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Subject: [RESOLVED] > Canon Irregularity: 'High Charity'

Oly Oly Oxen Free

[Edit]

Well, i watched Halo 3's cutscenes again and in cortana's message to Chief she mentions HC is on it's way to earth. Since we've already covered HC having it's own generators, i guess that clears up everything.

High Charity jumps to earth, jumps into/flies into the portal, and smashes down onto the ark. Job done.

Thanks contributors, that question has been nagging me for a while...

[Original Post]

So, in halo 2, the keyship blasts off to earth with Monsieur John 117 onboard.

In Halo 3, it arrives at earth, has a bit of fun, then activates the portal to the ark and promptly moves on. My question is, how does the covenant holy city of High Charity manage to jump through slipspace to the Ark?

The ship tore off a chunk of the San'Shyuum home world, so without it HC is simply a well decorated bit of rock. And even if it went to earth and found the still-open portal, it would have appeared in space like the rest of the fleet. Which means it would have had to have jumped into the atmosphere.


If there is a simple canonical explanation i'm overlooking, feel free to mention it with biting wit and painful sarcasm.

[Edited on 02.02.2012 11:50 AM PST]

  • 01.31.2012 2:39 PM PDT
Subject: [WARNING] > Canon Irregularity Detected < 'High Charity'

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I doubt the Forerunner ship did any damage to the engines that power High Charity.

  • 01.31.2012 2:41 PM PDT

"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."

High Charity still has FTL drives, they were only powered by the Forerunner Keyship. Probably, it still had power for it to launch into Slipspace.

  • 01.31.2012 2:44 PM PDT
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The dreadnaught was responsible for supplying High Charity with a fair amount of power, but not all of it.

And it is likely High Charity jumped on it's own with the last of it's power, as Gravemind was on board along with Cortana, with it being likely that one of them knew where the Ark was.

  • 01.31.2012 2:47 PM PDT

Oly Oly Oxen Free


Posted by: greatestSheriff
High Charity still has FTL drives, they were only powered by the Forerunner Keyship. Probably, it still had power for it to launch into Slipspace.



I remember one of the books (maybe Contact: Harvest?) mentioning that it only took a fraction of the Keyship's power to power the whole of High Charity. So maybe there were power reserves or something akin to that.

And i never considered it would have FTL drives, i thought covie tech would be insufficient, but just remembered the way in which the asteroid Eden was moved in Cole Protocol... makes sense that the covenant would be able to do the same with high charity...

Well, thanks for feeding my brain guys.

  • 01.31.2012 2:49 PM PDT

Oly Oly Oxen Free


Posted by: Sandtrap
The dreadnaught was responsible for supplying High Charity with a fair amount of power, but not all of it.

And it is likely High Charity jumped on it's own with the last of it's power, as Gravemind was on board along with Cortana, with it being likely that one of them knew where the Ark was.


Surely Cortana wouldn't have given up her last secret to Gravemind without any guarantee John was coming?

Also, the Ark was outside of the galaxy, i doubt that a mass as large as High Charity could have gotten there in time, and on reserve power.

Which must mean that the Gravemind took the Ark portal on Earth, passing up the opportunity for a free meal on the way.

  • 01.31.2012 2:52 PM PDT

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Posted by: The Dutchman
So, in halo 2, the keyship blasts off to earth with Monsieur John 117 onboard.

In Halo 3, it arrives at earth, has a bit of fun, then activates the portal to the ark and promptly moves on. My question is, how does the covenant holy city of High Charity manage to jump through slipspace to the Ark?

The ship tore off a chunk of the San'Shyuum home world, so without it HC is simply a well decorated bit of rock. And even if it went to earth and found the still-open portal, it would have appeared in space like the rest of the fleet. Which means it would have had to have jumped into the atmosphere.


If there is a simple canonical explanation i'm overlooking, feel free to mention it with biting wit and painful sarcasm.


I too questioned this once, but as it turns out the keyship is not the only power source that is available to high charity (on the halo 3 level "Cortana" you spend some time blowing up generators on the flood infested High Charity).

High charity itself can run by it's own, make slipspace jumps, power most of the station. So it has the capabilities to go where it wants to.

As to what happened to High charity is that it didn't destroy it as it detaches, it would be stupid to build a station that if removing one part destroys the entire thing.

The covenant have a limited knowledge of slipspace travel, far superior to humans but that's because they got access to forerunner ships. And seeing how cortana was able to better understand how to use covenant slipspace than the covenant does while infiltrating the Super Carrier (or was it just a flagship?, First Strike), then I doubt gravemind would have a problem with teleporting high charity too earth.

