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  • Subject: I think I've cracked why "Destiny" is so secret. -Nul...
Subject: I think I've cracked why "Destiny" is so secret. -Nul...

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Oddley765

Posted by: prometheus25
That's revenue, not profit. Calculate in utilities, taxes, employee salary, R&D and advertising, then come to me with that argument.


Now you're just going at semantics. Seriously stop and think about how much revenue they bring in from -

1. Consoles when they are profitable.
2. Xbox live subscriptions.
3. Accessories and online purchases.
4. Game licensing.
5. Advertising which will be on the increase with the more online integration and apps coming into consoles.
6. Royalties.
7. Movies & TV etc.

The cost of peer to peer xbox live even combined with offices, taxes, staff, marketing, office equipment, electricity, transport, R&D, shipping, coffee, snacks and the while enchilada absolutely and categorically does not even compare.

I mean no disrespect but you have to be crazy to think in just xbox live subscriptions there isn't more than enough money to develop a next generation console and loss lead to market leading position.

There is even enough money in there to develop worldwide server farms for server based xbox live services and developer licensing of such a framework.

You are also forgetting how much comes goes between the PC side of the business with DirectX and other technologies. Even the xbox dashboard is basically the next Windows and Windows mobile.

Seriously you have to look at this and shake your head at how much money xbox/microsoft have made. I know Sony are sitting there ruing their choice to give PSN for free.


I keep reading these words in this post, but I'm not seeing any references, sources, or establishments of authority.

Simply eloquence and passion in a post are as valuable as a camp fire in Hell. This isn't speech and debate club.

Edit: And differentiating between revenue and profit is not arguing semantics. Not even by the remotest definition of the phrase. Those are two completely different beasts.

[Edited on 02.06.2012 9:08 PM PST]

  • 02.06.2012 9:06 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Oddley765
I completely agree the flagship title will be an exclusive, mostly likely Halo 4 or 5. Just because it's confirmed for 360 doesn't mean it's not for next generation as well.

As far as incentive things like single universe vs. standard multiplayer, increased graphics, better connections, AI advancements, additional maps or content for the next generation etc.

I believe the next generation has to be a cross over and backwards compatible, the installed user base is too vast now and they can't turn their back on recent hardware purchases of 360's or kinect etc.

Hence my argument things are coming sooner rather than later a new cross generation industry is emerging. We saw this with PS2 & PS3, the PS2 sold so well they had to include backwards compatibility. It's something xbox has always struggled with and now the industry faces as a whole.

The console will be teased with exclusives but that does not exclude sales from gamers wanting the best games exclusive and non-exclusive. Further the existing base already have XBL subscriptions too now don't they.
"Backwards compatibility" does not mean that a game developed for a newer console will also work on an older console. It means that games developed for the older console will work on the newer console.

That is what the PS3 had, and that is what the XBox 360 had for some games (such as Halo: CE).

But no, you will never see a AAA-caliber title developed for the most advanced console also be compatible with older consoles. That would make no sense; the developer would have to reduce the game's size and graphics to fit into the capabilities of the lesser system. And you can bet that no exclusive/flagship title will ever do this, for all of the reasons I said before.

  • 02.06.2012 9:16 PM PDT


Posted by: prometheus25
Edit: And differentiating between revenue and profit is not arguing semantics. Not even by the remotest definition of the phrase. Those are two completely different beasts.


By semantics I'm inferring it's pointless to even bother calculating the profit from the revenue. It's a calculation so one sided I don't even need to bother going to gather the references for something so blindingly obvious.

  • 02.06.2012 9:19 PM PDT


Posted by: x Foman123 x
But no, you will never see a AAA-caliber title developed for the most advanced console also be compatible with older consoles. That would make no sense; the developer would have to reduce the game's size and graphics to fit into the capabilities of the lesser system. And you can bet that no exclusive/flagship title will ever do this, for all of the reasons I said before.


Are you seriously suggesting that PC's and other game engine platforms don't already provide such features? Why do you think games are arriving on iPads now? Why do PC games have settings to adjust such parameters? Simple because the developer approached from the other end of the development lifecycle to your post comments. They designed for it from the beginning.

