Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Who thinks Bungie could have done better with Reach?
  • Subject: Who thinks Bungie could have done better with Reach?
Subject: Who thinks Bungie could have done better with Reach?

He kills aliens and other stuff. I got what I liked from the game.

  • 01.30.2012 6:33 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: RC Clone

Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?

Total robot. He didn't even cry or say how sad he was1!1


His response was too generic to be really emotional. Johnson's death was sad because it was the removal of a great character. John basically just stood there and stared at his corpse before running off. What was that about "emotional"?
The camera stayed clear off the path of John's upper body, to make the watcher infer that John is extremely sad. He moves his hand in a slow shock-sadness manner while allowing Cortana to re-enter the chip. He does what needs to be done, and refrains from doing what he's been trained not to. I mean, honestly, what more can you ask for?

  • 01.30.2012 6:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
Master Chief speaks through actions and body language. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that, and what's to dislike about it.


The problem is, that's not good enough. It shows the bare minimum of characterization. He's like a robot. We know about as much about him at the end of Halo 3 as we did at the start of Halo 1.
Huh?


A standard "friend dies" scene, which happens in just about every story involving death. It doesn't show anything that defines him or is unique about him.

The NPC marines are more relatable.
See, just about anyone willing to reason would have conceded their point at least for that cutscene. You're just practicing the argumentative theory of reasoning now.

What do you want "Oh, HAYY MC! What's your favorite FOOD, dude?" or something?


Ah, so now you're exaggerating my point. Hm.

If he spoke a bit more, maybe a witty one-liner here or there, maybe if he had his own side-story where he didn't just follow orders that went deeper into who he is, he'd be likable.

  • 01.30.2012 6:34 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: Zomechin
honestly, what more can you ask for?


More of that kind of scene

  • 01.30.2012 6:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zomechin
The camera stayed clear off the path of John's upper body, to make the watcher infer that John is extremely sad. He moves his hand in a slow shock-sadness manner while allowing Cortana to re-enter the chip. He does what needs to be done, and refrains from doing what he's been trained not to. I mean, honestly, what more can you ask for?


That's too much to "infer". Even saying "I'll miss you" would have hit the point home. That would have been a huge step forward from "stare at body, listen to last words, turn and run away".

  • 01.30.2012 6:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

I love that part where you didn't have the balls to post your age. Paragon.

I see you aren't ready to actually go through with anything you say.

  • 01.30.2012 6:36 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: RC Clone
I love that part where you didn't have the balls to post your age. Paragon.

I see you aren't ready to actually go through with anything you say.


I love the part where I mention it doesn't matter

  • 01.30.2012 6:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: SPC COMMANDO
That seems wrong to me. This is a first person Sci Fi shooter, not a space opera like Star Wars. Characters like the chief can't spend time crying over lost friends, or going through emotional crisis because no one would care, or believe it. He's a super soldier, what else do you want from him? Shedding some tears? Thinking of going rogue? That would ruin what he's supposed to be. He's not some "chosen one" picked by some being in the sky to save the universe, he's just the only guy around to get it done. Switch him out with almost any of the other spartan 2s and the result would have been similar, if not identical.


Like I said, barring the stuff in the novels (which explore his thoughts more) and some brief stuff with Cortana in Halo 3, Master Chief acts like a robot (Ignore that he is a cyborg lol)

In Halo: The Flood, he -blam!-s bricks when he sees the flood, and you're made to feel a certain way; in Combat Evolved, he's just standing there fighting new guys which may as well be more Covenant


Tell me something, did you -blam!- bricks when you first encountered the flood? I certainly did.


I certainly did not. I shoot them, they fall down. Just like the Covenant, the only difference being there's more of them and, as compensation, they're suckier at aiming.


I call BS. I don't think anyone would have not freaked out when something they killed already gets back up and attacks them again.

or was Halo CE not your first Halo game?


It was. They got up, so I shot them back down. That wasn't scary, that was just irritating.

  • 01.30.2012 6:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: RC Clone
I love that part where you didn't have the balls to post your age. Paragon.

I see you aren't ready to actually go through with anything you say.


I love the part where I mention it doesn't matter

So Reach is crap

/thread

  • 01.30.2012 6:38 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: RC Clone
I love that part where you didn't have the balls to post your age. Paragon.

I see you aren't ready to actually go through with anything you say.


I love the part where I mention it doesn't matter


Im going to love the part where you two stop trying to have a dick measuring contest and get back on topic.

[Edited on 01.30.2012 6:39 PM PST]

  • 01.30.2012 6:38 PM PDT


Posted by: And Im Here Too
If he spoke a bit more, maybe a witty one-liner here or there, maybe if he had his own side-story where he didn't just follow orders that went deeper into who he is, he'd be likable.

"Yes, no thanks to your driving."
*Hefts Grenade*
"I need a weapon."
"So, stay here."
"Sir, to finish this fight."
"Wake me when you need me."

Johnson and Cortana were the real voices, I'll admit, but that just attributes to the experience. I'd rather hear either of them rather than John running his mouth off during combat.

  • 01.30.2012 6:40 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: ThreeSixXero
John running his mouth off during combat.


Or ever

That's the problem

  • 01.30.2012 6:40 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
John running his mouth off during combat.


Or ever

That's the problem


what, you want him to act like these guys? Thats what the marines were for.

  • 01.30.2012 6:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: RC Clone
I love that part where you didn't have the balls to post your age. Paragon.

I see you aren't ready to actually go through with anything you say.


I love the part where I mention it doesn't matter


Im going to love the part where you two stop trying to have a dick measuring contest and get back on topic.

Okay then. But it was an age contest that Paragon started. Its not my fault he is a scared 12 year old.

