that Spark is somewhat perceptive) the Heretic leader would object their activation? 343 Guilty Spark wasn't so inclined to give the information until the last second, so what was the point of that? 2401 Penitent Tangent was seemingly being controlled by Gravemind, so does this mean that Gravemind/Flood can assimilate machinery?

Naming in Halo seems to be of some importance in Halo, as in Arbiter, Flood, etc. Why are the Moniters called, well, Moniters? If they are to just watch over the facilities, why are they (really only 343 Guilty Spark for the moment) so intent on activating them? Are they just Moniters of the Halos, or Moniters of the galaxy/universe? Why do they take such an active role in the story?

Gravemind and Cortana
I say controlled because Flood never had the use of teleportation(it was used on Chief and Arbiter) before Tangent got absorbed by Gravemind. It in can assimilate technology like that, than this is likely the interaction between Cortana and Gravemind as well?

Lets keep it going!

  • 05.15.2006 2:27 AM PDT
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I was reading another post just then and I came to realize a certain fact: Though Regret jumped his capital ship to Halo Delta, his forces remained to capitalize on their initial attack...and his forces are lead primarily by ELITES (!!!) with no Brutes in sight! So we have a group of Elites that may in fact be Loyalist that aren't faced with the problem of working alongside Brutes.

This leaves me to ask: Who is left to side with Truth? He seems to have left the vast majority of Brute-aligned Loyalists on High Charity to be slaughtered by the flood. Does he hope to gain the assistance of the Elite-aligned Loyalists which have been busy with their conquest of Earth? What happens to the Elite Loyalists when they hear from the Elite Separatists? Hmm...

[Edited on 5/15/2006]

  • 05.15.2006 2:48 AM PDT
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But Cortana says in Halo 2 that Regret is going to lead the Covenant Fleet to Earth. How does the Covenant go from civil war one moment, to invading Earth the next? Did the Brutes deal with the Elites first, then go to earth, and they simply didn't cover that fact in Halo 2?

And some of you say that some Elites will be Loyal to the Prophets and their religion. True, but wasn't it Truth that ordered the Elites to b killed? I still don't get what started the civil war in the first place. There are events that happen in Halo 2 which don't seem to be explained. Who started the Civil war and why?

  • 05.15.2006 3:00 AM PDT
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Regret left his forces when he jumped to Halo Delta. They've been waging a campaign ever since assumedly. There was a changing of the guard, Regret has died, and the Covenant civil disunion may not have reached Regret's forces yet. I wouldn't say Covenant split has reached the level of civil war yet because we do not know the current alignment of the widespread Covenant forces, and besides, Truth could play the Elites by saying Tartarus had 'falling from the light...blah blah' and coerced the Elite Loyalists around Earth to stay on his side.

  • 05.15.2006 3:10 AM PDT
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The monnitors want to activate the Halo's to stop the out-break. thats the purpose of the rings , and the purpose of the Monitors is to watch over the rings and help the sentient life activate them when the need arises.

But that's another thing. Who realsed the Flood on the the first levels of the Arbiter? the Heretics? Why? And why did the forerunners keep the flood on the rings in the first place?

  • 05.15.2006 3:21 AM PDT
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sorry to go on like this, but there's another thing I've just remembered. I would assume that Truth went to earth to find the Arc. But he sent tartarus to activate Delta halo. Why? To begin the great Journey? but then why bother invading earth? I recon Truth knows the truth about the rings. In which case, perhaps it was to detroy life around Delta Halo to paralyze the Flood? But then the Flood already had enough hosts...

And so what would Truth want with the Arc? To actiavate all the rings, and kill all life in the galaxy except the ones in the Arc? (presumably himself and the loyalists- but then if he sent tartarus to activate the Delta Halo, knowing fully well that he would die, then it seems Truth is playing everyone the Brutes as well..). In which case, how could Truth anticipate that the Arbiter would be alive to stop Tartarus, and deactivate Delta Halo, thus enabling all the rings to be activated from the Arc? That would mean he could see the future! Or perhaps he didn't anticipate it all: in which case, what did he want with the Arc?

My head hurts.

  • 05.15.2006 3:34 AM PDT
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the heretics had captured some flood and were studying them for reasons unknown(i think) and i believe that quite simply, the flood on the halos were all that we saw because they were there and knew the halos were firing. each gravemind orders all the flood on his halo into hibernation mode, and all the rest of the flood tearing about the galaxy looking for food starve to death.

  • 05.15.2006 3:39 AM PDT

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The covenant carriers began to jump to earth well before the civil war began, i'd say that the covenant at Earth would be unified until about third way into H3

  • 05.15.2006 3:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: Phsychre

sorry to go on like this, but there's another thing I've just remembered. I would assume that Truth went to earth to find the Arc. But he sent tartarus to activate Delta halo. Why? To begin the great Journey? but then why bother invading earth? I recon Truth knows the truth about the rings. In which case, perhaps it was to detroy life around Delta Halo to paralyze the Flood? But then the Flood already had enough hosts...

