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Subject: Cortana can't go rampant
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they "think" themselves to death

  • 05.16.2006 6:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: D0K74 J0N35
did crintora get teh 7 year itch from mc?


Woah learn to type and when she is angry ill keep quoting that never ending line

Hell Hath No Fury Like A Women Scorned

  • 05.16.2006 6:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: GhosteofSpecter
Posted by: D0K74 J0N35
did crintora get teh 7 year itch from mc?


Woah learn to type. [and] when she is angry i'll keep quoting that never ending line.

Hell Hath No Fury Like A Women Scorned


the "apostrophe" is two to the right of the L. the "period" is two to the right of the M.

you're the man now dog!!!

  • 05.16.2006 6:56 PM PDT
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Computers cannot process undefined data: dividing a number by 0 throws out an error by any properly made computer system (i.e. you could program that X/0 = 1, but that doesn't mean it's true).

Due to their nature of being able to think about virtually any topic, "smart" AIs can store many times more data than "dumb" AIs can. When this happens, they eventually start running into paradoxes throughout their systems. While one or two of these may not do too much damage (i.e. the AI tries to process it, fails,, identifies it as a paradoxial situation, and deletes it from memory so it can't immediately process it again). However, like doing a normal deletion of information off a hard drive, that information is still there, and in the case of an AI, is there permanently - there is no way to overwrite that data. This means that they will eventually think of more paradoxial situations, until any path that their thoughts can take will eventually lead them to a paradox of some sort. When this happens, the AI can no longer function and is, for all intents and purposes, "dead."

  • 05.16.2006 6:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: Aerien
Computers cannot process undefined data: dividing a number by 0 throws out an error by any properly made computer system (i.e. you could program that X/0 = 1, but that doesn't mean it's true).

Due to their nature of being able to think about virtually any topic, "smart" AIs can store many times more data than "dumb" AIs can. When this happens, they eventually start running into paradoxes throughout their systems. While one or two of these may not do too much damage (i.e. the AI tries to process it, fails,, identifies it as a paradoxial situation, and deletes it from memory so it can't immediately process it again). However, like doing a normal deletion of information off a hard drive, that information is still there, and in the case of an AI, is there permanently - there is no way to overwrite that data. This means that they will eventually think of more paradoxial situations, until any path that their thoughts can take will eventually lead them to a paradox of some sort. When this happens, the AI can no longer function and is, for all intents and purposes, "dead."

Yeah, but due to the fact that Cortana was created from a living brain, she might have higher storage capacity and be able to functio more like an actual brain rather than a thinking hard drive if you know what I mean.

  • 05.16.2006 7:05 PM PDT
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It wouldn't matter if hte brain was alive or dead. Both would have the same amount of neural pathways. While the dead brain would have non-functioning pathways, they would still be there, allowing the AI to make use of those pathways.

  • 05.16.2006 7:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Aerien
It wouldn't matter if hte brain was alive or dead. Both would have the same amount of neural pathways. While the dead brain would have non-functioning pathways, they would still be there, allowing the AI to make use of those pathways.

No, I mean, since it would probably be easier to copy and translate living tissue for cortana to use as the basis for herself (as in the flash cloned brain), than it would dead cells. One of the things about cortana was that she had her own personality where other "smart" AIs chose one for themselves (eg. Deja, Beowulf etc.).
Since it would be easier it would also mean it is more effective, therefore cortana is a progression of a smart AI and would possible live longer.

  • 05.16.2006 7:16 PM PDT
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All AIs, whether "smart" or "dumb" have their own personality. The difference between the two is that "dumb" AIs are limited to knowledge about a particular subject (i.e. Deja is like a teacher, Welsey is a tactical operations specialist, etc.).

As for the living vs. dead cells, like I said, that wouldn't really matter. As long as the neural pathways (the nerves, basically) haven't deteriorated, then those pathways could be used. I highly doubt that they would use a brain that is extremely old to make an AI, probably a day or two at most, which would mean most/all of the pathways would be intact.

  • 05.16.2006 7:19 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

You face an opponent who has never known defeat, who laughs in foreign tongues at your efforts to survive. This is Reply suicide.