Sure consoles have risen to challenge such PC development nightmares but now I believe the console industry is to change tact in the technology waters and delve into such dynamic game engine and framework systems.

The first to do so will reap enormous subscription rewards. Case in point xbox live vs PSN bottom line.

  • 02.06.2012 9:24 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Oddley765
Posted by: x Foman123 x
But no, you will never see a AAA-caliber title developed for the most advanced console also be compatible with older consoles. That would make no sense; the developer would have to reduce the game's size and graphics to fit into the capabilities of the lesser system. And you can bet that no exclusive/flagship title will ever do this, for all of the reasons I said before.


Are you seriously suggesting that PC's and other game engine platforms don't already provide such features? Why do you think games are arriving on iPads now? Why do PC games have settings to adjust such parameters? Simple because the developer approached from the other end of the development lifecycle to your post comments. They designed for it from the beginning.

Sure consoles have risen to challenge such PC development nightmares but now I believe the console industry is to change tact in the technology waters and delve into such dynamic game engine and framework systems.

The first to do so will reap enormous subscription rewards. Case in point xbox live vs PSN bottom line.
You're not even making any sense. We are not talking about PCs or iPads, and even if we were, you bet your ass that I'm suggesting that big-budget PC games don't do this. Because they don't. You can't name a single AAA-caliber title for PC or console that is also compatible with a lesser system. It simply doesn't happen, almost by definition of being such a title.

[Edited on 02.06.2012 9:43 PM PST]

  • 02.06.2012 9:42 PM PDT

Someone start arguing that Minecraft is a AAA title and that the Xbox is inferior to the PC to prove Foman wrong.
:P

  • 02.06.2012 9:45 PM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x
You can't name a single AAA-caliber title for PC or console that is also compatible with a lesser system. It simply doesn't happen, almost by definition of being such a title.
FIFA 12?

  • 02.06.2012 9:48 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Oddley765

Posted by: prometheus25
Edit: And differentiating between revenue and profit is not arguing semantics. Not even by the remotest definition of the phrase. Those are two completely different beasts.


By semantics I'm inferring it's pointless to even bother calculating the profit from the revenue. It's a calculation so one sided I don't even need to bother going to gather the references for something so blindingly obvious.


Source

Microsoft took in a $32 million profit from $1.49 billion revenue fnal (fiscal) quarter 2011. That's a ~2% profit margin. It is also stated that the company took in $1.32 billion profit across the entire year, up from $618 million the year before.

Of course, this is all just (revenue this year) - (costs this year). It's not taking into account the money invested during the development of the Xbox before launch or loses accrued during its early years. This source calculates that R&D cost Microsoft $1.3 billion, that's $1.3 billion invested before a return would be made. Here it states that hardware costs for an Xbox 360 are $170 greater per unit than what they sell. For simplicity's sake, let's assume this stays constant. With 66 million sold world-wide, that's an additional $11 billion in the red.

Where in all of this is Microsoft even going to consider that they can afford to start another console this year.

  • 02.06.2012 9:49 PM PDT

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Posted by: prometheus25Xbox 720 - sponsored by Walmart.

  • 02.06.2012 9:54 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: SonicJohn

Posted by: prometheus25Xbox 720 - sponsored by Walmart.


Hahahahaha!

Consumers would be forced to watch ads every time the console turns on. "You may skip this ad in: (11 sec)"

  • 02.06.2012 9:56 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.


Posted by: dazarobbo
Posted by: x Foman123 x
You can't name a single AAA-caliber title for PC or console that is also compatible with a lesser system. It simply doesn't happen, almost by definition of being such a title.
FIFA 12?
FIFA 12 a AAA-caliber title?

Master Chief is spinning in his grave, daz.

  • 02.06.2012 9:57 PM PDT

It has almost identical ratings to Reach.

