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This topic has moved here: Poll [84 votes]: Is Close Quarters Combat essential to Halo Reach
  • Poll [84 votes]: Is Close Quarters Combat essential to Halo Reach
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Subject: Is Close Quarters Combat essential to Halo Reach

Poll: Is Close Quarters Combat essential to Halo Reach  [closed]
Yes:  70%
(59 Votes)
No:  30%
(25 Votes)
Total Votes: 84

Hello I'm Hag,

This thread relates to the Title Updates and how they have negatively impacted the Halo Reach game play.

I've been a gamer since the days of ATARI way back when I was just shedding the pampers and old enough to pick up a joystick. I can remember how amazing Halo was when it was first released. I remember the mind numbing excitement of Halo 2 first going multiplayer and defeating opponents on a world scale.

While deployed to Iraq in 2004 we played Halo 2 two TVs back to back 4 on 4 inside our small CHUs (contained housing units.) It was the best way you could ever imagine to pass the time in such a harsh environment. Needless to say I've been a huge fan since the very first day and I've played Halo Reach exclusively for the past year.

On the 7th of this month Feb/2012 the TU change hit rumble pit. For those of you who don't know the TU change drastically and completely alters the interaction between players on the playing field and thus changes the game itself.

This issue seems to revolve around one weapon in the game and those people who have been perfecting their use of that weapon. That is to say those who perfected it and want the bloom/firing rate changed. For the ones who thought it was fine the way it was when Reach came out and are also very skilled at using the weapon efficiently and accurately the game play is also unfortunately damaged. The weapon in question here is the DMR for those who didn't know. The TU change seems to tailor the entire game to the use of this one weapon, those that wanted it changed and the issues that have surrounded it.

The thing that has always set Halo apart from other recent shooter games aside from the incredible artistry and other great aspects are the Close Quarters interactions. I have been loving the -blam!- out of Halo Reach for the past year for the heart pumping, adrenaline inducing, white knuckle action of Close Quarters combat. In the TU change Close Quarters is DEAD. Let me say that again. In the TU change Close Quarters is D.E.A.D. dead.

Close Quarters combat is essential to the game. Let me say that on more time. Close Quarters combat is ESSENTIAL to the game. Its really what sets Halo Reach apart from other shooter games who are not worthy to be mentioned here. TU changes the pummel damage and removes the sword duel among other things. Myself and others completely disagree with these changes. This shortens interaction between players and dramatically lessens opportunity for brilliance that comes from this type of game play. For those of us on the higher end of the skill spectrum who have been honing these skills for years now the games allows us a chance to showcase our ability.

We thought that the Rumble Pit was the last sacred place where the game gods of Halo realized this as a simple truth. There was no opportunity given to vote TU out in rumble pit and that is a crying shame. Rumble pit has been home to many of us avoiding the TU change. Now the only place Close Quarters is still alive is in Team Slayer and that may change also very soon. Those of us missing Close Quarters have been playing nothing but team slayer since the 7th and voting TU out!

To those of you in favor of the TU. Know that Hagbar has nothing against you. In fact I admire your love of the game. You must realize though that the game has an incredible dynamic that includes all weapons and load outs. This game would never be what it is was without us who have perfected our skill in other areas. We enhance the dynamic. You and the game are at a serious loss without us and one day I hope you realize that.

I should also give a brief shout out to my jet packing friends. The "He who shoots first wins" or TU change is killing your game and I feel your pain also.

I speak now to the Halo Overlords that have mandated these udates. I believe that your initial intentions to appease the vocal crowd asking for these changes were in the right place but could you have been a little hypersensitive in your decision to make a complete overhaul? In recording votes for the bloom changes weren't you measuring only those were interested in that aspect of the game. Those of us who loved the game just the way it was have been fine to play and keep quiet up until now. Please, please, please, bring Close Quarters back to Halo Reach and in doing so bring the game back to its full glory. Make pummel damage just the way it was. Bring back the sword duel. Stay open to the idea that you must once again adjust the bloom. ARE YOU OUT THERE!!? ARE YOU LISTENING!?

I put together a little video montage of me defeating the sword holder when ONLY a duel was involved. This happens to be one of my favorite aspects of the game and one of the most intense Close Quarters moments during the game. Unfortunately Hagbar is a Halo lover not a movie maker so the video is grainy I know but I hope the action speaks for itself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY7V5UJVoQQhttp:// This is the type of action that has been removed completely and I am appalled.

Reach Closed Quarters Combat Join the movement to keep this essential dynamic alive in the game.

