Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Who thinks Bungie could have done better with Reach?
  • Subject: Who thinks Bungie could have done better with Reach?
Subject: Who thinks Bungie could have done better with Reach?

I'm a Blarg Blarg.


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
The Chief's too prototypical to be a good character. "Roar, look at me, I'm all cold and badass and -blam!-" isn't how a good character is made.
Hmm. He came off as modest and good-intentioned, as well as noble and quick-minded to me.

The fans make MC out to be "badass" and I have no idea where you get "cold" from. It seems you dislike the fanbase of MC rather than MC himself.


Now you're putting words in my mouth.

He lacks any real depth, or emotion. The fact that you never see his face is all well and good, but at least try to give him some characterization beyond "quiet, reserved, etc."

Hell, even going into what he likes and dislikes would make him much more enjoyable.

Chief is to busy kicking covie a** to write a facebook page about himself.

  • 01.30.2012 6:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: SPC COMMANDO
Awful how? Cause he doesn't have a robot arm? or a skull on his mask? or sacrifice himself to save humanity? (not for lack of trying, he's done that several times but just refuses to die)

I mean, what do you want from a main character? Fenix from Gears? or Price from CoD? everyone seems to see them as the epitome of what a character should be. Price is cool and all, but he's not what a spartan would ever be like. Marcus on the other hand, he's just a brick with legs, he's got less character than Noble Team did.


He's a bad character because he doesn't have any development at all, barring the blatantly obvious connection with Cortana in Halo 3

^No character development in the games


That seems wrong to me. This is a first person Sci Fi shooter, not a space opera like Star Wars. Characters like the chief can't spend time crying over lost friends, or going through emotional crisis because no one would care, or believe it. He's a super soldier, what else do you want from him? Shedding some tears? Thinking of going rogue? That would ruin what he's supposed to be. He's not some "chosen one" picked by some being in the sky to save the universe, he's just the only guy around to get it done. Switch him out with almost any of the other spartan 2s and the result would have been similar, if not identical.


Fred would have been a better protagonist. Or Kelly. They had real development and emotion behind them. Not John. He's basically an inanimate object, a static, boring character.

  • 01.30.2012 6:22 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: SPC COMMANDO
That seems wrong to me. This is a first person Sci Fi shooter, not a space opera like Star Wars. Characters like the chief can't spend time crying over lost friends, or going through emotional crisis because no one would care, or believe it. He's a super soldier, what else do you want from him? Shedding some tears? Thinking of going rogue? That would ruin what he's supposed to be. He's not some "chosen one" picked by some being in the sky to save the universe, he's just the only guy around to get it done. Switch him out with almost any of the other spartan 2s and the result would have been similar, if not identical.


Like I said, barring the stuff in the novels (which explore his thoughts more) and some brief stuff with Cortana in Halo 3, Master Chief acts like a robot (Ignore that he is a cyborg lol)

In Halo: The Flood, he -blam!-s bricks when he sees the flood, and you're made to feel a certain way; in Combat Evolved, he's just standing there fighting new guys which may as well be more Covenant

  • 01.30.2012 6:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: RC Clone
So if they make a good enough story(even though the Reach story is crap)

Then that excuses how unfun the game is to play?


I wasn't talking about how fun reach is, I said it was the most emotional one.

And to a degree, yes; Mass Effect (1) has awful gameplay, but a great story which completely makes up for it.

To ParagonRetarded

:'(


How can you think Reach's story is comparable to Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect one actually has developed characters that are interesting.

Reach is just six soldiers with different faces and voices all die eventually.

There is absolutely no comparison between Mass Effect 1 and Reach.

  • 01.30.2012 6:22 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.


He's not supposed to be a normal human being, who would have a lot more characterization. He's been raised from the age of 6 to be a soldier. He doesn't party, he doesn't drink, he doesn't play video games, and he doesn't have a girlfriend, cause thats the way he was created. He's also the leader of the spartan's, and team leaders in the military always have to keep some distance, and be more reserved.

  • 01.30.2012 6:22 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?

  • 01.30.2012 6:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: QuantumSpartan

Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
The Chief's too prototypical to be a good character. "Roar, look at me, I'm all cold and badass and -blam!-" isn't how a good character is made.
Hmm. He came off as modest and good-intentioned, as well as noble and quick-minded to me.