Don't forget he sent a covenant vessel through slipspace in atmosphere in halo 3 (floodgate).

  • 01.31.2012 2:53 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

I made this same exact thread when I was a newcomer here on these forums. I'll try and look for it, and link it here.

EDIT: Found the thread. It's from 2009, so it's pretty old

[Edited on 01.31.2012 3:05 PM PST]

  • 01.31.2012 3:02 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

How would he fit Charity through the portal at earth? The portal was maybe a kilometer or two in diameter and high charity is hundreds wide. Did the portal expand to let high charity through?

  • 01.31.2012 3:03 PM PDT

Oly Oly Oxen Free


Posted by: Xd00999
How would he fit Charity through the portal at earth? The portal was maybe a kilometer or two in diameter and high charity is hundreds wide. Did the portal expand to let high charity through?


Maybe he forced the tip in and then stretc-

On second thoughts, no idea.

It does raise an interesting question, though, do we have any confirmation on how HC got to the Ark?

  • 01.31.2012 3:07 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: The Dutchman
Posted by: Xd00999
How would he fit Charity through the portal at earth? The portal was maybe a kilometer or two in diameter and high charity is hundreds wide. Did the portal expand to let high charity through?


Maybe he forced the tip in and then stretc-

On second thoughts, no idea.

It does raise an interesting question, though, do we have any confirmation on how HC got to the Ark?


There is no logical explanation for this.

The amount of power needed to transport something the size of High Charity to the Ark is much more than what any Covenant made engines/generators can make, and especially when we take into account on how fast it made it to the Ark. It took a matter of almost a day or a little bit more to reach it.

It could have exited slipspace directly on the Portal, thus passing it directly though to the Ark, but the Portal was no where near as big as High Charity... Unless it can expand in size for the size of the ship passing, which would make sense since most Forerunner vessels were much larger what the Portals dimensions were. But even then, the trip through slipspace should have taken a certain amount of time, and with Covenant made engines, it should have taken longer.

No matter how you put it, High Charity has an obvious power related problem with canon.

  • 01.31.2012 3:12 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: The Dutchman
Posted by: Xd00999
How would he fit Charity through the portal at earth? The portal was maybe a kilometer or two in diameter and high charity is hundreds wide. Did the portal expand to let high charity through?


Maybe he forced the tip in and then stretc-

On second thoughts, no idea.

It does raise an interesting question, though, do we have any confirmation on how HC got to the Ark?


There is no logical explanation for this.

The amount of power needed to transport something the size of High Charity to the Ark is much more than what any Covenant made engines/generators can make, and especially when we take into account on how fast it made it to the Ark. It took a matter of almost a day or a little bit more to reach it.

It could have exited slipspace directly on the Portal, thus passing it directly though to the Ark, but the Portal was no where near as big as High Charity... Unless it can expand in size for the size of the ship passing, which would make sense since most Forerunner vessels were much larger what the Portals dimensions were. But even then, the trip through slipspace should have taken a certain amount of time, and with Covenant made engines, it should have taken longer.

No matter how you put it, High Charity has an obvious power related problem with canon.

Another thing: if the portal were to expand to be large enough it would have stretched hundreds of kilometers across, possibly damaging all sorts of terrain, not to mention Voi and the surrounding mountains.

  • 01.31.2012 3:16 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Xd00999
Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: The Dutchman
Posted by: Xd00999
How would he fit Charity through the portal at earth? The portal was maybe a kilometer or two in diameter and high charity is hundreds wide. Did the portal expand to let high charity through?


Maybe he forced the tip in and then stretc-

On second thoughts, no idea.

It does raise an interesting question, though, do we have any confirmation on how HC got to the Ark?


There is no logical explanation for this.

The amount of power needed to transport something the size of High Charity to the Ark is much more than what any Covenant made engines/generators can make, and especially when we take into account on how fast it made it to the Ark. It took a matter of almost a day or a little bit more to reach it.

It could have exited slipspace directly on the Portal, thus passing it directly though to the Ark, but the Portal was no where near as big as High Charity... Unless it can expand in size for the size of the ship passing, which would make sense since most Forerunner vessels were much larger what the Portals dimensions were. But even then, the trip through slipspace should have taken a certain amount of time, and with Covenant made engines, it should have taken longer.

No matter how you put it, High Charity has an obvious power related problem with canon.

Another thing: if the portal were to expand to be large enough it would have stretched hundreds of kilometers across, possibly damaging all sorts of terrain, not to mention Voi and the surrounding mountains.


