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This topic has moved here: Subject: Make Grunts Playable Characters in Multi-player!
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Subject: Make Grunts Playable Characters in Multi-player!
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  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

That would be the -blam!-! How awesome would it be to play as one of them little guys?! Running around duel-wielding Needlers as a Grunt. Tell me that wouldn't rock? (Other than the fact that you can get killed really, really, really easy, 1 shot to the face with just about any gun, but still).

  • 05.19.2006 5:44 PM PDT
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It Would be fun....but kind of stupid =P

  • 05.19.2006 5:44 PM PDT
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  • 05.19.2006 5:46 PM PDT
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What are you talking about? Imagine 8 on 8 Grunt battle on a level like Midship!

  • 05.19.2006 5:47 PM PDT
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Sometimes I'm thankful for the fact that Bungie doesn't take fan requests.

  • 05.19.2006 5:47 PM PDT

grunts kind of blow, dont they?

  • 05.19.2006 5:48 PM PDT
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i suppose it would be pretty fun for a while, but i'd get really pissed from dying so damn easily.

  • 05.19.2006 5:51 PM PDT

You might as well play SWAT. Grunts don't have shields.

  • 05.19.2006 5:53 PM PDT
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Only if there's a grunt voice mask so we all sound squeaky.

  • 05.19.2006 5:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: DeathDealer299
Sometimes I'm thankful for the fact that Bungie doesn't take fan requests.


QFT

Elites almost ruined the last one because they were so unbalanced. If you open your brain and actually think about grunts in multiplayer you too will see just how stupid it sounds.

Hell! Lets have flood infection form battles. Everyone pops! YAY!

  • 05.19.2006 5:56 PM PDT
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uhhh no...

  • 05.19.2006 5:57 PM PDT
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It would probably work in a Juggernaut type of game, where one person is the grunt and tries to run from everyone else...but no, I don't think it should be playable model of the norm, stick to sparts and elites.

  • 05.19.2006 6:03 PM PDT
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Don't be an idiot, it would be fun for half an hour. Bungie needs to focus on the necesities of the thriving players who are seroius about Halo, and not so much on the ones who play every 2 months just to be morons. They should not hold a burden of having grunts playable when they have more important things to do. Also, many hardcore players would feel ashamed and almost embarrassed to have such a comical and pointless character.

  • 05.19.2006 6:10 PM PDT
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how about this? NO!!!

  • 05.19.2006 6:13 PM PDT
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"You must face the truth squarely and without flinching from duty. Our enemies are mortal no longer. Mercy for such as they is a chimera, self-deception is its only ally. Dedicate this weapon, given unto your hand at the behest of the Emperor, to their destruction. Regard its function as your only duty: you live only to bring cleansing fire."

no, no playable grunts cause that would be slaughter

  • 05.19.2006 6:15 PM PDT

why not have one juggernaut mode that makes 15 grunt players versus one hunter player.

the first grunt to kill the hunter becomes the hunter, the most kills accumulated by the grunts win.

  • 05.19.2006 6:32 PM PDT

Grunts + Multiplayer = NO!

That is such an idiotic idea I dont even know what to say. Keep it simple. Elites and Spartans.

  • 05.19.2006 6:35 PM PDT
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it would be good if u could be every character in multiplayer mode

  • 05.19.2006 6:42 PM PDT
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It doesn't work cuz other than elites and spartans NO OTHER CHARACTERS HAVE SHIELDS which would screw up Bungie's system of using shields... unless they use combat flood which is gai

  • 05.19.2006 7:33 PM PDT
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I think grunts as a character/skin might be fun to play... but then again, where do you end putting in what ever characters. its all good (and relative).

  • 05.19.2006 7:36 PM PDT
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Good example of retardedness dude!!!
Unless they gave them shields and made then as tall as Sparts/Elites then it is 1)Pointless 2)Retarded and 3) GRUNTS WOULD GET OWNED!

PS::: they CANT use anything but plasma pistol, plasma rifle, needler, and fuel rod cannon, and plasma nades. And thats like 30% of weapons on a map...some maps might not even HAVE some of those guns.

[Edited on 5/19/2006]

  • 05.19.2006 7:42 PM PDT
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While it's obvious to most that this would be a bad idea, I've decided to write in detail the logic behind this:

Sure, playing as grunts and hunters would be fun... and so would firing a scarab gun at everyone else on the level, but we look down upon that because it's obviously u n b a l a n c e d.

However, the same concept applies here. I've said many times (even wrote out a few insanely long posts showing through pseudo-equations how it would ruin gameplay) but still, the masses turn a blind eye.

