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  • Subject: A Cortana/Forerunner/Gravemind Theory. <<MAJOR UPDATE>>
Subject: A Cortana/Forerunner/Gravemind Theory. <<MAJOR UPDATE>>
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side note: aren't you glad i have the skills to efficiently label my thread with a relavent name that isn't in all caps?

edit for mods: sorry i bumped in my last thread about this, had no idea that was a new rule!




The Cortana/Forerunner/Gravemind Thread

The purpose of this thread is mainly to compile as many different facts, ideas, theories, and information regarding Cortana, her going rampant, and the possibility of gravemind controlling/influencing her.



My Theory:

Updated with new ideas!

Ok. At the end of Halo 2, Cortana was left at High Charity. While MC was still at High Charity, cortana repeatedly talks about the presence of another AI in the system. I don't think it's gravemind, i'll get to him, i think it's a Forerunner AI. Previously i thought the AI was covenant, but i don't think so anymore. I thought about it and i thought about two things: where cortana was, and where cortana had been.

Cortana is in High Charity with John. What is HC? It's not a covenant ship, it's a forerunner ship. that's where cortana is now.

Now think back to the books. On the Unyeilding Heirophant, a covenant ship, cortana encounters a covie AI. She then combats it by placing copies of herself into the network. Cortana easily "defeats" this AI.

Again into past events. This time in halo 2. when John jumps off the structure and into the water at the end of the level Delta Halo, cortana is with him. Though i don't think there is definitive evidence that cortana is "conscious" or operating during MC's chat with the gravemind, i think she is. I think that''s backed up by the fact that she never questions John's actions after his encounter with the gravemind.

So now cortana is familiar with covenant AI and with the Gravemind.

Now when you add both the past and the present, you find that cortana has been around the covie AI and could spot one easily now, and that she had seen the gravemind, and could also identify it, then, in the present, she's inside a Forerunner ship.

Now combine that with cortana's complaints that the "presense" inside the network is something she hasn''t seen before. (I'm working on grabbing some quotes from the game to back this up) Since cortana knows what the covie AI are like and knows what the gravemind is like, she wuldn't say it was new to her if it was covie. which makes me believe that the "presence" is the only option remaining -- forerunner.

Now it's only natural to think that since Cortana is an intruding presence on the network of the High Charity ship's system, the forerunner AI would try to attack and remove the intruder. So i think a sort of battle or 'rootwar' took place between the two AI forces. Originally i thought that Cortana would win this battle, but then i got to thinking about what if she didn't. cortana never complained about the first covie AI she encountered, she kind of just worked around it without much of a problem. I think this AI is different. like a different breed of AI altogether. it's stronger, faster, more than cortana.

So IF cortana were to be destroyed by this AI, could something similar to what happened to John and the arbiter take place? I mean where they are transported somehow to be with the gravemind. If cortana is pretty much defeated and almost killed like MC while running off the structure after killing regret, could she too be put into the presence of the gravemind? She was likely with him the first time with gravemind. If this were to happen it would explain the lines from the trailer, "I know you, your past, your future. This is the way the world ends.". Cortana sees through the gravemind what was, is, and will happen. Simply put, Cortana gets the sight of Gravemind.


This new 'sight', added to the unsorted info from the halo ring(s) and her battle with the forerunner AI could easily lead to Cortana's rampancy.

For those who don't know, rampancy is where an AI collects and retains sooooo much information and tries to learn and make sense of all of it, that the AI basically thinks itself to death, and has no more memory capacity to take in anyhing new, and therefore the thought process stops.

cortana has shown early signs of rampancy when she sometimes repeats things, or gives unnecessary info. Also, we know that cortana has the ability to go rampant because the copies of herself that she made to combat a covie AI on the Unyeilding Heirophant became rampant because there were too many of the same AI, collecting overlapping info in one place.

if cortana is rampant, it would explain her seemingly starange messeage, presumeably to John-117. If she's not, then her message is just a show of what she's seen, and her attempts to warn, and prevent "the way the world ends"

While i know this theory is far-fetched, i think it has some very good points, especially the possibility of Cortana being with the Gravemind at some point.

you guys let me know what you think!

-GH0STce11

[Edited on 5/15/2006]

  • 05.15.2006 9:19 PM PDT
Subject: A Cortana/Forerunner/Gravemind Theory.
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I think It sounds like it could be plossible. I have read the books and after she went to halo and got in the controll system she does act different. So ya I think it could happen

  • 05.15.2006 9:24 PM PDT
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Just a tidbit: When Cortana was "battling" the Covenant AI onboard the Ascendant Justice, she was doing some massive multitasking work at the same time, which is why she didn't bother with it much. She was too busy trying to keep the Chief and other humans alive to deal with it. However, once she finally got sick of the other AI, she didn't just get rid of it, she compeltely DESTROYED it, as in it proved no real threat to her once she focused on it.

