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Subject: Are Elites really that great?..
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Spartans are not faster than brutes.

  • 02.22.2012 3:06 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: grey101
you do understand that was the entire point of their theme?

The covenant would be several times more stronger than man if they actually understood the technology and used it right. It was showing how a foolish religion blinded that race since they were the only ones to really believe it.

They were still stronger technologically though, and still failed in a number of ways. I don't think he is saying they failed because they did not innovate with their technology, but that they were incompetent with warfare in general. They should still have won with what they had, regardless if what they had was copied from other sources. Religious Dogma might prevent them from improving the efficiency of their shields, but I can't see how that extends to their tactics in war. Whatever the Covenant do, it is just not good enough. (Ablative tactics, usually. Keyes calls their naval tactics pathetically predictable) The Elites had to admit in CtfU that Human strategies and tactics were brilliant.

I also don't think the criticism of the Covenant's dogma and imitation is synonymous with the emphasis placed on Human ingenuity and creativity. Guilty Spark called Humanity's ascension remarkably swift in the Bestiary. It seems like the Covenant represents challenge in general, which Human ingenuity defeats.

[Edited on 02.22.2012 3:13 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2012 3:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: grey101
you do understand that was the entire point of their theme?

The covenant would be several times more stronger than man if they actually understood the technology and used it right. It was showing how a foolish religion blinded that race since they were the only ones to really believe it.

They were still stronger technologically though, and still failed in a number of ways. I don't think he is saying they failed because they did not innovate with their technology, but that they were incompetent with warfare in general. Religious Dogma might prevent them from improving the efficiency of their shields, but I can't see how that extends to their tactics in war. Whatever the Covenant do, it is just not good enough. (Ablative tactics, usually. Keyes calls their naval tactics pathetically predictable) The Elites had to admit in CtfU that Human strategies and tactics were brilliant.

I also don't think the criticism of the Covenant's dogma and imitation is synonymous with the emphasis placed on Human ingenuity and creativity. Guilty Spark called Humanity's ascension remarkably swift in the Bestiary. It seems like the Covenant represents challenge, which Human ingenuity defeats.


I was ignoring all the stuff we already know for that reason.
And it is because of that dogma they don't change tactics that they know aren't working because that would be "admiting" the foe is worth changing for. Hence why everybody got made when they acted somewhat smart in The game version reach.

  • 02.22.2012 3:13 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: grey101
And it is because of that dogma they don't change tactics that they know aren't working because that would be "admiting" the foe is worth changing for.

I haven't seen anything in the fiction that strongly points to this. The Elites are/were pragmatists to the best of their own abilities. I doubt they would knowingly allow themselves to fail repeatedly. In my time here it has more or less occurred to me that this is an excuse that fans have made for the Covenant.

  • 02.22.2012 3:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I guess i have fallen to that because i thought that was generally accepted.

  • 02.22.2012 3:25 PM PDT

Yeah the elites got pretty -blam!- over after CE.

  • 02.22.2012 3:25 PM PDT

New Marathon? Thanks Bungie!

H3 tarnished their reputation I think

  • 02.22.2012 8:23 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Mark V guy
Elites are equal to spartans, as shown in Halo 2 and 3 and Halo Reach shows that higher raking elites are even tougher than Spartans.

Brutes are superior to both in terms of strength, but the elites and Spartans are faster and more agile. Plus the games make out as though the brutes are weaker than Spartans when they are not


Brutes are faster than both...

  • 02.22.2012 8:37 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Mark V guy
Elites are equal to spartans, as shown in Halo 2 and 3 and Halo Reach shows that higher raking elites are even tougher than Spartans.

Brutes are superior to both in terms of strength, but the elites and Spartans are faster and more agile. Plus the games make out as though the brutes are weaker than Spartans when they are not


Brutes are faster than both...


Eh, I haven't seen any brutes that move faster than elites or spartans, save for be seeking halo 2 brutes

  • 02.23.2012 12:16 AM PDT

"Dude, what are you doing right now?"
"Uhh... Heh, my mom."
"Dude... What?"

Halo 2's elites were crazy awesome.

  • 02.23.2012 12:31 AM PDT

You know our motto, We deliver!

Elite are like the ancient Spartans in so many ways. But because of this they annoy me. They are this very advanced race, yet have this such simple and stubborn minded way of thinking. They are inteligent but they can't seem to think for themselves so much.

I get the impression that they have this incredible naivety when it comes to their beliefs or more likely, it seems they want/ need to believe in a divine cause so that they have a purpose in their life and have. They all want to be heroes. It would be like having a race full of testosterone- fuelled, alpha male stubborn men. It doesn't really work unless they have this sole military servitude like they do in the covenant.

That's what I think anyway. They are still cool and I like them. It's mainly due to their servitude as soldiers in the Covenant that brings out these traits. Which Glasslands picks up on.

  • 02.23.2012 2:21 AM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Mark V guy
Elites are equal to spartans, as shown in Halo 2 and 3 and Halo Reach shows that higher raking elites are even tougher than Spartans.

Brutes are superior to both in terms of strength, but the elites and Spartans are faster and more agile. Plus the games make out as though the brutes are weaker than Spartans when they are not


Brutes are faster than both...


Why dose everyone think that just because it was mentioned once (and I believe it wasn't even that clear it was in the shadows) by an author (books that have all types of faults in them) who only writes books for the game and isn't even part of bungie/343 that he knew that it would fit well with what we experience with Brutes in ALL the games. if we went by the books we'd be dealing with 10ft tall elites by now (reach and GoO) and other such things. Brutes are stronger: yes, but quicker they just ain't.