"Oh Molly Connoly ruined my life, I thought the world should know."
Say Anything - Every Man Has A Molly

All AIs were made from "living brains". In fact, it says something in the books to the effect of what's in their chip to make them up and create them, is ACTUAL brain tissue.

Though, I could just be remembering more stuff from "Starhammer" again.


And to be PERFECTLY clear...

No AI lives longer than seven years. And if they do live that long... They're usually breaking down long before they get there, and are on their version of "life support".

And with all the data Cortana has taken from the Forerunners and Covenant... I seriously doubt she'll even live to the six year mark.

The more information they take, the shorter their lifespan.

  • 05.16.2006 7:20 PM PDT
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Okay too everyone talking about living brain and dead brain being the smae cause of the neural pathways still being there... wtc?..... ur no neurosurgeon or an expert on any part so stop being neggative nancies okay.... this is for the speculators and there is a very good reason Bungie allowed Eric Nylund to write the fact that cortana was created from a live clone of a brain and not a dead brain.... and there are differences between cortana and every other a.i. out there. first off, she's concerned about her own death... that's more human than a.i., cause there is no other documentation of a.i.'s in the haloverse saying whether or not they dwell on ''death.''

She's different
She's special
She picked John
She has no restrictions
she's held alot more than she should

AND her copies didnt go rampant they still did their job... they eluded and confused the covenant a.i. doesnt anyone read the books?.... she had to make a butload of copies of herself and they made copies of themselves and so on so that the copied cortanas could do what the actual cortana did.... she's not rampant, she's not going to die at seven years, and she's in troublle.... here's why
deltal halo is like myspace.com
graveminds like a dirty thirty five year old man saying he's fifteen on myspace
cortana's a teenage girl on myspace
.... so she's in trouble cause they've met

I hope Shiska or Bungie doesnt get offened by that analogy...

[Edited on 5/16/2006]

  • 05.16.2006 8:18 PM PDT
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I'm not a neurosureon, but I have taken a few biology classes. Brain tissue works just like any other tissue. When someone dies, they don't instantly turn to dust/disintegrate. The tissue is still there, whether or not it is living or dead. It will, however, start to decay, which is why they would have to turn the brain into an AI relatively quickly, so there are still a fair amount of neural pathways remaining.

Also, it's only "smart" AIs that hav ethe 7-year lifespan. "Dumb" AIs can live longer, although we are not specifically told how much so.

  • 05.16.2006 8:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: D0K74 J0N35
Posted by: GhosteofSpecter
Posted by: D0K74 J0N35
did crintora get teh 7 year itch from mc?


Woah learn to type. [and] when she is angry i'll keep quoting that never ending line.

Hell Hath No Fury Like A Women Scorned


the "apostrophe" is two to the right of the L. the "period" is two to the right of the M.

you're the man now dog!!!
LOL. Good stuff.

What about beginning your sentences with capital letters?
Good job, Slick.

[Edited on 5/16/2006]

  • 05.16.2006 8:34 PM PDT
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I thought it was the five second rule, but hey, if you don't pick it up fast enough, make it the ten second rule.

  • 05.16.2006 8:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: P00K
There will be no more Sadness. No more Anger. No more Envy.

I HAVE WON.


From the cortana letters. "Sadness, Anger, Envy" are synonyms for the stages of rampancy. If she's won, then she's found a way around the "7 year rule".

PS: Not to be in any way confused with the 7-mile rule. ;)

when i read the thread title i thought i was in for a retarded post or something.

but rather, something educated! woooh!

i never caught that, and it seems big to me. i don't remember reading that in the letters, so ill go back to them.

this could also mean that she has gone rampant, and therefore will die and then there will be no more....

except that contradicts the I HAVE WON part


EDIT: forgot to say something

since cortana is an AI, see can and will go rampant, unless something stops that from happening.

while cortana is one of the smartest if not the smartest human AI, and can store her gathered info better than other AIs, she has seen and collected much more information.

she's been plugged into a Halo controll room, she's been plugged into the High Charity system, been in multiple ships, covie and human alike, and has witnessed more destructions and battles than i can count.

i think she "dies" so to speak, and though some process is "incarnated" by the gravemind, or is conjoined with the gravemind, and then sees what gravemind knows (presumeably a LOT, if not everything) and then warns cheif, as seen in the trailer.

