- spawn031
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- Fabled Mythic Member
@spawn031
"So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories." John Williams
Sure I'll shed some light on what I feel about Invasion....
Invasion Spire
Phase 1:
This phase is specifically and horribly unbalanced for the spartans. If you're playing as Elites and DON'T skunk them in phase 1, you're doing it wrong.
Elites have high ground, camo, and 30 second needle rifles. Spartans have uphill battle, pistol and AR. The way to balance this is give the spartans AT LEAST 2 30 second respawn DMR's.
I've played Spire many times against full parties and it's always a double skunk. It's simply overpowere for the Elites and it's incredibly easy to skunk the other team.
Phase 2:
Sure, you mentioned the sniper being a bit overpowered but in all reality it's not. The sniper has a long range and capacity to spawn kill enemy elites but it doesn't really help when actually trying to capture the enemy territory. Since it's on the outer ring and you have to be inside to capture it. Elites spawn with Needle Rifles in this phase to it's also easy to return fire on the sniper to prevent him from giving cover to his teammates. The 2nd phase of Spire is probably the most balanced phases in Spire.
Phase 3:
You're biggest complaint about this is the banshee. Yes, I've had many games where the goal is to steal the banshee and quite honestly, when you're playing against another full team that is the main "go to" weapon for phase 3. If you're playing as Spartans and actually even manage to get to phase 3, chances are you really aren't playing against that tough of opponents anyways, you should have been skunked back in phase 1.
Most of the time back in phase 2, you have a spartan run in the territory with a shotgun and armor lock, eliminate the elites camping inside, maybe throw a few grenades and have the sniper teammate covering you. It's pretty simple, not to mention that spartans also have rockets. They capture phase 2 and go up the lifts for phase 3.
if you're playing against a coordinated team, you won't see that happen. They will cap phase 2 and head over to banshee spawn - this is where the fun action happens. Players know that Elite weapons do nearly nothing to the banshee, so if the spartans get it they're virtually unstoppable. An expert defending Elite team will "give up" on the 2nd phase and play more defense in securing banshee spawn. Not to mention you also have the fuel rod gun and a spawn point next to that. If the spartans get the banshee right off of 3rd phase, either 1 of 3 things happened.
1. Some players on the Elite team quit so it's much easier to secure banshee.
2. 4/5 Elites players rushed up to the top Spire and are currently camping on the core so it's super easy to steal banshee.
3. Elites haven't sent anyone up to Spartan Sniper to check on him and if they're pursuing the banshee spawn.
Does it need a 1 way shield door? IMO, I would say no. With the current settings of phase 1, if you manage to capture that territory, you're not playing against a good elite team. Set up for banshee is key in phase 3. If you replace shotguns with grenade launchers or AR's, in phase 3 you're having people spam at banshee spawn with charged Plasma Shots and grenade launchers. I've seen it happen in very intense team games.
All in all - Invasion Spire is HORRIBLY unbalanced in phase 1, but phase 2 + 3 are pretty equal depending on how skilled your opponents are.
Invasion Boneyard
Phase 1:
I've played this against full teams as well and phase 1+2 are the most balanced - the only deciding factor in these ones is the shotgun in phase 3.
2 DMR's for Spartans and 3 Needle Rifles for Elites. I don't see what the problem is. All of these weapons spawn at 30 second intervals. When I attack as elites, the first thing that happens is grab those needle rifles and return fire on spartans. Remember they only have 2 long range weapons minus the pistols - which are almost useless at that range. If you're rushing straight forward as Elites in Phase 1, you're doing it wrong. EVERYONE should move to the right, using evade. It's very difficult for an effective spartan team to kill everyone especially when using evade. You're also returning fire as you move anyways.
Once players are on bravo stairs, it's where ever you feel like strategizing. That path literally runs all the way under and over to alpha territory. It's easy moving till then. From here it's an uphill battle and if your elite team spam's grenades and moves up 1 little part at a time, it's easy to capture the territory.
Phase 2:
The wraith is a big deal. A good wraith player balances this phase out. You cap the phase 1 territory and send a player back to the wraith. They are the master of Bravo in Phase 2. Other teams usually send a warthog out scouting for the wraith. Elites have power weapons for the warthog and spawn with NR/PP combo. A single wraith player can hold the spartans territory/vehicle cache back at bravo, while setting up for phase 3 start.
When I play we usually always send 3-4 jetpackkers in phase 3, or rush up scaffolding to be on top in phase 2. 2 players are in wraith. Wraith moves the rock covers over phase 2 bravo to prevent spartans from sniping/DMRing from long hall and it's an easy capture as long as the wraith sits there. Most of the time spartans will set up for the alpha spawn and snipe from long hall. If you have 4 players up top, even with those power weapons it's very difficult to control your base even with all this pressure.
Phase 3:
The most unbalanced, and it's not because of the shotgun - it's because of armor lock. That load-out completely destroys the "fun" of phase 3. If you're at this phase already the team is already set up from phase 2. If you keep the player in the wraith over on the vehicle bay, it's impossible to get a tank out. As soon as the tank comes out you can shoot the "top" of the tank off before it even gets a shot off. They're vehicles are useless. It's up to the 4 players on top of the base to get that core out.
In my experience, it would be most useful to remove that 1 load-out for spartans and remove the sword/hologram load-out for elites. There is simply no way to get that core out if you're not setup at the end of phase 2. You have about a 30 second window to get that core out before all those spartans get their shotguns and grenades and armor lock and sit on that core.
Hopefully by the time that happens, you will have already skunked them anyways so you will get the win. BTW, if you've made it this far in my post thanks.
I don't disagree of the changes you've suggested OP, I just wanted to put my input into this thread and see if this maybe changes some of the things you've written about.
:)
All in all, it would be best if Invasion were to get more maps to play with. If current Invasion settings were to be change to TU settings, the NR would have to be removed in phase 1 of Spire down to only 1-2 NR's. it's simply to effective against Spartans. If they were to get a couple DMR's it might balance it out.
Invasion maps are very difficult to make, even for an expert forger. No matter what you do, there is going to be loopholes. I was surprised that Bungie went against the concept of Elites being physically stronger than spartans like they had back in the beta. If anyone remembers playing Invasion back in the multiplayer beta, DMR starts for spartans on Boneyard was a train wreck.