Halo 2 Forum
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Subject: Ignorance on new gamers

Am I the only one tired of people saying Halo 2 was a "bad game", "worst in the series"...Halo 2 is the sole reason why I would say a good majority of people got Xbox's and it spread the way it did. I know thats the only reason I switched over from playstation, and its a part of gaming history so many didnt experience. I, along with many close friends, found halo 2 to be a never ending experience, whether it was a night of glitching or customs. Halo 2 was the BEST game and in my opinion made xbox what it is today, and every game after was a huge let down. Halo 3 is part of the sole reason why I switched to COD. Too many unneeded features were being added, which took away from the simplicity that everyone love in halo 2.
P.S "Making custom games from halo 2, into real games in halo 3 was the worst idea"

  • 02.09.2012 10:05 PM PDT
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"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent

New gamers? Most of the people who hate on Halo 2 are people who have been gamers for a very long time. Most of the hate for this game dwindles in the Halo PC forum. (I should know)

[Edited on 02.09.2012 10:20 PM PST]

  • 02.09.2012 10:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx
New gamers? Most of the people who hate on Halo 2 are people who have been gamers for a very long time. Most of the hate for this game dwindles in the Halo PC forum. (I should know)

DusK comes to mind.

EDIT: what the hell? I spelled mind like mined. I really need to stop getting on the computer before I've had breakfast.

[Edited on 02.10.2012 1:13 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2012 4:37 AM PDT

Yes, I AM just that awesome.

I thought DusK just hated H2V.


Well, I think most of the love for it comes from people who started on Halo CE. However PC gamers who started with Marathon, DooM and Half-Life probably weren't used to console shooters and expected it to be completely different from Halo CE, and when it came out, they didn't like it. They probably also wanted a PC version, but look at how that turned out.

  • 02.10.2012 4:44 AM PDT
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"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: BouncedMr happy
I thought DusK just hated H2V.
He really hates Halo 2 Vista, but he definitely hates Halo 2 Xbox as well. I thought you were here back in the days when this video was constantly being posted.


Well, I think most of the love for it comes from people who started on Halo CE. However PC gamers who started with Marathon, DooM and Half-Life probably weren't used to console shooters and expected it to be completely different from Halo CE, and when it came out, they didn't like it. They probably also wanted a PC version, but look at how that turned out.Actually no. PC gamers that were around at the time of Halo's launch were extremely upset about the fact it didn't come out on PC after so much tease from Bungie. No matter what position Bungie was in they still felt extremely betrayed over what happened. Definitely after people started seeing consoles as a viable means to play First Person Shooters. Most of the PC gamers (Including myself) still feel the controller is clunky and isn't worthy of use when playing a competitive shooter. That along with aim assist. Halo 2 just magnified the hitboxes and aim assist that already made PC gamers cringe. It was reduced again in Halo 3 so that's why there's not as much towards that game. Then Reach didn't even try to be competitive so we don't really care about that game either being "Noobified". :P

  • 02.10.2012 9:46 AM PDT


Posted by: Dr Syx
Then Reach didn't even try to be competitive so we don't really care about that game either being "Noobified". :P

That's what I like about Reach more. It doesn't pretend to be skillful like some other Halo games out there.

  • 02.10.2012 1:16 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Every new Halo game is the worst one ever and completely ruins the series. Currently is is Reach (specifically the title update which tried to make Reach more like Halo 3), but when Halo 4 comes out it will be its turn to ruin Halo.

  • 02.10.2012 1:18 PM PDT


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Every new Halo game is the worst one ever and completely ruins the series. Currently is is Reach (specifically the title update which tried to make Reach more like Halo 3), but when Halo 4 comes out it will be its turn to ruin Halo.

Probably not. It's just going to be Halo 3.7, not actually Halo 4

  • 02.10.2012 1:22 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Every new Halo game is the worst one ever and completely ruins the series. Currently is is Reach (specifically the title update which tried to make Reach more like Halo 3), but when Halo 4 comes out it will be its turn to ruin Halo.

Probably not. It's just going to be Halo 3.7, not actually Halo 4

Probably true, I don't think we are going to see very much new in Halo 4. At the same time, I'm sure the forum world will find a way that it is an abomination. I will laugh if the complain about how they miss armor abilities.

  • 02.10.2012 1:45 PM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Probably not. It's just going to be Halo 3.7, not actually Halo 4[/quote]
Probably true, I don't think we are going to see very much new in Halo 4. At the same time, I'm sure the forum world will find a way that it is an abomination. I will laugh if the complain about how they miss armor abilities.
Halo 5 will probably be the next new game since Halo 3 because it will be released on the new xbox console, similar to how the Call of Duty games haven't changed much since Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare

[Edited on 02.10.2012 1:54 PM PST]

  • 02.10.2012 1:53 PM PDT


Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Every new Halo game is the worst one ever and completely ruins the series. Currently is is Reach (specifically the title update which tried to make Reach more like Halo 3), but when Halo 4 comes out it will be its turn to ruin Halo.