Even though this AI was full of errors due to the copying program, I highly doubt she would have a lot of trouble dealing with a more powerful version. This is because, once she figured out that the AI(s) aboard High Charity were a lot stronger than the one she fought before, she would focus a lot of her power on eliminating it/them from the system, and not just try to work around them. THe game doesn't go into much detail about what Cortana actually does, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it didn't tell you that she got rid of the other AI.

  • 05.15.2006 9:29 PM PDT
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It is a good theory, and that flagship is call "Unyielding Hierophant".

  • 05.15.2006 9:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: xGH0STce11x

Now it's only natural to think that since Cortana is an intruding presence on the covenant battlenet, the covie AI would try to attack and remove the intruder. So i think a sort of battle or 'rootwar' took place between the two AI forces. Originally i thought that Cortana would win this battle, but then i got to thinking about what if she didn't. cortana never complained about the first covie AI she encountered, she kind of just worked around it without much of a problem. I think this covie AI is different. stronger. better than cortana.

So IF cortana were to be destroyed by this AI, could something similar to what happened to John and the arbiter take place? I mean where they are transported somehow to be with the gravemind. If cortana is pretty much defeated and almost killed like MC while running off the structure after killing regret, could she too be put into the presence of the gravemind? If this were to happen it would explain the lines from the trailer, "I know you, your past, your future. This is the way the world ends.". Cortana see through the gravemind what was happening. Simply put, Cortana gets the sight of Gravemind.


Clarification

You say what if she is destroyed... but then go on to talk about her doing "crazy" things, do you mean "what if she is being controled by the covie AI" or "what if she is damaged by the covie AI" or "What if the covie AI/Gravemind is impersonating Cortana"

  • 05.15.2006 9:33 PM PDT

I'm not sure if this has been posted or not, but from what can hear, Cortana is being controlled by the Gravemind. If you have a HD sound system connected to your computer, download nad play the trailer (the one from bungie) and listed to the first 2 statements by Cortana. You can hear the Gravemind in the background. It's sorta freeky, but that's what I hear. Maybe this'll help clear up a few things. (if this hasn't already been posted)

Thanks,
CG DAGinator

  • 05.15.2006 9:34 PM PDT
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Yes, I also think the Gravemind is controlling Cortana. I can hear his voice too.

  • 05.15.2006 9:36 PM PDT
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Either gravemind is controlling cortana or they both just allied together or cortana have known this all along!!!!

  • 05.15.2006 9:45 PM PDT
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There is also this possibility:

At the end of Halo 2, when Gravemind's tentacle approaches Cortana, it seems like Cortana is willing to listen/talk to Gravemind, at least to some extent. If, through their discussion, Cortana formulated that, at the moment, the Covenant proved to be a greater threat to humanity's existence than the Flood. Since the Flood seem fairly limited in their ability to travel (only Gravemind seems to be able to operate complex machinery), the chances of the Flood reaching every single human-inhabited planet is very, very small. The chances of the Covenant reaching the Ark and activating the Halos, however, are very high, and thus lead to a greater threat.

Since Cortana's primary functions are the accomplishment of her mission(s), followed by the survival of the Master Chief, followed by the preservation of humanity as a whole, it would make sense that Cortana might end up allying - temporarily - with Gravemind in order to stop their common enemy, the Covenant: Her primary mission - the capture of a Covenant prophet - is basically scrapped; she has become separated from the Master Chief by a few thousand lightyears, so she really can't insure his survival. Therefore, the general command of the preservation of humanity is currently her top priority.

If, as stated above, Cortana has made a temporary alliance with Gravemind, then she could have partially merged with him. If she sent a transmission while merged, there is a good possiblity of both hers and Graveminds personalities/words/voices being transmitted, which we can hear during the transmission.

Also, since Cortana is basically a large mass of artificial neural pathways, by merging with Gravemind in some form, her body could have become semi-solid, which is why she looks funny in the transmission during the trailer.

  • 05.15.2006 9:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mytheral
Posted by: xGH0STce11x

Now it's only natural to think that since Cortana is an intruding presence on the covenant battlenet, the covie AI would try to attack and remove the intruder. So i think a sort of battle or 'rootwar' took place between the two AI forces. Originally i thought that Cortana would win this battle, but then i got to thinking about what if she didn't. cortana never complained about the first covie AI she encountered, she kind of just worked around it without much of a problem. I think this covie AI is different. stronger. better than cortana.

So IF cortana were to be destroyed by this AI, could something similar to what happened to John and the arbiter take place? I mean where they are transported somehow to be with the gravemind. If cortana is pretty much defeated and almost killed like MC while running off the structure after killing regret, could she too be put into the presence of the gravemind? If this were to happen it would explain the lines from the trailer, "I know you, your past, your future. This is the way the world ends.". Cortana see through the gravemind what was happening. Simply put, Cortana gets the sight of Gravemind.


