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Subject: Bungie's Jason Jones Being Bit of a Hypocrite
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Posted by: spartain ken 15
If Bungie really wanted more $$$, they would keep making Halo games. I think they wanted to stop after 3 but they had 2 more to make.

Bungie is a company. A company's ultimate goal? Get more money. Sure, Bungie has a great PR team, but that doesn't change their end game.

Apart from the fact they were sick of making Halo games, there is more money to be made developing a AAA cross platformed title than there is catering towards the Xbox only. Eventually, they'll be making more profit than they were with Halo. You gotta spend money to make money... etc etc.

  • 02.03.2012 7:47 AM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

The only thing I can really sympathize with. However, I still believe it could have been possible to enter in to a contract with Microsoft in which they could release different titles. As opposed to sequels.

Of course this would have been difficult regarding certainty for Microsoft, however, considering the faith Microsoft put in to Bungie after peeking at Halo, I wouldn't deem this impossible.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
Bungie was for a while in deep financial trouble. They went from Alex's garage to a massive studio.


Irrelevant to my post, to be honest.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
The Myth 2 Soulblighter bug is one of the reasons we have Halo. Bungie needed a huge game to save the company. They also needed the money from Microsoft who owned Bungie at that point.


How was he not hypocritical, Ken? I know you're a hardcore, dedicated Bungie fan, but surely you can see that Jones, under consideration of this interview, has been hypocritical.

Posted by: spartain ken 15Was Jason Jones being hypocritical? Maybe. But, when Bungie made sequels they spent time on them and made them unique and cool and well expanded into the story of the games.

Irrelevant, again.
Posted by: spartain ken 15
But, Pathways into Darkness would be a BAD game for a sequel. You trapped the GodKing under the temple, nothing more to do really.


This, again, does not focus on my question?

Posted by: spartain ken 15
Marathon however took place from Pathways into the future and while not a sequel, greatly expanded on the universe.


Would you really say that by Bungie entering in such a contract with Microsoft, that they were being 'true to their values'.

However, you make a good point. I am definitely also pleased that Bungie are independent once more, and am much looking forward to what the future will bring us.

Posted by: spartain ken 15
This is all up to views but I think Bungie has always been true to their values and they left the control of Microsoft to be independent again. If Bungie really wanted more $$$, they would keep making Halo games. I think they wanted to stop after 3 but they had 2 more to make.

  • 02.03.2012 7:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: MR DROZ
K. But how much say-so does he actually have in the corporate decision making process?


I would think a lot.
But we don't actually know.

he was the co-founder of Bungie Used-to-bees don't make no honey, as the old saying goes.

I would think there would be a lot of meetings among senior members and team members in deciding content and future games. Right. 1 vote among several others. Committee's are funny like that. If 51% (or 2/3 depending on your bylaws) agree to do something ridiculous than that's what happens.

  • 02.03.2012 7:55 AM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

You can't honestly say that Jones didn't have a huge say-so in the future of Bungie, surely? That would be absurd. He is the co-founder, who once single-handedly programmed Bungie games.

To say he did not have a huge input in Bungie's future would be ridiculous to say the least.

Posted by: MR DROZ

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: MR DROZ
K. But how much say-so does he actually have in the corporate decision making process?


I would think a lot.
But we don't actually know.

he was the co-founder of Bungie Used-to-bees don't make no honey, as the old saying goes.

I would think there would be a lot of meetings among senior members and team members in deciding content and future games. Right. 1 vote among several others. Committee's are funny like that. If 51% (or 2/3 depending on your bylaws) agree to do something ridiculous than that's what happens.

  • 02.03.2012 8:00 AM PDT
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I didn't say one way or the other. I said we don't know. Understand?

  • 02.03.2012 8:06 AM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

Even to be unsure about something such as this is absurd. He is the co-founder of Bungie. How could his say-so be limited? And why would he at all want to limit it? Understand?

Posted by: MR DROZ
I didn't say one way or the other. I said we don't know. Understand?

  • 02.03.2012 8:09 AM PDT

You (some people here) say that Bungie crates games just to make money. Well of course that's a part of it, how else would they be able to continue to make games that they, and hopefully others would want to play?