Love to you all,

Hagbar






[Edited on 02.17.2012 8:59 AM PST]

  • 02.17.2012 7:24 AM PDT

So basically you're saying they should remove bleedthrough.

I agree, but all that text isn't really necessary to get that point across. Bleedthrough just sucks and dumbs down the game.

  • 02.17.2012 7:28 AM PDT

100% Australian.

My Connection
My House
My Pet

Being on the receiving end of pummel-sprint-pummel is not essential to a positive gaming experience.

Nice wall OP.

  • 02.17.2012 7:28 AM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.


Posted by: HagbarChaline
For the ones who thought it was fine the way it was when Reach came out and are also very skilled at using the weapon efficiently and accurately the game play is also unfortunately damaged.


There was no skill, it was a random weapon with bloom. Someone can say that they're skilled at rocks-paper-scissors, but there is nothing to it except lucky guessing. I don't feel like posting the insanely large argument, but the DMR with bloom is inconsistent: the fact that there is a CHANCE that someone can kill really fast by spamming the trigger (get rewarded for doing exactly what the system does NOT want them to do) completely throws out the concept of skill-based shooting. This takes using the DMR at its highest level and centers it around being lucky.



TU changes the pummel damage and removes the sword duel among other things. Myself and others completely disagree with these changes. This shortens interaction between players and dramatically lessens opportunity for brilliance that comes from this type of game play. For those of us on the higher end of the skill spectrum who have been honing these skills for years now the games allows us to a chance showcase our ability.


The old melee system was awkward/slow and rewarded players, once again, for being stupid. A blind idiot sprinting straight at a guy from the end of a long hallway will kill/cancel out with the patient player that shot at him because they both double meleed in the end: 4 DMR shots + double melee == double melee. The damage required for a bleedthrough kill could be toned up a bit, because it is pretty fast at the moment, but it is definitely superior (IMO) to non-bleedthrough.


We thought that the Rumble Pit was the last sacred place where the game gods of Halo realized this as a simple truth.


el oh el


The "He who shoots first wins" or TU change is killing your game and I feel your pain also.

Thats completely false and one-sided. When you watch most competitive games, many players that do not shoot first win simply due to their ability to strafe and maneuver; that logic ignores pretty much 50% of the skill behind using the DMR and is pretty much only true if you're constantly playing while not moving or by just running straight at the opponent.




PS: your poll is biased...

[Edited on 02.17.2012 7:49 AM PST]

  • 02.17.2012 7:46 AM PDT

The poll is a simple yes or no. The TU update is biased and centers the game around the DMR

  • 02.17.2012 9:02 AM PDT


Posted by: Mikelp_1
The old melee system was awkward/slow and rewarded players, once again, for being stupid. A blind idiot sprinting straight at a guy from the end of a long hallway will kill/cancel out with the patient player that shot at him because they both double meleed in the end: 4 DMR shots + double melee == double melee. The damage required for a bleedthrough kill could be toned up a bit, because it is pretty fast at the moment, but it is definitely superior (IMO) to non-bleedthrough.


The old system didn't reward idiots at all. It rewarded the smart players. Unfortunately, seemingly all of Reach's population was too stupid to figure it out. Nobody MADE you melee at the same time you were meleed when somebody ran across the map to double melee you. If you had any sort of intelligence whatsoever, you could easily keep shooting during his melee until his shield dropped (not to mention you have all the time he's running at you in a straight line to come hit you the first time) and when his shield drops during his melee, THEN you melee.

No-bleedthrough allowed people to live through melee battles. Now all it is is AR/DMR&melee deathcharges and traded kills. Beforehand, if you weren't stupid enough to think "zOMG I HAV TU MELE CUZ HE HIT ME!!11", and you actually waited until you shot the guy's shields down to melee, you could walk away from the battle.

Too bad nobody wants to keep the more skilled method though. They'd all rather have the AR deatcharge tradekill back than the chance to walk away the victor.

  • 02.17.2012 9:08 AM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.


Posted by: An average gamer

Posted by: Mikelp_1
The old melee system was awkward/slow and rewarded players, once again, for being stupid. A blind idiot sprinting straight at a guy from the end of a long hallway will kill/cancel out with the patient player that shot at him because they both double meleed in the end: 4 DMR shots + double melee == double melee. The damage required for a bleedthrough kill could be toned up a bit, because it is pretty fast at the moment, but it is definitely superior (IMO) to non-bleedthrough.