Clarification

You say what if she is destroyed... but then go on to talk about her doing "crazy" things, do you mean "what if she is being controled by the covie AI" or "what if she is damaged by the covie AI" or "What if the covie AI/Gravemind is impersonating Cortana"

actually i mean it in the sam way as what happened to John.

he is pretty wiped from that laser thing that hit the building at the end of delta Halo. i think he was killed, and brought back to life because of his pivotal role in the fate of the universe.

maybe something similar could happen to cortana?


also, i updated the theory alot, and corrected a few erorrs. i think this time it explains why cortana would not be able to combat the AI within High charity

  • 05.15.2006 9:50 PM PDT
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Nice...................anyway this is my first time being a member...Hi to everybody LOL!!!!!

  • 05.15.2006 9:50 PM PDT
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lol, welcome to the forums!

  • 05.15.2006 9:52 PM PDT
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Here is a link to the cortana letters:
http://marathon.bungie.org/story/cortana.html#6
i dont think anyone mentioned them before, but they are letters bungie made to the marathon story page to kind of introduce halo to the marathon fans.
They were all made before halo was even officially announced.

Some of the quotes that she makes in the trailer come directly from the letters.

I think that she is allied with gravemind now and that she has learned an incredible amount of information and is now trying to share it with the cheif.

Thus the messages in the trailer...

  • 05.15.2006 10:03 PM PDT
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Gravemind Controlling Cortana:
I don't buy into this theory. Cortana is a computer where as Gravemind is organic. Unless there is some sort of interface ala the Chiefs updated neural lace (standard Marines don't have the same lace as the Chief nor did any of the other Spartans) it's just not possible for it to take over her.

Verdict: Highly Unlikely.

Cortana's going rampant:
Maybe, but I'm not sure Cortana is 7 years old yet. Personally I don't think so, plus it's too darn obvious an answere.

Verdict: Possible.

Another AI has damaged her:
Could hold some truth. She was dealing with somthing that was apperently more advanced then she was near the end of Halo 2.

Verdict: Possible.

It's not Cortana at all:
It could be another AI in Cortana skin, but why?

Verdict: Barely Possible

It's another Cortana:
Could be, but it would require some mad voodoo story telling to make it work, but it is possible in the context of the books and it's time warping crystals.

Verdict: Barely Possible.

Cortana's develped a split personality:
This one is possible. She could have been infected by the other AI on the Forerunner ship and is now two distictly differnet characters fighting for control.

Verdict: Very Possible.

Cortana's crazy... Crazy like a Fox:
She's just playing along and is actually using the Gravemind just as it thinks it's using her.

Verdict: Very Possible.

In the end I don't think the whole truth is being presented and Bungie is leading us down a path that is likley not going to end the way everyone thinks it will. Personally I think that what Gravemind is talking too at the end of Halo 2 is either not Cortana, is another Cortana or is a split personality Cortana. I think this because the last time we see the Cortana she was seeing the MC off and was quite sad to see him go for that matter. Then the last scene after the credits shows a rather diabolical looking Cortana getting chummy with the Flood Gravemind. It does'nt add.






[Edited on 5/15/2006]

  • 05.15.2006 10:12 PM PDT
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I'm not 100% positive, but I *think* Bungie has stated that the Cortana letters are non Halo canon, and therefore can't really be analyzed for anything. However, since some of what Cortana says in the trailer is like parts of the messages in the letters, there is a possiblity that, while the letters as a whole are not canon, a few pieces of them are truthful.

Gravemind Controlling Cortana:
I don't buy into this theory. Cortana is a computer where as Gravemind is organic. Unless there is some sort of interface ala the Chiefs updated neural lace (standard Marines don't have the same Neural lace as the Chief, and for that matter neither did any of the other Spartans) it's just not possible for it to take over her.


Cybernetics. The blending of organic and mechanical systems. Every marine in the UNSC has a neural interface, just not as complex as the Master Chief's. Since there were some marines onboard High Charty, it is logical that, between the two of them, Cortana and Gravemind could have modified the interface from a dead marine to allow Cortana to merge with Gravemind.

Cortana's going rampant:
Maybe, but I not sure Cortana is 7 years old yet. Personally I don;t think so.


I don't know here exact age either, however, Cortana seems to be a little different than normal AI's, so I'm not *entirely* sure that the 7-year lifespan fits her exactly. Yes, I know that it says in the book multiple times that smart AI's live for only 7 years, but like I said, I think she's different. This would be easy to implement into the games, as nowhere in either of them has it been sated that she can live for only 7 years.

Another AI has damaged her:
Possible.