No one wants to work for nothing uless they really have to. Creating medicine for the humanity is for a greater cause, but if you don't get paid for it in one way or another you can't continue doing that, and you can't improve your products eighter.

/My 2 cents

  • 02.03.2012 8:16 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

What is this, a political campaign? You can't hold people to every single thing that they said twenty years ago. Times change.

Twenty years ago, I thought that I would be a lifelong fan of rap music and thought that 80s rock sucked. Nowadays I can barely stand to listen to any new rap that comes out but enjoy newer rock songs. I listen mostly to old rap or newer rock music. I'm not a "hypocrite" because the world of music changed. Nor is Bungie because the world of game development changed.

Twenty years ago it did not cost tens of millions of dollars to develop and produce a video game. Now it does. When a game developer produces a successful AAA-caliber game, it makes complete sense to produce sequels that have already built up a successful name, large fanbase, and guaranteed dollars.

It is exactly the same with big-budget movies. That's why you see every big studio taking its big-budget, high-dollar risks on already successful movie franchises, already successful directors, and already successful actors.

Implying that Bungie should, on principle, start all over every time it makes a new game simply because Jason Jones said something twenty years ago that has zero applicability to the video game development world or the way Bungie makes games nowadays is short-sighted and petty, IMHO.

[Edited on 02.03.2012 8:20 AM PST]

  • 02.03.2012 8:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: RigZ Boi
Even to be unsure about something such as this is absurd. He is the co-founder of Bungie. How could his say-so be limited? And why would he at all want to limit it? Understand?

Posted by: MR DROZ
I didn't say one way or the other. I said we don't know. Understand?


/facepalm
Bolding the words does not make your point stronger, it just means you're speaking louder. You where heard the first time.

Being unsure is all you can be, unless you actually know how business is handled behind closed doors. Are we to believe the man waves his hand, speaks the words, and so it be done? Young man, you have much to learn about how businesses function. Being a cofounder does not necessarily entitle you to anything aside from a reserved parking space.

  • 02.03.2012 8:23 AM PDT

"That's about all that can be said for plots, which anyway are just one thing after another, a what and a what and a what.

Now try how and why."


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Posted by: x Foman123 x
What is this, a political campaign? You can't hold people to every single thing that they said twenty years ago. Times change.

Twenty years ago, I thought that I would be a lifelong fan of rap music and thought that 80s rock sucked. Nowadays I can barely stand to listen to any new rap that comes out but enjoy newer rock songs. I listen mostly to old rap or newer rock music. I'm not a "hypocrite" because the world of music changed. Nor is Bungie because the world of game development changed.

Twenty years ago it did not cost tens of millions of dollars to develop and produce a video game. Now it does. When a game developer produces a successful AAA-caliber game, it makes complete sense to produce sequels that have already built up a successful name, large fanbase, and guaranteed dollars.

It is exactly the same with big-budget movies. That's why you see every big studio taking its big-budget, high-dollar risks on already successful movie franchises, already successful directors, and already successful actors.

Implying that Bungie should, on principle, start all over every time it makes a new game simply because Jason Jones said something twenty years ago that has zero applicability to the video game development world or the way Bungie makes games nowadays is short-sighted and petty, IMHO.


[Edited on 02.03.2012 8:37 AM PST]

  • 02.03.2012 8:37 AM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

There is a difference between making games until everyone is sick of them, and making games until you've finished telling the story you want to tell.

Bungie is done making Halo. Now it's Microsoft's decision to work Halo until no one wants it anymore.

So, in my mind, Jason is still living by what he said. They stopped making Halo games because they had made all the story that they wanted to, at least for now. 4 games (and one large expansion) hardly constitutes making games until everyone is sick of them.

Besides, look at call of duty. They have what, eight or nine games? And the vast majority of the public is still not sick of that.

[Edited on 02.03.2012 8:42 AM PST]

  • 02.03.2012 8:42 AM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

Yes, times do change. However, I find it odd for a co-founder of Bungie to completely depart himself from a principle of his.