And so what would Truth want with the Arc? To actiavate all the rings, and kill all life in the galaxy except the ones in the Arc? (presumably himself and the loyalists- but then if he sent tartarus to activate the Delta Halo, knowing fully well that he would die, then it seems Truth is playing everyone the Brutes as well..). In which case, how could Truth anticipate that the Arbiter would be alive to stop Tartarus, and deactivate Delta Halo, thus enabling all the rings to be activated from the Arc? That would mean he could see the future! Or perhaps he didn't anticipate it all: in which case, what did he want with the Arc?

My head hurts.


There is a theory that inside the Ark the Halo's won't effect you, if Truth and only a few loyal followers are inside when the Rings activate then he would be ruler of the galaxy. Seems like a good reason to me.

  • 05.15.2006 4:08 AM PDT
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For all intents and purposes, Earth was already under Covenant control at the end of H2. There was just some scattered last-ditch attempts at resistance from a few surviving MAC stations (like Lord Hood's).
Knowing this (Bungie people have said it too), it's safe to assume that the Seperatists haven't exactly arrived yet to "save" Earth. Which puts pressure on Truth to get that dome thing going asap. Lucky for him, Regret did most of the excavation with his in-atmosphere slipspace jump.
Hmm...

  • 05.15.2006 5:09 AM PDT
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There is a theory that inside the Ark the Halo's won't effect you, if Truth and only a few loyal followers are inside when the Rings activate then he would be ruler of the galaxy. Seems like a good reason to me.

thats what i assume. but that means he knew delta halo would be deactivated. considering it's mostly due to arbiter- who would be dead if not gravemind- that the ring was deactivated, how did truth know he would be alive? hold on, what if tartarus got keyes to insert the index, then got to her take it out? i suppose thats a possibility...

  • 05.15.2006 5:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Phsychre
There is a theory that inside the Ark the Halo's won't effect you, if Truth and only a few loyal followers are inside when the Rings activate then he would be ruler of the galaxy. Seems like a good reason to me.

thats what i assume. but that means he knew delta halo would be deactivated. considering it's mostly due to arbiter- who would be dead if not gravemind- that the ring was deactivated, how did truth know he would be alive? hold on, what if tartarus got keyes to insert the index, then got to her take it out? i suppose thats a possibility...


Not neceraly, maybe he didn't think Tartarus would get to the control chamber that quickly or he was right and Truth is already on Earth when the battle between the Arbiter and Tartarus begins: we don't know the exact timelines.

  • 05.15.2006 6:08 AM PDT
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Well, that's an interesting oversight. You know after all this time I haven't considered the Ark being the final safe haven from the flood (which seems like it would have automatically set in since I've done all this other thinking *doh*) from which to activate the Halos.
Posted by: Jaffer
Not neceraly, maybe he didn't think Tartarus would get to the control chamber that quickly or he was right and Truth is already on Earth when the battle between the Arbiter and Tartarus begins: we don't know the exact timelines.

Figuring Truth's Intent
Anyways, so Truth sent Tartarus knowingly to his doom on Halo Delta. Now if I remember correctly, doesn't Tartarus say "The Heirarchs ordered it!" instead of "The Prophets ordered it!"? Now I understand that he could still be talking about the Prophets, but this line of dialogue leaves enough space for one to think that maybe, just maybe, he was referring to Brute Heirarchs like Elites referred to their Elite Heirarchs. Tartarus may well have overstepped his boundaries when he did in some of the Elites. The Prophets created the Covenant with the Elites way back when because they were loosing their war, right?

This changing of the guard could be the Prophet's last blow before they activate the Halos and incinerate everyone else beside those who are loyal to them. It would seem to me that Tartarus jumped the gun instead of waiting like the Prophets would have told him. What do they have to gain from disgruntling the Elites before the fabled Great Journey that would kill them anyway? Nothing. Friends close, enemies closer. Truth may still be fighting an age-old war.

Truth may well tell the Elites, "Go observe the Divine Light perched atop the highest vista of our capital ships. You deserve it."

Gravemind(s)?
Someone mentioned that there was more than one Gravemind earlier. We're trying to stick as close to the facts as possible, so where did you find this? Also, I think the Flood would have only one central core, because a few would just convolute things for various reasons. The Flood seem to use anything they have at their disposal, so there could be secondary graveminds (or that flood form which Captain Keyes was turning into) which just follow the intent of the Primary Gravemind.

[Edited on 5/15/2006]

  • 05.15.2006 9:49 AM PDT

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