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Subject: Should open groups require you to join to participate?

I'm assuming groups will get a makeover in the next site update so this is might be useless, but for the sake of discussion, assume that they're not.

Open groups should be just that, open. You shouldn't have to join to see the forum, post, submit news, etc... If an open group is open, its contents should also be publically accessible just like the public forums (ie. you don't have to be a member of the site to read them).

Thoughts?

  • 01.23.2012 11:11 PM PDT

|Best group|FileShare|Bungie.me Profile|Do it!|Click here!

If I am not posting, then I am reading what you might have posted.

You are making threads more often. :D


Yeah, I know what you mean that is the kind of thing that I was hoping when I started getting in to groups, I wanted to see their forums and see what kind of discussion was going on.

I think that this would be good for people to see, what is going on and what to expect.

  • 01.23.2012 11:14 PM PDT

In a perfect world where everyone on the internet plays nice, I like this idea. But the thought of being so open that you could have people not in your group spamming the forums without accountability or chance to be banned is a scary thought. Not to mention all the naughty submitted/posted news stories.

Edit: I guess you could ban the user even if they weren't a part of the group. But, I feel that if you're willing to be an active member of an "open group," you should be willing to make two quick clicks to join said "open group." It would also skew the perception of the activity of the group from the outside (AKA many active members but not many are joined members, therefore a small member count).

[Edited on 01.23.2012 11:23 PM PST]

  • 01.23.2012 11:16 PM PDT
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Yeah, I was actually surprised not to see that setting. They could even include the ability to create topics that are for members only or certain member ranks only.

Can't you set it up so that non-members can post and view your group's forums (although it's either both or none)? I thought I saw that in settings somewhere...

Edit: Never-mind, I'm just crazy.
This role is a special system role: all non-members of your group that visit are assigned the permissions in this role. Certain permissions cannot be granted to this role, and will not be available.

[Edited on 01.23.2012 11:22 PM PST]

  • 01.23.2012 11:17 PM PDT

I think you should be able to view them, but not post them.

  • 01.23.2012 11:17 PM PDT

"That's about all that can be said for plots, which anyway are just one thing after another, a what and a what and a what.

Now try how and why."

It would certainly lower the barrier of entry on some of the more general group forums. After all, we can only be in fifty groups at a time. A large limit, but the very existence of the limit can turn group membership into a commodity. It would also be nice to be able to get a sense of a group before joining.

On the other hand, it seems like it might diminish some of the sense of solidarity that can occur in a group with definite members. Even this isn't definite, but it's the only major issue I can think of.

[Edited on 01.23.2012 11:20 PM PST]

  • 01.23.2012 11:18 PM PDT

Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
In a perfect world where everyone on the internet plays nice, I like this idea. But the thought of being so open that you could have people not in your group spamming the forums without accountability or chance to be banned is a scary thought. Not to mention all the naughty submitted/posted news stories.
Why would you not be able to blacklist people? In fact, you can already blacklist people who aren't members of a group.

  • 01.23.2012 11:22 PM PDT

Posted by: dazarobbo
Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
In a perfect world where everyone on the internet plays nice, I like this idea. But the thought of being so open that you could have people not in your group spamming the forums without accountability or chance to be banned is a scary thought. Not to mention all the naughty submitted/posted news stories.
Why would you not be able to blacklist people? In fact, you can already blacklist people who aren't members of a group.
Ninja'd my edit. Check my edit and feel free to respond row boat ;)

  • 01.23.2012 11:23 PM PDT
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Total members has never been a good measure of activity anyway.
Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
It would also skew the perception of the activity of the group from the outside (AKA many active members but not many are joined members, therefore a small member count).

  • 01.23.2012 11:29 PM PDT

Posted by: Lobster Fish 2
In a perfect world where everyone on the internet plays nice, I like this idea. But the thought of being so open that you could have people not in your group spamming the forums without accountability or chance to be banned is a scary thought. Not to mention all the naughty submitted/posted news stories.

Edit: I guess you could ban the user even if they weren't a part of the group. But, I feel that if you're willing to be an active member of an "open group," you should be willing to make two quick clicks to join said "open group." It would also skew the perception of the activity of the group from the outside (AKA many active members but not many are joined members, therefore a small member count).

Couldn't have said it better. It'd be, for lack of a better phrase, a gigantic pain in the ass to delete spam that anybody could make without even joining the group. Yeah, you can ban anyone on the site from your group if you know their UID (even if they haven't even been queued to join) if you know how, but even that's kind of annoying.

I don't think this is a bad idea in itself, and I'd probably try it out and I wouldn't whine if it were implemented, but I wouldn't use it myself.

  • 01.24.2012 12:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: dazarobbo
I'm assuming groups will get a makeover in the next site update so this is might be useless, but for the sake of discussion, assume that they're not.