Yes, money is a large factor, however, if Bungie and Jones desired to stick to their roots as much as they're praised for doing, surely they could have navigated their way out of this?

Your analogy involving music is flawed. Principles are something which a person, or group of people asscoiate themselves with for a lifetime. Music is a form of an entertainment, something to be enjoyed and thus people's opinions on music are always changing.

Nowhere did I state Bungie shouls start all over again due to this quote by Jones. I simply stated my opinion, and the fact that I find this quote to be very hypocritical.

Note: I completely understand why Bungie did go for sequels and entered into a contract with Microsoft - to strengthen their fanbase, gain more money and be able to produce multiple AAA games.


Posted by: x Foman123 x
What is this, a political campaign? You can't hold people to every single thing that they said twenty years ago. Times change.

Twenty years ago, I thought that I would be a lifelong fan of rap music and thought that 80s rock sucked. Nowadays I can barely stand to listen to any new rap that comes out but enjoy newer rock songs. I listen mostly to old rap or newer rock music. I'm not a "hypocrite" because the world of music changed. Nor is Bungie because the world of game development changed.

Twenty years ago it did not cost tens of millions of dollars to develop and produce a video game. Now it does. When a game developer produces a successful AAA-caliber game, it makes complete sense to produce sequels that have already built up a successful name, large fanbase, and guaranteed dollars.

It is exactly the same with big-budget movies. That's why you see every big studio taking its big-budget, high-dollar risks on already successful movie franchises, already successful directors, and already successful actors.

Implying that Bungie should, on principle, start all over every time it makes a new game simply because Jason Jones said something twenty years ago that has zero applicability to the video game development world or the way Bungie makes games nowadays is short-sighted and petty, IMHO.

  • 02.03.2012 8:48 AM PDT

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Posted by: Cheeto666
There is a difference between making games until everyone is sick of them, and making games until you've finished telling the story you want to tell.

Bungie is done making Halo. Now it's Microsoft's decision to work Halo until no one wants it anymore.

So, in my mind, Jason is still living by what he said. They stopped making Halo games because they had made all the story that they wanted to, at least for now. 4 games (and one large expansion) hardly constitutes making games until everyone is sick of them.

Besides, look at call of duty. They have what, eight or nine games? And the vast majority of the public is still not sick of that.


Screw Call of Duty. Have you seen Mario? Or Sonic? Or the one that actually annoys me, Final Fantasy?

  • 02.03.2012 8:50 AM PDT

"Strive for your next breath. Believe that with it you can do more than with the last one..."

Reverof Nohtaram

There's nothing hypocritical about what Jones said. He never said he hates sequels and would never make one. He's simply making the point that plenty of sequels are made unnecessarily, simply because of the success of the first game.

If you look at Bungie's sequels, they are all far from unnecessary - All of them expand greatly on technology, game mechanics, and story. That's not to say Bungie had to make them - The first game in each series might have been okay on it's own. But, frankly, many people wanted more, and Bungie still had stories to tell.

Anyways, going back to the original context of the statement (Pathways into Darkness 2), All Jones' saying is that a sequel to Pathways would be unnecessary and pointless. Pathways is a complete, stand-alone game. Which isn't to say that Bungie couldn't have made sequel (and it probably would've been very good), but from what I've read, Jones seemed anxious to move on to different ideas and technology.

[Edited on 02.03.2012 9:09 AM PST]

  • 02.03.2012 8:50 AM PDT

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Twenty years later. People change their minds after twenty years. It's natural.

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  • 02.03.2012 8:50 AM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

I give up. Seriously? Jesus.

Note: I used bold text to emphasise my point. Isn't that what bold text is meant to be there for? You may have heard me, but you obviously did not understand me.

Posted by: MR DROZ

Posted by: RigZ Boi
Even to be unsure about something such as this is absurd. He is the co-founder of Bungie. How could his say-so be limited? And why would he at all want to limit it? Understand?

Posted by: MR DROZ
I didn't say one way or the other. I said we don't know. Understand?