It's not Cortana at all:
Possible again, and could be another AI in Cortana skin, but why, and for that reason I doubt this one.

It's another Cortana:
Could be, but it would require some mad voodoo story telling to make it work, but it is possible in the context of the books and it's time warping crystals.

Cortana's develped a split personality:
This one is possible. She could have been infected by the other AI on the forerunner ship and is now two distictly differnet characters both fighting for control.


While possible, it is very hard for an AI to become damaged. In order for this to happen, another AI would have to isolate her completely, in such a way that she couldn't stop that AI from messing up her code. If, however, this happened, why wouldn't it just destroy her completely?

Each AI chooses it's own avatar, so the chances of another AI choosing one that is so similar is very unlikely.

Like the first part, it would be almost impossible for an AI to develop a "second personality" as we would normally describe it. This would entail a second "mind" developing in a portion of her code - which is, technically speaking, impossible. The closest thing would be when she uses the copying program from the Covenant AI to make a copy of herself. Since these copies have errors in them, it is possible that she made a copy, the copy was overpowered by the Covenant AI in High Charity, and then corrupted to fight against Cortana. While unlikely, this could prove challenging, as it would be almost like fighting a mirrior of oneself.

[Edited on 5/15/2006]

  • 05.15.2006 10:13 PM PDT
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Cortana is in High Charity with John. What is HC? It's not a covenant ship, it's a forerunner ship. that's where cortana is now.

High Charity isn't a forerunner ship, it's the name of the Covenant Holy City. Load up the first level of H2 if you don't believe me.

  • 05.15.2006 10:16 PM PDT
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yeah i know what the letters are, look at my sig.

thats not really relevant to this though.


as to the state of cortana and gravemind.
i believe someting happened, maybe it was just an encounter where they shared info, and cortana learned of the true ark.

or maybe gravemind somehow got inside the network and cortana was able to dissect him and find the info that way.

i dunno about gravemind and cortana working together though, seems likely that they'd ally, at least temporarily to combat their common enemy, the covenamt.

  • 05.15.2006 10:17 PM PDT
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oh child don't get all technical!

yes high charity is the city around the forerunner ship.

i mean that place where cortana is plugged into is where the forerunner ship is too.


EDIT: sorry for dp.

[Edited on 5/15/2006]

  • 05.15.2006 10:19 PM PDT
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I have the trailor downloaded on my 360, and with my 5.1, I distinctly heard a female half grunt/half scream just before her first line in the trailer. Put that together with the fact that you can clearly both hear and SEE recognizable aspects of Gravemind in the trailer, and who knows?

  • 05.16.2006 12:03 AM PDT
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Think of it like this:

Prophets race (whatever they are) find forerunner tablets or some artefact with forerunner language on it. How do they know what it says? How do they know that these rings will bring them salvation if they cannot read this relic.

Answer...Some forerunners are alive! They know that their race is dead and need to die before the flood get them. So they turn the prophets into a cult that worships them as gods to activate the HALOs for "salvation". They translate their texts for the new covenant and help them on their way to finding the rings.

And I think all this time they've been on that forerunner ship, stopping cortana from preventing the launch.

  • 05.16.2006 12:15 AM PDT
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Wouldn't she have faced a similar Forerunner AI when she was plugged into the Control Panel in H.CE. And on the subject of the neaural implant. Seems to me that the only people who are called Reclaimer have one. MC, Miranda Keyes, and to a lesser extent Capt. Keyes. Which would explain his use on the bridge of the Covie ship instead of being turned into a combat form.

(edit to add:(sorry it's 2 am here))

Meaning Gravemind could have similar implant allowing the Cortana/Gravemind hookup.


[Edited on 5/16/2006]

  • 05.16.2006 12:19 AM PDT
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As I said before, ALL UNSC personel have a neural implant: officers and soldiers alike. The only difference is what *type* they have - a commander's implant is going to be more sophisticated than your average private's implant is.

The reason Captain Keyes couldn't be turned into a combat form was because of the type of neural implant he had. It gave his mind something to focus on, so the Flood couldn't completely take over his mind. When it noticed this, it wanted the information in his head, and thus turned him intot he big blob form (does it have a name?)

  • 05.16.2006 12:24 AM PDT
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you're naut cookin'

I just think I should point out something, Cortana and Master Chief are a "galaxy apart" at the moment. If Cortana tried to contact MC with a message, it would take hundreds of thousands of years to reach him on Earth.

I dont think its a message. Prehaps a recent memory?

  • 05.16.2006 12:27 AM PDT
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I believe in either Halo: CE or the book The Flood, 343 Guilty Spark tells us that the Halos have a system of superliminal-communications.

Even without this, the humans can send messages to people in other galaxies, and have those messages received fairly quickly, indicating faster-than-light travel.

  • 05.16.2006 12:32 AM PDT