The old system didn't reward idiots at all. It rewarded the smart players. Unfortunately, seemingly all of Reach's population was too stupid to figure it out. Nobody MADE you melee at the same time you were meleed when somebody ran across the map to double melee you. If you had any sort of intelligence whatsoever, you could easily keep shooting during his melee until his shield dropped (not to mention you have all the time he's running at you in a straight line to come hit you the first time) and when his shield drops during his melee, THEN you melee.

No-bleedthrough allowed people to live through melee battles. Now all it is is AR/DMR&melee deathcharges and traded kills. Beforehand, if you weren't stupid enough to think "zOMG I HAV TU MELE CUZ HE HIT ME!!11", and you actually waited until you shot the guy's shields down to melee, you could walk away from the battle.


Wow, you must be right, because rate of fire is something that is apparently nonexistent to your scenarios; you're clearly correct, because you're just smarter than everyone and your sub-par stats can prove it. According to you, a player's gun will have a rate of fire that will allow it to simply pump out an extra 1 or 2 shots + allow you to melee someone in the time that it takes the enemy to transition from the start of melee #1 to melee #2. I had no clue that you could shoot a few shots in the time that it takes someone to land 1 melee from right next to you; I guess I should start taking advice from you, I mean, you do claim to be smarter than the rest of Reach's population (seemingly). How stupid of me, fixed rates of fire don't exist.

For you to actually think that kills were traded less in vanilla Reach is ridiculous, but I guess it's just because you're smarter than everyone here.

Too bad nobody wants to keep the more skilled method though. They'd all rather have the AR deatcharge tradekill back than the chance to walk away the victor.

Yeah...keep calling it skill...
...and keep using less successful outcomes as the results of the majority of scenarios.

You should also create a guide to how to maintain a less-than positive DMR KD so competitive players can take you seriously when you spout off your opinions (and bash those that differ from you) towards how a competitive game mechanic should work as you call yourself smarter than them.

  • 02.17.2012 10:23 AM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.


Posted by: HagbarChaline
The poll is a simple yes or no. The TU update is biased and centers the game around the DMR


If your poll is supposed to be related to your original post:

General Question: is close quarters essential to Halo?
Results sought after: do you agree with me? (TU melee is bad)


It is like me going around looking for support for investing money into building a research center for finding a cure for childhood cancers by making a poll and asking people a general, unrelated question: "Do you think dying children is a good thing?"

Of course no one (...that isn't sadistic) is going to say "yes. I love when children die," so basing those results on whether or not those people would support the cause is completely inapplicable.

  • 02.17.2012 10:31 AM PDT

Hell yeah.

  • 02.17.2012 12:12 PM PDT

The Tech Game

1,000,000+ Members, and still going strong!

Sure

  • 02.17.2012 12:14 PM PDT
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Yes

  • 02.17.2012 12:14 PM PDT

I think what's essential is you killing the enemy before they have the opportunity to get close.

  • 02.17.2012 12:28 PM PDT

"Do you think dying children is a good thing?"

Of course no one (...that isn't sadistic) is going to say "yes. I love when children die," so basing those results on whether or not those people would support the cause is completely inapplicable."

Yeah so I guess he told me. For future reference I won't be responding to anyone that makes dumb remarks other than doing this. My Rumble stats vs. yours http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/careerstats/weapons.aspx?pl ayer=HagbarChaline&vc=3&pf=101&compare=Loscocco

You see here. This guy doesn't play rumble pit but could give a rats ass that we are fans of it and just wants it to be his way. This attitude is pervasive when discussing the TU update and I'm not being nice anymore. You want to talk about stats feel free to compare your rumble stats next to mine. This type attitude transcends even the game really. Someone wants to decide whats best for everyone. I never had anything against TU in other playlists (although I know that others did.) We will bring the game back to its full glory. Been around longer than you and I'm not going anywhere





[Edited on 02.17.2012 2:02 PM PST]

  • 02.17.2012 1:51 PM PDT

Someone already posted something about what im posting they said. The original halo didn't reward people for being stupid. If i was to pull the trigger as fast as possible in original halo reach i would lose. I had to pace my shots. Watch my bloom. And people that say armor lock is "cheap/Over powered" i would have to say are ignorant. Its not hard to counter it. Take a few steps back and a well placed & timed grenade will drop them like its nothing. I love the fact the MLG community was saying it was to hard and not "fair" enough for them to play on original... WHAT mlg is for SKILLED players thats why it is for the MAJOR LEAGUE. Honestly halo is no fun while playing TU i always win on TU because i dont even have to try. I want my old halo reach back. I want to have the feeling if im smart and this kid isnt and dosnt pace his shots. I WILL WIN. How is any of this right. Take 15% less bloom, ok then add bleed through = Spam trigger + 4 bullets = instant kill... then take the dumb downed armor lock so the guys shields cant recharge as much now you have... Spam trigger + 4 bullets + The guy who cant stand a chance in armor lock. Whats the fun in that? I mean really come on. Look at all this in a big picture and you will see its wrong and its ruining halo.