OT
Reach is an embarrassment to the Halo series and should have never been released.

[Edited on 01.30.2012 6:46 PM PST]

  • 01.30.2012 6:42 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: And Im Here Too
If he spoke a bit more, maybe a witty one-liner here or there,
So now you want to change his character? You just admitted that he was a self-contained, quiet guy. That's who he is. That's his character.

You can dislike him all you want, for all I care, but your reason for not liking his character cannot be that he isn't developed - he's developed perfectly for who he is. If you don't like who he is, fine, but don't confuse who he is for a lack of being.Posted by: And Im Here Too
Posted by: Zomechin
The camera stayed clear off the path of John's upper body, to make the watcher infer that John is extremely sad. He moves his hand in a slow shock-sadness manner while allowing Cortana to re-enter the chip. He does what needs to be done, and refrains from doing what he's been trained not to. I mean, honestly, what more can you ask for?


That's too much to "infer". Even saying "I'll miss you" would have hit the point home. That would have been a huge step forward from "stare at body, listen to last words, turn and run away".
Again, you want to change who he is. I'm a very quiet person when I'm sad. Does that mean I do not have a personality? People handle situations differently, and just because MC doesn't do the generic crying or one-liners when he's sad doesn't mean he isn't a 'person'. I don't see how that's too much to infer either. A usually quick-motioned, quick-to-act character moving unusually slowly when someone close to him dies is pretty clear-cut.

  • 01.30.2012 6:43 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
John running his mouth off during combat.


Or ever

That's the problem


what, you want him to act like these guys? Thats what the marines were for.


I want him to act like a Human being, and not some generic space marine "Strong, silent type" sterotype, I've had enough of that -blam!-

  • 01.30.2012 6:45 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
John running his mouth off during combat.


Or ever

That's the problem


what, you want him to act like these guys? Thats what the marines were for.


I want him to act like a Human being, and not some generic space marine "Strong, silent type" sterotype, I've had enough of that -blam!-



From what? Most of halo's competitors have the strong, loudmouthed type as their main characters.

  • 01.30.2012 6:47 PM PDT


Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
John running his mouth off during combat.


Or ever

That's the problem


what, you want him to act like these guys? Thats what the marines were for.

I actually would like a Halo with characters like the Commandos. SW RC was really fun and their personalities contributed to that.

  • 01.30.2012 6:48 PM PDT

Hi.

Posted by: ParagonRenegade
I want him to act like a Human being
See, you want him to act like something that he's fully not.

He a modified super-soldier who's endured much more than any regular "human being" could have. He's been morphed psychologically into who he is. Why can't you appreciate that?

  • 01.30.2012 6:48 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: ThreeSixXero

Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
John running his mouth off during combat.


Or ever

That's the problem


what, you want him to act like these guys? Thats what the marines were for.

I actually would like a Halo with characters like the Commandos. SW RC was really fun and their personalities contributed to that.


Then ask 343 for another ODST game. I want one of those anyway.

[Edited on 01.30.2012 6:49 PM PST]

  • 01.30.2012 6:48 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
I want him to act like a Human being
See, you want him to act like something that he's fully not.

He a modified super-soldier who's endured much more than any regular "human being" could have. He's been morphed psychologically into who he is. Why can't you appreciate that?


I can, but even crazy people in insane asylums have Humanity in them; John has nothing.

When Johnson died, if he had uttered almost inaudibly "Goodbye" he would be a good character.

I'm not asking to break his character, nor for the moon, I just want him to react the way an actual Human would.

  • 01.30.2012 6:50 PM PDT


Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ThreeSixXero

Posted by: SPC COMMANDO

Posted by: ParagonRenegade

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
John running his mouth off during combat.


Or ever

That's the problem


what, you want him to act like these guys? Thats what the marines were for.

I actually would like a Halo with characters like the Commandos. SW RC was really fun and their personalities contributed to that.


Then ask 343 for another ODST game. I want one of those anyway.

If they don't make another, they'd be wasting an awful lot of potential.

Then again, Lucas Arts is also wasting a lot of potential in not making RC 2.

  • 01.30.2012 6:50 PM PDT
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Hey, uh, if you like vs threads, then check out this little group right here, if you have the time. It's pretty fun, just hop right in.

Posted by: Zomechin
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
I want him to act like a Human being
See, you want him to act like something that he's fully not.

He a modified super-soldier who's endured much more than any regular "human being" could have. He's been morphed psychologically into who he is. Why can't you appreciate that?


That's like saying taking steroids makes people "not human". He went through training, had a Wolverine-esque process done to him, had drugs pumped into him, slapped some armor on and was sent out to fight. He's still a human being, with human emotions.

  • 01.30.2012 6:52 PM PDT

Posted by: CultMiester4000
I'm not really an Apple person (Bananas forever) but damn, that's kinda sad.


Posted by: ThreeSixXero
Then again, Lucas Arts is also wasting a lot of potential in not making RC2, KOTOR III and BFIII.

  • 01.30.2012 6:52 PM PDT

"Don't go following causes. They'll just break your heart. When idealism meets reality, it's rarely reality that backs down."

Michael Liberty, UNN

Starcraft Universe


Posted by: ThreeSixXero

If they don't make another, they'd be wasting an awful lot of potential.

Then again, Lucas Arts is also wasting a lot of potential in not making RC 2.


Lucas arts is beyond FUBAR at this point. They've destroyed damn near everything they've spent the last 40 years building, all for cash. the RC books were awesome, but then the Clone Wars series came out and contradicted everything the books had established, and the author stopped writing them. Force unleashed has totally screwed up the canon as well. and now they're making it 3d, as if anyone cares.

  • 01.30.2012 6:53 PM PDT