/facepalm
Bolding the words does not make your point stronger, it just means you're speaking louder. You where heard the first time.

Being unsure is all you can be, unless you actually know how business is handled behind closed doors. Are we to believe the man waves his hand, speaks the words, and so it be done? Young man, you have much to learn about how businesses function. Being a cofounder does not necessarily entitle you to anything aside from a reserved parking space.

  • 02.03.2012 8:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.


Posted by: RigZ Boi
Your analogy involving music is flawed. Principles are something which a person, or group of people asscoiate themselves with for a lifetime. Music is a form of an entertainment, something to be enjoyed and thus people's opinions on music are always changing.
My analogy involving music is precisely on point. Jones said "I tend to dislike sequels." Then he stated why.

Nowhere did he ever state anything about "principles." He stated a personal preference, just like my personal preferences about music in 1993.

As I said before (and as others are trying to point out to you), there is nothing "hypocritical" about changing one's personal preferences. You are misusing the word or don't understand what it means. You seem to be getting frustrated here; perhaps the problem lies in the absurdity of your own assertion rather than with everybody else.

[Edited on 02.03.2012 9:04 AM PST]

  • 02.03.2012 9:04 AM PDT
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*sigh*

You just can't talk to some people.





*walks away*

  • 02.03.2012 9:30 AM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

Come back. I'm lonley x

Posted by: MR DROZ
*sigh*

You just can't talk to some people.





*walks away*

  • 02.03.2012 2:20 PM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

-blam!- it, you win... Kinda.

But I don't think gaining money by changing a core belief if altering ones 'personal preference'.

I'm not frustrated, mate. Trust me. I wouldn't get worked up over something on Bungie.net...

Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: RigZ Boi
Your analogy involving music is flawed. Principles are something which a person, or group of people asscoiate themselves with for a lifetime. Music is a form of an entertainment, something to be enjoyed and thus people's opinions on music are always changing.
My analogy involving music is precisely on point. Jones said "I tend to dislike sequels." Then he stated why.

Nowhere did he ever state anything about "principles." He stated a personal preference, just like my personal preferences about music in 1993.

As I said before (and as others are trying to point out to you), there is nothing "hypocritical" about changing one's personal preferences. You are misusing the word or don't understand what it means. You seem to be getting frustrated here; perhaps the problem lies in the absurdity of your own assertion rather than with everybody else.

  • 02.03.2012 2:23 PM PDT

"I don't care if it's God's own anti-Son of a -blam!- Machine or a giant hula-hoop!"

Posted by: RigZ Boi
-blam!- it, you win... Kinda.

But I don't think gaining money by changing a core belief if altering ones 'personal preference'.

I'm not frustrated, mate. Trust me. I wouldn't get worked up over something on Bungie.net...
Believe it or not, disliking sequels =/= core belief.

  • 02.03.2012 2:58 PM PDT

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Five games in ten years isn't greed. A lot of it was contract, but they did good to the Halo Series.

You can't in good mind call the PC PORTS of games new games. In that case, there actually is a hundred Call of Duty-s. In all reality, there are only about 8 or 9, but we act like there are jillions.

Quit exaggerating.

  • 02.03.2012 3:11 PM PDT
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Whoo.

What, does he say all sequels are terrible and he hates them?

No, he just said sequels tend to be bad, not really contradictory.

  • 02.03.2012 3:37 PM PDT

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  • 02.03.2012 3:44 PM PDT

Posted by: Changsta inc
Racism isn't wrong if it's funny.

People seem to forget that (while they were contractually issued) both Halo: ODST and Halo: Reach were both fan motivated games.

When fans first saw the ODSTs in Halo 2 they started asking if they could play as them. Likewise, when fans first figured out that there were other Spartans and different classes, they started asking if they could play them as well.
Bungie could have very easily just said '-blam!- it!' and made Halos 4 & 5 like 343 is going to and just abandon what they loved so much about the franchise that they created.

They opted not to, and instead, gave us two mind blowing games that heavily expanded and filled out many aspects of that universe that we love so much.


Thank you Bungie,
<3 U!

  • 02.03.2012 3:45 PM PDT

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