  • 02.06.2012 10:03 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: x Foman123 x

Posted by: dazarobbo
Posted by: x Foman123 x
You can't name a single AAA-caliber title for PC or console that is also compatible with a lesser system. It simply doesn't happen, almost by definition of being such a title.
FIFA 12?
FIFA 12 a AAA-caliber title?

Master Chief is spinning in his grave, daz.
You clearly haven't played FIFA 12... The slide tackle physics rival that of every other soccer game made by FIFA in 2011 on the market today.

  • 02.06.2012 10:03 PM PDT

The beta is super awesome. RogueAssassin27 is now the person who got my Totodile's nickname. Hoo-hah! Relevant.inb4lock

What if.... Destiny is secret..... Because they are literally in starside?

  • 02.06.2012 10:11 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.


Posted by: dazarobbo
It has almost identical ratings to Reach.
That's not relevant to determining whether a game is AAA or not.

Regardless, it's an irrelevant tangent. The mobile and PS2/portable device versions of FIFA 12 are stripped down both in terms of graphics and features. They are not "backwards compatible" (ignoring the misnomer) as suggested previously; they are different games with the same name. And yes, of course, that THAT kind of thing happens with innumerable games -- especially by our friends over at EA.

  • 02.06.2012 10:23 PM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
Sarsion.net
Bnet PM Policy

[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

I get the funny/scary feeling Destiny will be on every platform.

...in some strange form or another.

Why else would they be interested in looking at how the iTunes App marketplace, or the Android marketplace works through Bungie Mobile and Aerospace?

  • 02.06.2012 10:29 PM PDT
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FIFA 12 is a great game for it's genre.

Although FIFA might of received a similar rating, it's sales and profits are also lower; the average person's want for FIFA is considerably lower than for Reach.

Posted by: dazarobbo
It has almost identical ratings to Reach.

  • 02.06.2012 10:31 PM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

While we're on the subject...

It would be interesting to have a game accessible through so many platforms, though. Not in the sense that you can play the game on every platform, but you can reach certain components on different devices.

For example:
-full game on a base gaming platform (Xbox, PC, PS3)
-messaging/basic social interaction on mobile devices
-minigames on handhelds/tablets/phones
Posted by: SonicJohn
I get the funny/scary feeling Destiny will be on every platform.

...in some strange form or another.

Why else would they be interested in looking at how the iTunes App marketplace, or the Android marketplace works through Bungie Mobile and Aerospace?

  • 02.06.2012 10:34 PM PDT
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent

If it was being developed for the new consoles then why was Bungie advertising for PS3 developers?

[Edited on 02.06.2012 10:44 PM PST]

  • 02.06.2012 10:41 PM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

There are a multitude of reasons for this.
One, the PS3 may not be replaced in a near enough future. Two, if you've got experience with the PS3, then the transition to a new Sony console may be a smoother process.
Posted by: Dr Syx
If it was being developed for the new consoles then why was Bungie advertising for PS3 developers?

  • 02.06.2012 10:47 PM PDT
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"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: cortana 5Does make sense! I'm fully on board with saying this theory is plausible then.

  • 02.06.2012 10:53 PM PDT

Key

I just figured I'd bring up once again that if Bungie did wait until the expected year of 2016 (Microsoft's estimates being that they expect the 360 to go THROUGH 2015, meaning through the entire year), then that'll be a good 7 years without anything coming out of them.

While this may makes sense with Bungie's whole affinity for 7, please stow that bit of fanboy-itude for a moment and consider that that is a VERY long time to not release a video game from a game developer like Bungie who, at the most, has usually adhered to a 2,3, or 4 year period between (major) game releases as of late.

The actual specs of the consoles themselves and the cost it'd take to make them completely aside... when you consider the time... it's quite a lot.

Just figured I'd bring that up again, as its close to the extent I can discuss due to my limited technical/fiscal knowledge...

  • 02.07.2012 12:19 AM PDT


Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Oddley765

Posted by: prometheus25
Edit: And differentiating between revenue and profit is not arguing semantics. Not even by the remotest definition of the phrase. Those are two completely different beasts.