  • 02.17.2012 3:16 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.

I agree OP, vote Vanilla everyone!

  • 02.17.2012 4:57 PM PDT

Ohai, I'm Loscocco (pronounced Loss-cocoa). I'm a college student (computer science major), 3D animator, and long-time Halo player.


Posted by: HagbarChaline

Yeah so I guess he told me. For future reference I won't be responding to anyone that makes dumb remarks other than doing this. My Rumble stats vs. yours http://www.bungie.net/stats/reach/careerstats/weapons.aspx?pl ayer=HagbarChaline&vc=3&pf=101&compare=Loscocco

You see here. This guy doesn't play rumble pit but could give a rats ass that we are fans of it and just wants it to be his way. This attitude is pervasive when discussing the TU update and I'm not being nice anymore. You want to talk about stats feel free to compare your rumble stats next to mine. This type attitude transcends even the game really. Someone wants to decide whats best for everyone. I never had anything against TU in other playlists (although I know that others did.) We will bring the game back to its full glory. Been around longer than you and I'm not going anywhere






So you're better/more valid than me because you beat me in a playlist that I've played 16 times and usually play with friends to troll randoms? It's not like rumble pit is a completely new game with different mechanics...

The worst part is that your emphasis towards how the melee system should work, in your opinion, covered all of Reach, not just rumble pit. You started with how you were individually affected when the TU hit rumble pit, then you started talking about the negative aspects of the TU in general. Now you're trying to back up why I don't have any clue how the TU works, in all playlists, by comparing only rumble pit stats. If you're going to try to make yourself seem more credible about the TU, in general, look at our general stats and, with your logic, "my opinion should be more valid because my general stats are better..."


Now lets look at the entire contradictory point of your last paragraph/original post. You accuse me of trying to shape the game the way that I want, but you're doing the EXACT same thing to a much higher degree. You're talking about why TU melee is a flaw to HALO REACH and then you just say that the flaw affects you now that it is in Rumble Pit. What is even more hypocritical is that you talk like you can speak for all of Rumble Pit and your opinion is all of Rumble Pit's opinion. I think this is what is funniest:


[This guy is] Someone wants to decide whats best for everyone.


We will bring the game back to its full glory.

Basically, the entire thread has been like this:

You: "TU is a plague (that finally hit me) and it needs to stop."
Me: "I dislike normal reach, good riddance."
You: "Stop trying to control the game!"





In short: if you're going to falsely accuse me of trying to speak for an entire population, stop talking like your opinion is all of Rumble Pit's.

  • 02.17.2012 6:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: HagbarChaline
Hello I'm Hag,

I lol'd

  • 02.17.2012 6:58 PM PDT

In soviet B.net you don't delete the flood, the flood deletes you.

If the following has ever happened to you on the flood: been butthurt, offended, angry from someone's post, feel like Nerd Raging . . . you have the right to SHUT UP

Also, if you play Reach this is YOU

yeah cqc is essential for halo alright, more specifically reach. The bad players and derps who herp derp melee and fail to aim with precision weapons.

  • 02.17.2012 8:29 PM PDT

The funny thing i have been noticing on about ALL MLG reach threads is there all crying about it being a slow paced game... NO -blam!-! The slow paced gameplay is what entitles you to PACE YOUR MOTHER -blam!- SHOTS. And your crying that someone actually has the chance to run away when getting shot. If TU passes its honestly going to be just ANOTHER call of duty! EASY kills FAST paced games where no one THINKS they just shoot. Think about what your saying. Sincerely think DONT BRUSH THIS POST OFF YOUR SHOUDLERS. Think about all the aspects of TU and you WILL realize that its AWFUL halo reach used to reward the good players and punish the stupid. Well now all the good players and tactical players are just as good as the people that cant pace one shot. If TU passes you wont see me on anymore.