Probably not. It's just going to be Halo 3.7, not actually Halo 4

Probably true, I don't think we are going to see very much new in Halo 4. At the same time, I'm sure the forum world will find a way that it is an abomination. I will laugh if the complain about how they miss armor abilities.

For every thing that they change/don't change, gamers will be annoyed. You cannot please everyone. Fact.

That's why the player base is still divided between 3 and Reach, they seem even at the moment (around 30,000+ players). There are simply some changes (bloom, armour abilities etc) that some people don't like and so wanted it to change (TU update). But equally, there are those who do like those features and argue against things being nerfed/changed.

It's the same with Battlefield 3 currently, take a look at the forums there and you'll see similar results.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you're right and there will no doubt be people moaning on forums. It's just how things work, people don't like change.

  • 02.10.2012 3:54 PM PDT

There's quite a bit of irony defending Halo 2, then immediately putting down Halo 3. All the Halos had bullet magnetism, and 2 and beyond had noticeable aim assist. I am not saying halo 2 was bad, but argueing new gamers are ignorant, should love Halo 2, and should dislike Halo 3 doesn't help your argument on "ignorant gamers".

  • 02.10.2012 5:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dark Hunter21
There's quite a bit of irony defending Halo 2, then immediately putting down Halo 3. All the Halos had bullet magnetism, and 2 and beyond had noticeable aim assist. I am not saying halo 2 was bad, but argueing new gamers are ignorant, should love Halo 2, and should dislike Halo 3 doesn't help your argument on "ignorant gamers".
This.

H2 introduced vehicle variants and Covie weapon equivalents. This variety can be appreciated by some but I find that it's kinda pointless if the weapons are underpowered (in campaign).

H2 introduced dual wielding but it didn't really improve on the gameplay. It just added to the firepower. I would have liked to be shooting 2-3 enemies at once.

H2 introduced a linear aspect to Halo which was limited on most CE levels. Fortunately, it still allowed one to break through those limitations (in some cases).

Finally, H2 introduced skulls but their clear purpose was for fun and when combined, make a deadly combination, making LASO unpleasant in most cases.

Of course, H3 made it worse:

-broken geometry (weapons falling through the ground)
-underpowered weapons are even more limited
-needler is now nooby
-AR is less reliable than the H2 SMG
-that stupid bounce thing with the fuel rod gun
-less grenades
-proper Brutes but they were slow
-animation velocity is absurd (Brute berserking, Grunt panicking, Jackal diving)
-skulls are primarily difficulty enhancers. I'd rather have a bunch of fun skulls. Skulls can't be turned on or off without restarting level.

And let's not forget about Reach, that had some decent weapons that were limited by Bloom (except the Needle Rifle), lack of shield bleedthrough, lack of ammo (in my case, Needlers. This was also in ODST, for the silenced magnum) or underpowered damage (plasma rifle bolts, concussion rifle shots).

It's clear Bungie had lost their sense of balancing...

  • 02.11.2012 1:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: CTN 0452 9
Every new Halo game is the worst one ever and completely ruins the series. Currently is is Reach (specifically the title update which tried to make Reach more like Halo 3), but when Halo 4 comes out it will be its turn to ruin Halo.
This is 343 we're talking about though. The TU for Reach was because it was the newest Halo game.

I think 343 will capture the following:

-sense of mystery, exploration, and discovery from CE
-story of H2
-epicness of H3
-sense of familiarity of ODST
-capabilities of Reach (more active AI)

And will feature entirely new gameplay, which will fit in due to the above. I just hope that it will be like CE, where every weapon has a chance, rather than H2 or H3, where there are some that will undoubtedly be left alone (i.e. the magnum). I'd like to want to pick up any weapon I come across.

[Edited on 02.11.2012 1:28 AM PST]

  • 02.11.2012 1:26 AM PDT


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
I think 343 will capture the following:

-sense of mystery, exploration, and discovery from CE
-story of H2
-epicness of H3
-sense of familiarity of ODST
-capabilities of Reach (more active AI)

343i didn't make the map packs, CEA, or even their website! They can't do all of that, that's probably written in stone.

BTW, why did you close your Youtube account? I know you were going into the dark, but that wasn't necessary.

  • 02.11.2012 1:47 AM PDT
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Sometimes, I dream about cheese.


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-epicness of H3
epic? Halo 3? lol

  • 02.11.2012 2:49 AM PDT

no. nonono

Are people not allowed opinions?

  • 02.11.2012 4:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: InvasionImminent

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
I think 343 will capture the following:

-sense of mystery, exploration, and discovery from CE
-story of H2
-epicness of H3
-sense of familiarity of ODST
-capabilities of Reach (more active AI)

343i didn't make the map packs, CEA, or even their website! They can't do all of that, that's probably written in stone.

BTW, why did you close your Youtube account? I know you were going into the dark, but that wasn't necessary.
Better than Bungie.

I have lost any interest in maintaining it. I have also given up on Halo 2 and Halo 3 and am reconsidering playing Halo: Reach. I've already decided to work with CE.