The fans make MC out to be "badass" and I have no idea where you get "cold" from. It seems you dislike the fanbase of MC rather than MC himself.


Now you're putting words in my mouth.

He lacks any real depth, or emotion. The fact that you never see his face is all well and good, but at least try to give him some characterization beyond "quiet, reserved, etc."

Hell, even going into what he likes and dislikes would make him much more enjoyable.

Chief is to busy kicking covie a** to write a facebook page about himself.


"ololol l00k @ meh, im hardcoar" =/= an interesting character.

  • 01.30.2012 6:23 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: RC Clone

How can you think Reach's story is comparable to Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect one actually has developed characters that are interesting.


I used the example to highlight my response with real data.

Reach is just six soldiers with different faces and voices all die eventually.

There is absolutely no comparison between Mass Effect 1 and Reach.


And I agree; Reach is a far-cry from Mass Effect, but Lone Wolf, Exodus and the Pillar of Autumn were amazingly emotional levels. That's all I'm saying here :)

  • 01.30.2012 6:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?


A standard "friend dies" scene, which happens in just about every story involving death. It doesn't show anything that defines him or is unique about him.

The NPC marines are more relatable.

  • 01.30.2012 6:24 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: SPC COMMANDO
That seems wrong to me. This is a first person Sci Fi shooter, not a space opera like Star Wars. Characters like the chief can't spend time crying over lost friends, or going through emotional crisis because no one would care, or believe it. He's a super soldier, what else do you want from him? Shedding some tears? Thinking of going rogue? That would ruin what he's supposed to be. He's not some "chosen one" picked by some being in the sky to save the universe, he's just the only guy around to get it done. Switch him out with almost any of the other spartan 2s and the result would have been similar, if not identical.


Like I said, barring the stuff in the novels (which explore his thoughts more) and some brief stuff with Cortana in Halo 3, Master Chief acts like a robot (Ignore that he is a cyborg lol)

In Halo: The Flood, he -blam!-s bricks when he sees the flood, and you're made to feel a certain way; in Combat Evolved, he's just standing there fighting new guys which may as well be more Covenant


Tell me something, did you -blam!- bricks when you first encountered the flood? I certainly did. (I was 11) In all honesty your reactions to most of the stuff in the games would be roughly similar to his own, barring the military background that would give him more confidence in battle. The point of his character is that he is you, or me, or whoever. Its like Mass effect, but you don't get to give the character your face.

  • 01.30.2012 6:25 PM PDT

I'm a Blarg Blarg.


Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.


He's not supposed to be a normal human being, who would have a lot more characterization. He's been raised from the age of 6 to be a soldier. He doesn't party, he doesn't drink, he doesn't play video games, and he doesn't have a girlfriend, cause thats the way he was created. He's also the leader of the spartan's, and team leaders in the military always have to keep some distance, and be more reserved.

Exactly

  • 01.30.2012 6:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?

Total robot. He didn't even cry or say how sad he was1!1

  • 01.30.2012 6:26 PM PDT

I definitely enjoy reach more than I did a year ago. I think it is because of the updates that 343 has made. I just try to stick to mlg mostly

  • 01.30.2012 6:26 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?


A standard "friend dies" scene, which happens in just about every story involving death. It doesn't show anything that defines him or is unique about him.

The NPC marines are more relatable.


Why, cause the Chief didn't take off his helmet and bawl like a baby when Johnson died? He's a soldier going on 26 years of active service without leave. He's seen more than his fair share of people die, including his best friend. I think by the time Halo 3 ended he was more than used to controlling his emotions then any marine.

  • 01.30.2012 6:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: SPC COMMANDO
That seems wrong to me. This is a first person Sci Fi shooter, not a space opera like Star Wars. Characters like the chief can't spend time crying over lost friends, or going through emotional crisis because no one would care, or believe it. He's a super soldier, what else do you want from him? Shedding some tears? Thinking of going rogue? That would ruin what he's supposed to be. He's not some "chosen one" picked by some being in the sky to save the universe, he's just the only guy around to get it done. Switch him out with almost any of the other spartan 2s and the result would have been similar, if not identical.