  • 02.18.2012 7:27 AM PDT

I am from Mars, that is why I wear red and was issued the MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor/M variant helmet, was also issued the experimental version of the Camo unit, that is why i have the Recon shoulder. I excel at CQB, hence the CQC shoulder. I have trained extensively with operation of vehicles therefore the armor on my left side is more substantial and the GPS navigator. the ODST chest is because I was embedded with a unit from the 105TH for 7 SpecOP missions, I have a great respect for them

bleedthrough is good with melees and BAD FOR BULLETS, this sprint double melee has happened WAY more then the AR charge EVER did in halo 3. i hate feeling helpless just because i choose to keep shooting, i feel like in OG reach i am punished for trying to shoot.

bloom needs to be gone. period. they then need to put a fixed fire rate on all the precision guns. like the pistols firing rate in halo 3.

in closing, OP you are WRONG. and if you think the game is truly better in it OG form, then good riddance.

oh and LOL at the OP and your TOD in FFA as MELEE! 16,000 of 70,000 kills and maybe if you would put the sword down you would understand why bleedthrought is FAR Superior then non. you dont even have a positive KD with the DMR! it is a first person SHOOTER! for Christs sake, man.



[Edited on 02.18.2012 10:09 AM PST]

  • 02.18.2012 9:47 AM PDT

Posted by: aBlueBookshelf
Goat was famous. Irie was infamous. Gh0st was FaMaS.

My stats in Halol 4

Typical Waypoint post.
no it's "its got to go" you wouldn't say the "it is got to go" would you?

OP Pulled a stat check?

Stat check me then.

GT HaloBeeKay.

I think you're an idiot and that you are crying because Sprint double melee doesn't work anymore.

  • 02.18.2012 10:09 AM PDT

I am from Mars, that is why I wear red and was issued the MJOLNIR Powered Assault Armor/M variant helmet, was also issued the experimental version of the Camo unit, that is why i have the Recon shoulder. I excel at CQB, hence the CQC shoulder. I have trained extensively with operation of vehicles therefore the armor on my left side is more substantial and the GPS navigator. the ODST chest is because I was embedded with a unit from the 105TH for 7 SpecOP missions, I have a great respect for them

Tru7h.


Posted by: Gh0st is Bad
I think you're an idiot and that you are crying because Sprint double melee doesn't work anymore.

  • 02.18.2012 10:10 AM PDT

Posted by: aBlueBookshelf
Goat was famous. Irie was infamous. Gh0st was FaMaS.

My stats in Halol 4

Typical Waypoint post.
no it's "its got to go" you wouldn't say the "it is got to go" would you?


Posted by: DARKSANITY0909
The funny thing i have been noticing on about ALL MLG reach threads is there all crying about it being a slow paced game... NO -blam!-! The slow paced gameplay is what entitles you to PACE YOUR MOTHER -blam!- SHOTS. And your crying that someone actually has the chance to run away when getting shot. If TU passes its honestly going to be just ANOTHER call of duty! EASY kills FAST paced games where no one THINKS they just shoot. Think about what your saying. Sincerely think DONT BRUSH THIS POST OFF YOUR SHOUDLERS. Think about all the aspects of TU and you WILL realize that its AWFUL halo reach used to reward the good players and punish the stupid. Well now all the good players and tactical players are just as good as the people that cant pace one shot. If TU passes you wont see me on anymore.
lol okay.

Bloom isn't "tactical." It's retarded and forces players of higher skill to fight like a flailing, autistic child.

And really? Bronze kids trying to tell me how to play? lolno.

  • 02.18.2012 10:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: I STOLE ur ATV
yeah cqc is essential for halo alright, more specifically reach. The bad players and derps who herp derp melee and fail to aim with precision weapons.


lol and you've never played Reach? get out of here.

  • 02.18.2012 11:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: Gh0st is Bad

Posted by: DARKSANITY0909
lol okay.

Bloom isn't "tactical." It's retarded and forces players of higher skill to fight like a flailing, autistic child.

And really? Bronze kids trying to tell me how to play? lolno.





I'm pretty experienced with this game and i'm just saying the TU update shouldn't be based around one weapon changing the whole system for close-quartered players. I have nothing against TU. I just think that ALL of vanilla Reach shouldn't be thrown away for a whole new concept of the game that doesn't feel like Reach anymore. I can adapt to it, I have for MLG, but I really prefer Vanilla Reach over 85%/0% Bloom in every playlist excluding MLG. It feels so much more exciting with vanilla Reach and now it seems more like it's only a Mid-Range and Long-Range game, because close-quarters is so ineffective.

  • 02.18.2012 11:29 AM PDT

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