Posted by: path1k

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
-epicness of H3
epic? Halo 3? lol
The Storm: Rocket launcher marines vs. everything + Scarab
The Ark: tank battle culminating in the arrival of a Scarab
The Covenant: 2 Scarabs battle

  • 02.11.2012 9:24 AM PDT
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halo 2 still the best game in the series. long live halo 2.

Dam, I miss the old days playing halo 2 with my old brothers in arms. Thank you my old friends for giving me this account, I shall continue our legacy.


Posted by: droppedasababy
Are people not allowed opinions?


They are allowed to have opinions but here they are judged harshly.

  • 02.11.2012 11:11 AM PDT


Posted by: MikeTwista
Halo 3 is part of the sole reason why I switched to COD. Too many unneeded features were being added, which took away from the simplicity that everyone love in halo 2.


What unneeded features?
i still play halo 3 because it is basic without an overflow of unneeded features.


[Edited on 02.11.2012 12:35 PM PST]

  • 02.11.2012 12:34 PM PDT

Yes, I AM just that awesome.

Posted by: droppedasababy
Are people not allowed opinions?
http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/Vanderlin/Stop-liki ng-what-I-dont-like.jpg

  • 02.11.2012 1:23 PM PDT


Posted by: Killerboy JJ

Posted by: MikeTwista
Halo 3 is part of the sole reason why I switched to COD. Too many unneeded features were being added, which took away from the simplicity that everyone love in halo 2.


What unneeded features?
i still play halo 3 because it is basic without an overflow of unneeded features.

In my opinion, equipment was completely unnecessary and only served to cause annoyances. Whoever had the right equipment would win most engagements unless they were fools.

  • 02.11.2012 2:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Wilis_kid

Posted by: Killerboy JJ

Posted by: MikeTwista
Halo 3 is part of the sole reason why I switched to COD. Too many unneeded features were being added, which took away from the simplicity that everyone love in halo 2.


What unneeded features?
i still play halo 3 because it is basic without an overflow of unneeded features.

In my opinion, equipment was completely unnecessary and only served to cause annoyances. Whoever had the right equipment would win most engagements unless they were fools.
Most of them just made the game even slower. Only Cloaking, Trip Mine, and Gravity Lift were negligible.

  • 02.11.2012 4:23 PM PDT

lol

How did the Halo series go from so good to so dry.

  • 02.11.2012 4:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: SPARTAAA 117
How did the Halo series go from so good to so dry.
Reasons:

-focus on difficulty. It's everywhere: the damage sponge, semi-omniscient enemy AI, the piss poor friendly AI, the lack of cps, the -blam!- pointless scenery items, enemy damage, AI focusing on player, and the skulls
-focus on aesthetics
-linear gameplay results in superficial gameplay. As a result, all the flaws are well hidden from those who just play through the campaign and are done with it. People who try to make something out of the campaigns will encounter difficulties and unnecessary challenges... furthermore, campaign becomes a gimmick itself. Mp becomes the main thing
-inconsistencies
-lack of realism/immersion. Too much of this is bad but it shouldn't be so blatantly obvious
-excessive scripting. I tried out Battlefield 3 and although it was somewhat interesting, I was appalled by how the first level was characterized by button prompts. Also, I downloaded several Custom Edition mods and 1 of them was nearly identical to the H2 E3 demo... but guess what? Heck lot of scripting. Later on the same level, I encountered a sword Elite with absurd shield recharge rate. This scripting problem is also the case for the CoD games...

I would have liked H2 and H3 to not have been rushed and for them to be worked on for at least 4 years before release. 1-2 years is just going to result in a slightly different Halo and that's going to get boring fast.

I find myself playing Custom Edition mods nowadays because how dissatisfied I am with H2 and H3. This would have been great if it wasn't a 99.9% imitation of Halo 3. The weak plasma pistol and nerfed plasma rifle are made up for with ammo abundance but still, Halo 3 wasn't perfect and it shouldn't be just copied and pasted. It requires serious review. Same thing with Halo 2.

Halo 3 turned out to be a watered down Halo 2 and doing the same thing as it's predecessor: adding stuff while neglecting important stuff (identified here).

TLDR: Bungie tried to enhance gameplay, not improve it. Gimmicks, gimmicks, gimmicks. Halo 1 works because it's simple and balanced. Just a little improving would have given it a significant increase.

When Halo 4 comes out, I'll have a decent template to determine if it qualifies as a worthy successor of CE:

-cp system: cps should be awarded for hard work
-scripting: these should only introduce the player to encounters and should not have too much of a big role in gameplay, other than AI driving.
-AI: need to be challenging and intimidating but not cheap. Also need to be appealing to fight. H3 Grunts are ugly. H2 Brutes are damage sponges. H1 Flood are boring. Reach Jackals are abomination. None of them are fun to fight.
-weapon sandbox: balanced and all of them usable.
-combat: needs to be engaging and rousing and needs to appeal to all kinds of play styles. Stealth, cqc, marksmen, etc. Shouldn't take too long but also shouldn't take like 1 minute to finish off a group of enemies. It also shouldn't be interrupted.
-encounters: need to be varied, organized, and increasing in number

[Edited on 02.11.2012 7:17 PM PST]

  • 02.11.2012 7:06 PM PDT

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