I don't think that would happen. I'm not sure, but from what I can remember, I'm pretty sure the Portal was horizontally above the surface of the planet. Completely parallel, thus in case of expanding, it would never damage the surroundings.

But then again, we have no idea what what type of power the Portal generators are producing, and how big they can make the Portal.

  • 01.31.2012 3:23 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Posted by: HipiO7

If the portal the portal were to expand high mountains and possibly the odd building would get clipped by it. Crow's Nest was at the top of a mountain, it might get hit by the portal, for example. Even if nothing would be hit you can't just have something the size of High Charity drop through a supermassive portal without some consequences in the area.

  • 01.31.2012 3:39 PM PDT

yas334229812

Used all its energy and ships it controlled to slipspace to earth and enter the portal

  • 01.31.2012 3:44 PM PDT
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High Charity does not have "reserve power" it has working generators if the Keyship needs to take off.

You know those cylinders you destroyed in "Cortana"? Those were the main reactors.

  • 01.31.2012 3:52 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Xd00999
Posted by: HipiO7

If the portal the portal were to expand high mountains and possibly the odd building would get clipped by it. Crow's Nest was at the top of a mountain, it might get hit by the portal, for example. Even if nothing would be hit you can't just have something the size of High Charity drop through a supermassive portal without some consequences in the area.


I think it's safe to say that Crow's Nest was not on a very high mountain. I'd estimate it at no more than 1750 meters. I'm pretty sure the Portal was established at a much higher altitude than 2000 meters from ground level.

I doubt High Charity would have dropped in atmosphere to access the Portal, but rather exit directly on the entrance vector, therefore acting as if it had never exited slipspace and the human forces on Earth never noticing, except for some odd readings on some scans.

And if not, it could have exited directly in front of the Portal, with half of HC in the Portal, and the other half exiting slipspace, making for a very fast transition.

  • 01.31.2012 3:55 PM PDT

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They also had the crashed UNSC ship's fusion reactors. They could also have used the power from them to enter slipspace.

just a thought.

  • 01.31.2012 5:50 PM PDT

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Maybe the energy left in places here and there was channeled through into the slipspace drive through special flood circuit forms.

  • 01.31.2012 6:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: Spartan 100
Maybe the energy left in places here and there was channeled through into the slipspace drive through special flood circuit forms.
NO.

High Charity has its own reactors! What do you think you were blowing up in "Cortana"?

  • 01.31.2012 8:01 PM PDT

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The reactors were maybe part of that system.

  • 01.31.2012 8:19 PM PDT

-/
/
|(::)(::)(::)|
|(::)(::)(::)|
|(::)(::)(::)|
|(::)(::)(::)|
[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]

Besides anything else, this is a Gravemind and Cortana we're talking about... How could they not figure out how to use the slipspace drive without the dreadnought? Anyway, with everything on the ship being dead, there's a massive number of systems that wouldn't need to be turned on, so the generators would have been more than sufficient.

  • 01.31.2012 9:30 PM PDT
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"but you already knew that, I mean, how couldn't you?

Only when no Human brick is left atop another, shall we be satisfied with your destruction.

A couple of things to note:

High Charity is much bigger than the portal seen in Halo 3.

High Charity is not, as they say, "rated for atmosphere". We see it doing a very bad impression of a controlled reentry on the Ark, it is highly unlikely it could get down to the surface near Voi to enter the portal (even if the portal was big enough).

No mention of High Charity appearing at Earth, or doing anthing to Earth is ever made, just that it's on it's way there. It doesn't seem to actually arrive.

You don't have to exit the portal at the Portal's physical location in real space. We see this when the Sangheili fleet pops back into realspace over the Ark, the portal isn't visible, but we know it's still there from later on in the game.

With this in mind, it seems plausible that you don't actually have to be directly at the portal's physical location to use it either. Perhaps High Charity was still in slipspace when it reached Earth. And instead of transitioning back to realspace, then entering the physically smaller realspace portal, it simply 'hitched a ride' on the portal from within slipspace, without ever needing to exit for maneuvers.

As to the power requirements, High Charity had considerable auxilliary power, it was capable of sustaining a fleet and keeping them fueled. There may well have been several Flood controlled capital ships still docked. Given the Flood was capable of making massive improvements to the slipspace drive of the UNSC In Amber Clad in mere hours I think it's completely reasonble that they could have got High Charity's drives going again, or used warships to do the same.
The Flood is very intelligent, despite it's monomania and swarm tactics.

  • 02.01.2012 9:57 AM PDT

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