Open groups should be just that, open. You shouldn't have to join to see the forum, post, submit news, etc... If an open group is open, its contents should also be publically accessible just like the public forums (ie. you don't have to be a member of the site to read them).

Thoughts?


I agree some what.

I agree, to see the forum of an open group without joining should/could be fine.

I disagree with the ability to post to a group that is open without joining. Being able to post to a group without joining will circumvent that groups moderation staff and their ability. You would essentially be creating another public forum that would escape the forum ninja's authority and potentially overwhelm the local staff's ability.

  • 01.24.2012 12:15 AM PDT
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Can't users do that to open groups already? They only need to press the join and accept buttons...
Posted by: bobcast
I disagree with the ability to post to a group that is open without joining. Being able to post to a group without joining will circumvent that groups moderation staff and their ability. You would essentially be creating another public forum that would escape the forum ninja's authority and potentially overwhelm the local staff's ability.

  • 01.24.2012 12:33 AM PDT

I suspect llamas are secretly wizards. I <3 poptarts n' milk. I like me. Grimick is defined as: a logical parodox, the act of funnaling a potato down your throat, and a deliciously flavored muffin (with pecons and blueberries). Norway is the Swedish word for 'moron'. My sister has cancer, so i get to use handicap parking and cut small children in line at Disneyland.

"Don't eat doughnuts on thin ice."

"The pancake, my friend, has officially been flipped."

I think that should be an option available to the group administrator for sure.

  • 01.24.2012 12:35 AM PDT

@Izak: He's assuming we would be unable to moderate those who aren't members of the group, which would be awful.

  • 01.24.2012 12:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jay120171
Bobcast: the only ninja to operate an ER out of his mom's basement


Posted by: Izak609
Can't users do that to open groups already? They only need to press the join and accept buttons...
Posted by: bobcast
I disagree with the ability to post to a group that is open without joining. Being able to post to a group without joining will circumvent that groups moderation staff and their ability. You would essentially be creating another public forum that would escape the forum ninja's authority and potentially overwhelm the local staff's ability.


They could.

But you would be surprised how much two clicks can discourage spam/trolling attacks.

All it would take for a group to be overwhelmed would be a single link to their forum. Even in the flood that could be an onslaught for a small group staff.

  • 01.24.2012 12:48 AM PDT
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That makes sense. But now I really want to see how big of a difference it can make...
Posted by: bobcast
But you would be surprised how much two clicks can discourage spam/trolling attacks.

  • 01.24.2012 1:12 AM PDT

Posted by: ctjl96
Couldn't have said it better. It'd be, for lack of a better phrase, a gigantic pain in the ass to delete spam that anybody could make without even joining the group.
As opposed to the three seconds it takes to join an open group and post it anyway? That's a pretty weak argument to make.

Posted by: ctjl96
Yeah, you can ban anyone on the site from your group if you know their UID (even if they haven't even been queued to join) if you know how, but even that's kind of annoying.
No, you only need their username and access to the Blacklist Management page in the Admin Tools section of the group.

  • 01.24.2012 2:01 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten

I have seen groups where non-members can see the forums but the hidden forum is an incentive to join the group.

"become a member to see and participate in the forums".

If you can see everything from the sidelines, what is the point of joining the group? I think it would decrease group activity.

[Edited on 01.24.2012 3:19 AM PST]

  • 01.24.2012 3:18 AM PDT

<(-_-)> Teh mokey is not amused

Perhaps you should be able to view them, but not use them.

  • 01.24.2012 3:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: spartain ken 15
I have seen groups where non-members can see the forums but the hidden forum is an incentive to join the group.

"become a member to see and participate in the forums".
Ummm, what?

  • 01.24.2012 3:23 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: komark
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I have seen groups where non-members can see the forums but the hidden forum is an incentive to join the group.

"become a member to see and participate in the forums".
Ummm, what?


If people can see all the posts and are "lurkers", there is no need for them to be a member of your group. So, you would be losing members to your group.

  • 01.24.2012 3:24 AM PDT
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Join ODST Expeditionary Force for a more mature, friendly community!


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: komark
Posted by: spartain ken 15
I have seen groups where non-members can see the forums but the hidden forum is an incentive to join the group.

"become a member to see and participate in the forums".
Ummm, what?


If people can see all the posts and are "lurkers", there is no need for them to be a member of your group. So, you would be losing members to your group.
What groups are you talking about that you can see their forums without posting?

  • 01.24.2012 3:27 AM PDT

Now, in the quantum moment before the closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time.

I know who you are.

You are Destiny.

I swear about 4-5 years ago you could do this..

  • 01.24.2012 3:30 AM PDT

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