  • 02.23.2012 5:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

I love how you talk about things being mentioned once yet you bring up the that single part in GoO with the hologram being 10 feet tall. Eric even mentioned how the armor and pedestal would have added to the hieght.


What part in TFoR said elites where ten feet tall? I thought the size of the minor john fought was 8 feet (memory) not ten.

and brutes are far effing faster than any of them. That along with their strenght is the reason Spartans try engaging them from long range.

  • 02.23.2012 6:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

Yes, Elites really ARE that great.

  • 02.23.2012 8:20 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Alfdog

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Mark V guy
Elites are equal to spartans, as shown in Halo 2 and 3 and Halo Reach shows that higher raking elites are even tougher than Spartans.

Brutes are superior to both in terms of strength, but the elites and Spartans are faster and more agile. Plus the games make out as though the brutes are weaker than Spartans when they are not


Brutes are faster than both...


Why dose everyone think that just because it was mentioned once (and I believe it wasn't even that clear it was in the shadows) by an author (books that have all types of faults in them) who only writes books for the game and isn't even part of bungie/343 that he knew that it would fit well with what we experience with Brutes in ALL the games. if we went by the books we'd be dealing with 10ft tall elites by now (reach and GoO) and other such things. Brutes are stronger: yes, but quicker they just ain't.


Spartans have night vision though, so it doesn't matter if the Brute was in the shadows or not they would still see pretty clearly so the statement still remains. Nylund also served as the main contributor for the Halo novels from day one. Also, seeing how Bungie gave him the exact info to post on the novels, like the description of the races and everything, so if he says that Brutes can take an Assault at point blank range then it must be true.

Games obviously do not follow this as it would be nigh impossible for anybody to kill them, same with Spartans. I mean, if we went by canon in games, a Magnum wouldn't be able to kill a Spartan, let alone harm him.

  • 02.23.2012 1:17 PM PDT

...

you guys really need to get a life.... it's a game. yall are way too much into the halo games.

  • 02.24.2012 8:00 AM PDT

Oly Oly Oxen Free


Posted by: ronno20
you guys really need to get a life.... it's a game. yall are way too much into the halo games.


I think you took a wrong turn on your way here.

  • 02.24.2012 8:20 AM PDT

The Elites are bosses, just play uprising in halo 2, or The Covenant in 3

I am the voice of the covenant!!
YOU MUST BE SILENCED

  • 02.25.2012 11:52 AM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.


Posted by: ronno20
you guys really need to get a life.... it's a game. yall are way too much into the halo games.


So what? How does that have anything to do with you? I can assure you I do have a life, and i have an interest in the Halo universe

  • 02.25.2012 1:57 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101
I love how you talk about things being mentioned once yet you bring up the that single part in GoO with the hologram being 10 feet tall. Eric even mentioned how the armor and pedestal would have added to the hieght.


What part in TFoR said elites where ten feet tall? I thought the size of the minor john fought was 8 feet (memory) not ten.

and brutes are far effing faster than any of them. That along with their strenght is the reason Spartans try engaging them from long range.


You notice how he made these remarks after the book was released and gave some excuse about the amour being heightened. He knew he messed up. And the Elite was a metre taller than John. That would make that Elite over 10ft!

  • 02.25.2012 7:07 PM PDT


Posted by: ronno20
you guys really need to get a life.... it's a game. yall are way too much into the halo games.


FANBOIZ GUNNA B FANBOIZ!

  • 02.25.2012 7:09 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Alfdog

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Mark V guy
Elites are equal to spartans, as shown in Halo 2 and 3 and Halo Reach shows that higher raking elites are even tougher than Spartans.

Brutes are superior to both in terms of strength, but the elites and Spartans are faster and more agile. Plus the games make out as though the brutes are weaker than Spartans when they are not


Brutes are faster than both...


Why dose everyone think that just because it was mentioned once (and I believe it wasn't even that clear it was in the shadows) by an author (books that have all types of faults in them) who only writes books for the game and isn't even part of bungie/343 that he knew that it would fit well with what we experience with Brutes in ALL the games. if we went by the books we'd be dealing with 10ft tall elites by now (reach and GoO) and other such things. Brutes are stronger: yes, but quicker they just ain't.


Spartans have night vision though, so it doesn't matter if the Brute was in the shadows or not they would still see pretty clearly so the statement still remains. Nylund also served as the main contributor for the Halo novels from day one. Also, seeing how Bungie gave him the exact info to post on the novels, like the description of the races and everything, so if he says that Brutes can take an Assault at point blank range then it must be true.

Games obviously do not follow this as it would be nigh impossible for anybody to kill them, same with Spartans. I mean, if we went by canon in games, a Magnum wouldn't be able to kill a Spartan, let alone harm him.


I see your point, but at the end of the day his perception of halo will always be an outside one (that don't mean I disregard everything he has to write) and even though he has good info on the universe not everything he writes is going to sit well in what Halo is. Plus he's an author, he needs to make his stories exciting. I just don't see any proof of this faster attributes of Brutes in ANYTHING else in Halo.

  • 02.25.2012 7:14 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

I often wondered why the Elites weren't the chosen successors to the forerunners.

They're harder, better, faster and stronger. They aren't the typical daft punks we call humans.

  • 02.25.2012 7:18 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Alfdog
You notice how he made these remarks after the book was released and gave some excuse about the amour being heightened. He knew he messed up.

Well that's no surprise tbh. The first book "trilogy" has aged quite poorly since it was written. It was Nylund himself, for instance, who changed the date of when the Elites were first encountered in the war when he wrote Ghosts of Onyx.

  • 02.25.2012 7:19 PM PDT

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