Like I said, barring the stuff in the novels (which explore his thoughts more) and some brief stuff with Cortana in Halo 3, Master Chief acts like a robot (Ignore that he is a cyborg lol)

In Halo: The Flood, he -blam!-s bricks when he sees the flood, and you're made to feel a certain way; in Combat Evolved, he's just standing there fighting new guys which may as well be more Covenant


Tell me something, did you -blam!- bricks when you first encountered the flood? I certainly did.


I certainly did not. I shoot them, they fall down. Just like the Covenant, the only difference being there's more of them and, as compensation, they're suckier at aiming.

  • 01.30.2012 6:27 PM PDT
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My Level. Get on it.


Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.

It's like I don't even need to be here. Zome will just say what I was going to for me.

  • 01.30.2012 6:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Retards that started with Reach ITT

  • 01.30.2012 6:28 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: SPC COMMANDO
That seems wrong to me. This is a first person Sci Fi shooter, not a space opera like Star Wars. Characters like the chief can't spend time crying over lost friends, or going through emotional crisis because no one would care, or believe it. He's a super soldier, what else do you want from him? Shedding some tears? Thinking of going rogue? That would ruin what he's supposed to be. He's not some "chosen one" picked by some being in the sky to save the universe, he's just the only guy around to get it done. Switch him out with almost any of the other spartan 2s and the result would have been similar, if not identical.


Like I said, barring the stuff in the novels (which explore his thoughts more) and some brief stuff with Cortana in Halo 3, Master Chief acts like a robot (Ignore that he is a cyborg lol)

In Halo: The Flood, he -blam!-s bricks when he sees the flood, and you're made to feel a certain way; in Combat Evolved, he's just standing there fighting new guys which may as well be more Covenant


Tell me something, did you -blam!- bricks when you first encountered the flood? I certainly did.


I certainly did not. I shoot them, they fall down. Just like the Covenant, the only difference being there's more of them and, as compensation, they're suckier at aiming.


I call BS. I don't think anyone would have not freaked out when something they killed already gets back up and attacks them again.

or was Halo CE not your first Halo game?

  • 01.30.2012 6:28 PM PDT

I'm a Blarg Blarg.


Posted by: RC Clone

Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?

Total robot. He didn't even cry or say how sad he was1!1

If he did 343 or the Flood would have killed him.

  • 01.30.2012 6:28 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: SPC COMMANDO
Tell me something, did you -blam!- bricks when you first encountered the flood?


Yep :D

I certainly did. (I was 11) In all honesty your reactions to most of the stuff in the games would be roughly similar to his own, barring the military background that would give him more confidence in battle. The point of his character is that he is you, or me, or whoever. Its like Mass effect, but you don't get to give the character your face.

You can't react or empathize with yourself, unless you're a complete wackjob like Zome

:3

But really, his utter lack of response to everything, coupled with the complete detachment from what happens to other characters (Barring Cortana and Johnson)makes him dumb.

The most he does is change the tone of his voice a few times, and bow his head over a black guy's dick for a few seconds.

  • 01.30.2012 6:29 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: RC Clone
Retards that started with Reach ITT


lol

The irony here is that I'm likely older than you

  • 01.30.2012 6:29 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?


A standard "friend dies" scene, which happens in just about every story involving death. It doesn't show anything that defines him or is unique about him.

The NPC marines are more relatable.
See, just about anyone willing to reason would have conceded their point at least for that cutscene. You're just practicing the argumentative theory of reasoning now.

What do you want "Oh, HAYY MC! What's your favorite FOOD, dude?" or something?

  • 01.30.2012 6:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: RC Clone
Retards that started with Reach ITT


lol

The irony here is that I'm likely older than you

And how old are you?

  • 01.30.2012 6:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: RC Clone

Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?

Total robot. He didn't even cry or say how sad he was1!1


His response was too generic to be really emotional. Johnson's death was sad because it was the removal of a great character. John basically just stood there and stared at his corpse before running off. What was that about "emotional"?

  • 01.30.2012 6:30 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: RC Clone
And how old are you?


One-hundred-seventeen

  • 01.30.2012 6:32 PM PDT