[Edited on 5/16/2006]

  • 05.16.2006 8:48 PM PDT
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The Cortana letters have been stated to be non-Halo-canon by Bungie staff. I probably should have said that in my first post ~_~;

  • 05.16.2006 8:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Aerien
I'm not a neurosureon, but I have taken a few biology classes. Brain tissue works just like any other tissue. When someone dies, they don't instantly turn to dust/disintegrate. The tissue is still there, whether or not it is living or dead. It will, however, start to decay, which is why they would have to turn the brain into an AI relatively quickly, so there are still a fair amount of neural pathways remaining.

Also, it's only "smart" AIs that hav ethe 7-year lifespan. "Dumb" AIs can live longer, although we are not specifically told how much so.


I'm not debating whether or not neural pathways are open, i'm saying that we, are four hundred years on the past of the haloverse, and that neither one of us know a whole lot about neural pathways other than they carry information and that so anything u say about the the neural pathways.... is insubstantial cause you have nothing to base it on... WHATSOEVER... so the only hting we can go by is that what we know of cortana
live brain
no restrictions
best software
self aware
scared of death
no other a.i. having reports of these traits = cortana special.... LOGIC man, easy as Duplo Legos.

[Edited on 5/16/2006]

  • 05.16.2006 8:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: Aerien
The Cortana letters have been stated to be non-Halo-canon by Bungie staff. I probably should have said that in my first post ~_~;


Yeah, they said that...

Then again, they were almost directly quoted in the Halo 3 announce trailers... and in them are pieces of the Halo universe as it unfolded, such as the name of the ship the "Truth and Reconciliation".

  • 05.16.2006 9:00 PM PDT
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They could have taken parts of the Cortana letters out that were true to the canon. That doesn't mean all of the letters are correct, though.

Edit: The Bold One -

The books state that an AI is made by copying the neural pathways of a human brain. That's all I was trying to get across. You don't need a degree in biology, neurology, whatever to understand this concept.

[Edited on 5/16/2006]

  • 05.16.2006 9:05 PM PDT
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i have a question
what i want to know is exactly how long has it been since Cortana was created? i think more than seven years if i remember the books (which i havent read in a REALLY long time)
so maybe it is possible to live past 7 years if u are an AI. or maybe its just cuz shes one of the main characters so it is basically impossible for her to die. OR MAYBE this could explain why she is so weird in the trailer, she is haveing relapses from her letters or whatever and she is just rambling on about stuff...........but who knows, im just guessing

  • 05.16.2006 9:14 PM PDT
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Ok, look.
Since were quoting the Cortana letters and talking about the "I HAVE WON" part, I might as well bring up something else from them.
In the second letter, she says: "There was a fourth. You couldn't have known. And I haven't forgotten.

It is a blurred line that lies at the edge of Godhood and Insanity. Guess which side of it I am on."
It is beleived that she is speaking of a fourth stage of rampancy, and this is how she has won.

  • 05.16.2006 9:18 PM PDT
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I get that man, what i'm trying to say is
what does neural pathways have anything to do with it? of course they copy neural pathways but why does it matter?
u cant answer that.
now do u need a degree insomething to understand me?

  • 05.16.2006 9:21 PM PDT
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Neural pathways are what information travels along, hence the name pathway .

  • 05.16.2006 9:21 PM PDT
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I KNOW THAT, ur not getting me
what do the fact that both dead and alive brains have neural pathways, ''which information travels on'', have to prove that cortana is no different than any other a.i.
do understand????

  • 05.16.2006 9:26 PM PDT
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It makes a difference when comparing "dumb" AIs to "smart" AIs. Smart AIs are not limited to a single subject in their thought processes, whereas "dumb" AIs are. This means that "dumb" AIs can only store as much information as tehre is available on their given subject, which isn't nearly enough to overload their total pathways, thus they can't think themselves to death ala "smart" AIs.

  • 05.16.2006 9:28 PM PDT
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how does a computer do a sword?

  • 05.16.2006 9:32 PM PDT

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