First, ask yourself why you want to be a character other than the chief. Most times, the reasons are:
-to be a grunt, and run around acting silly
-to be your "favorite" character, for no reason other than it being your favorite
-to have unique characteristics (flying with the sentinel, the hunter's fuel rod cannon, jackal's shield and speed, etc...)

Two of these reasons would result in short-term excitement, but once the initial excitement wore off and these things were accepted at "normal", it would seem just as dull as the spartan/elite choice we have now. Not to mention it would have a critical impact on gameplay... which brings me to my main point.

GAMEPLAY

Right now, as of Halo 2, we have two playable characters: the chief, and the elite. The chief is preferred over the elite due to a smaller head, which gives him a gameplay advantage. Now, keep in mind, this is after Bungie intentionally tried to balance them to be exactly equal.

They chose to [attempt to] make them equal for good reason. Adding different attributes to characters makes Halo a different game, case and point. And such a drastic change completely destroys the foundation on which Halo was built: Equality. Balance.

Let’s look at how such a change would “drastically” impact gameplay:

First off, discrepancy in models. It’s no secret that this is the reason Master Chief is the preferred model in Halo 2. The Elite’s head is larger, and is in front of its chest, making it an easier kill. This is only a minor detail compared to the differences between the grunt, jackal, hunter, brute, flood, sentinel, and any other character you can think of in the Halo universe. Do you honestly think these could be implemented into gameplay in an organized, balanced fashion? Compare the size of a grunt to a brute. It’s no huge leap of faith to tell who would have the advantage.

Secondly, discrepancies in the character’s backgrounds. Grunts don’t have rechargeable shields. Neither do brutes, hunters, (most) flood, jackals, and most other characters. Giving them these attributes doesn’t fall in line with the story, and really just doesn’t make sense.

Third, and most importantly, unique attributes. This is the hardest one to argue against. It’s hard to describe just exactly HOW different characters having different stats would ruin gameplay, but I think I’ve come to a decent conclusion.

Say you have, Chief, a Hunter, and a Grunt. You keep chief the same, you give the hunter all of its amazing attributes (but include the 1-shot-kill if hit in the orange area), and the Grunt, being small and quick, has that advantage going for him.

Let’s assume that bungie balanced these characters PERFECTLY. There is still the problem of equality. Halo is a competitive game, you can’t argue about that. But how can you judge who’s more skillful, when nobody is playing under the same rules? This is the simple way of putting it. Now for the hard stuff.

Let’s define skill. For the sake of this thread, I’m going to define skill as:

An advantage in a game based on prior experience instead of predetermined discrepancies in players.

I’d say that’s a pretty accurate description. Now, according to that alone, adding unique models takes away a majority of skill. But we can describe this in better detail aswell.

How does one attain skill? Simply by playing a game for an extended period of time, and developing reflex techniques against every situation. You know you are truly skilled in a certain aspect when you reflexively react and win consistently without needing to stop and think about what you’re going to do. Thinking goes into another category: strategy. Don’t get strategy and skill confused, they are completely different. Strategy is a plan of action, Skill is the ability to follow through with that plan, or even react without any strategy planned. When you can react without forming a strategy, that means you can react independently of the situation around you.

Now, one of the most notable stepping stones in skill is aim. Precise aiming comes instinctively, as you get used to the general height of your opponents and the situations you find them in most often. This is because of repetition… that’s where skill comes from. Now, if you change all the models around, so everyone is different, this obliterates the repetition that was formed in the game. No longer can you instinctively see things and react (no matter how “skilled” you are), because of the huge, random variety of things that could happen as a result. You could argue it would take more skill because things are unpredictable, and as a result it is a test of your reflexes. But this is not the case. Say you are getting shot from behind. You instinctively wheel around and fire 4 quick bursts, only to realize that you’ve aimed a full 2 feet above the grunt that’s coming after you. Obviously, from the time this reaction takes, you’re as good as dead. There’s no way of telling if that was a grunt or a brute. This randomness would actually deter skill.

And, it would turn Halo into a rock-paper-scissors game. Certain characters would have definite advantages over other characters, regardless of balance. While you may argue that this is good for team-oriented gameplay, Halo isn’t generally team-oriented in the first place. You shouldn’t have to rely on your team to help you all the time. Having certain classes beat certain other classes would lead the game into a trough of luck and randomness. You’re a jackal, and you turn a corner, boom, a hunter, the one enemy that has a weapon your shield can’t block. Oh boy, what now? Or, you’re a brute, you turn the corner, and get mowed down with an assault rifle in less than a second because you have no shields.

While this is just a fraction of my argument against multiple characters, it covers some of the main points. Hopefully, after reading this, you can make a better decision as to what is or isn’t a good addition to the game.

And always ask yourself, “Why fix what isn’t broken?”

-PK

  • 05.19.2006 7:42 PM PDT

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