By semantics I'm inferring it's pointless to even bother calculating the profit from the revenue. It's a calculation so one sided I don't even need to bother going to gather the references for something so blindingly obvious.


Source

Microsoft took in a $32 million profit from $1.49 billion revenue fnal (fiscal) quarter 2011. That's a ~2% profit margin. It is also stated that the company took in $1.32 billion profit across the entire year, up from $618 million the year before.

Of course, this is all just (revenue this year) - (costs this year). It's not taking into account the money invested during the development of the Xbox before launch or loses accrued during its early years. This source calculates that R&D cost Microsoft $1.3 billion, that's $1.3 billion invested before a return would be made. Here it states that hardware costs for an Xbox 360 are $170 greater per unit than what they sell. For simplicity's sake, let's assume this stays constant. With 66 million sold world-wide, that's an additional $11 billion in the red.

Where in all of this is Microsoft even going to consider that they can afford to start another console this year.


I'd reread that article mate, it's figures and textual context are all over the place. A poor copy and paste job of an article.

Here's an exact snippet of just the title alone
Microsoft's Xbox 360 Division Sees $1.32 Billion Profit For Fiscal Year 2011.

It's also a totalitarian summary of entertainment and devices division of Microsoft, not just Xbox & Xbox live (which includes the Xbox 360, PC games, and Windows Phone).

I think it is great you want to reference sources but at least get credible statistics that pertain to exactly what we are talking about.

When you factor in PC and phone as well as devices such as surface and many other you can see why they cook the books that way.

You also have your facts wrong, xbox have not lost money on their console sales for quite sometime now. Every sale is profitable these days and have been for a long time.

Suffice a means to my argument ends, I have better things to do with my time mate. You disagree fine, enjoy your mindset. Good day sir.

  • 02.07.2012 12:47 AM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x
You're not even making any sense. We are not talking about PCs or iPads, and even if we were, you bet your ass that I'm suggesting that big-budget PC games don't do this. Because they don't. You can't name a single AAA-caliber title for PC or console that is also compatible with a lesser system. It simply doesn't happen, almost by definition of being such a title.


-EDIT-
Battlefield 3 just announced an iPad game too

-EDIT-
Mass Effect also have Infiltrator for iPad announced as well. You can't tell me that's not game engine, development, artwork and resources built with this mutli-platform gaming in mind.

Err OnLive just announced support for iPad, that brings just about any game they support on console or PC to iPad too. It's part of their new wireless controller peripheral.

Any developer who chooses to support whatever platform using Unreal Engine 3, that engine supports so many platforms it's not even funny.

Already there has been mods for Unreal Tournament 3 ported to iPad. If amateurs can do so can professionals.

Fifa 12, Madden 12 and a range of A or B or C grade titles from EA as well.

Dead Space HD, Tetris and heaps of Indie or Boutique developers outside your AAA pigeon hole.


Do you really want me to keep going? Fact remains the industry can't ignore these sorts of things anymore and I believe Bungie knows this and is aiming damned high with Destiny.

[Edited on 02.08.2012 3:38 PM PST]

  • 02.07.2012 12:57 AM PDT


Posted by: cortana 5
For example:
-full game on a base gaming platform (Xbox, PC, PS3)
-messaging/basic social interaction on mobile devices
-minigames on handhelds/tablets/phones


Personally I see the it this way -
Xbox, PS3 & PC = serious FPS/MMO game or full version of whatever genre Destiny is.

Xbox & PS3 = Forge style limited editing.

PC = Full in-house tools polished and released to the public for full modding.

iPad/Tablets = RTS/RPG style play with apps to compliment the consoles/PC games. Also look at Atlas and other real time interactions as a basis for how far tablets can interact with the consoles/PC's.

iPhones/Smartphones, Androids, Windows Phones = Cut down statistics and messages, with RPG elements and custom apps maybe.

Website = awesome statistics, progress, filesharing, video rendering, social interaction/apps. Bnet on steroids basically.

[Edited on 02.07.2012 1:18 AM PST]

  • 02.07.2012 1:13 AM PDT