Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: New characters?
  • Subject: New characters?
Subject: New characters?
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Maybe in multiplayer on Halo 3 u could be anything. It would be funny watching grunts run around trying to kill peeps.

  • 05.20.2006 2:55 PM PDT
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I think grunts should be allowed.

They should be quicker but with less health points.

  • 05.20.2006 2:57 PM PDT
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how about sheilded flood?

  • 05.20.2006 3:14 PM PDT

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Posted by: Gunchum
I think grunts should be allowed.

They should be quicker but with less health points.


Are you kidding? That's really silly.

  • 05.20.2006 3:18 PM PDT
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Nothing should be allowed except for:
Spartan
Elite
Flood Spartan?
ODST
Because you have to have it balanced with shields.

  • 05.20.2006 3:26 PM PDT
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thats a good point but i would love to be a hunter online...running into people with shields.

  • 05.20.2006 3:32 PM PDT

One of my Halo 3 montages.

i don't think you should be able to be anything. who would seriously pick a grunt? it would be totally unbalanced for multiplayer online and people would complain

  • 05.20.2006 5:11 PM PDT
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This topic already has a thread for it.

  • 05.20.2006 5:14 PM PDT
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maybe after thelast halo game is made bungie can make a game lke that with class based fightning ALA Battlefield, personally, i think it would be awesome....

  • 05.20.2006 5:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: Gunchum
I think grunts should be allowed.

They should be quicker but with less health points.


If Any grunt or bug or etc.. or sum silly character to be involved it should not be in the multiplayer as a human playing as one becuase halo aint no mockary game its kool not stupid! if they were to involve grunts etc.. in multiplayer they would do it in a survival with waves of enamies or sumit not like that. not haha hehe i am a perthetic grunt let me poke u to death!

  • 05.20.2006 5:49 PM PDT
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STOP MAKING THESE POST THERE IS LIKE A BIGILLION OF THEM YOU WILL FIND OUT ALL OF THIS WHEN THE GAME COMES OUT GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • 05.20.2006 5:51 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

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we have to be cortana or johnson....

Cortana becomes solid and can shoot a gun ect.

  • 05.20.2006 5:52 PM PDT
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Sure, playing as grunts and hunters would be fun... and so would firing a scarab gun at everyone else on the level, but we look down upon that because it's obviously u n b a l a n c e d.

However, the same concept applies here. I've said many times (even wrote out a few insanely long posts showing through pseudo-equations how it would ruin gameplay) but still, the masses turn a blind eye.

First, ask yourself why you want to be a character other than the chief. Most times, the reasons are:
-to be a grunt, and run around acting silly
-to be your "favorite" character, for no reason other than it being your favorite
-to have unique characteristics (flying with the sentinel, the hunter's fuel rod cannon, jackal's shield and speed, etc...)

Two of these reasons would result in short-term excitement, but once the initial excitement wore off and these things were accepted at "normal", it would seem just as dull as the spartan/elite choice we have now. Not to mention it would have a critical impact on gameplay... which brings me to my main point.

GAMEPLAY

Right now, as of Halo 2, we have two playable characters: the chief, and the elite. The chief is preferred over the elite due to a smaller head, which gives him a gameplay advantage. Now, keep in mind, this is after Bungie intentionally tried to balance them to be exactly equal.

They chose to [attempt to] make them equal for good reason. Adding different attributes to characters makes Halo a different game, case and point. And such a drastic change completely destroys the foundation on which Halo was built: Equality. Balance.

Let’s look at how such a change would “drastically” impact gameplay:

First off, discrepancy in models. It’s no secret that this is the reason Master Chief is the preferred model in Halo 2. The Elite’s head is larger, and is in front of its chest, making it an easier kill. This is only a minor detail compared to the differences between the grunt, jackal, hunter, brute, flood, sentinel, and any other character you can think of in the Halo universe. Do you honestly think these could be implemented into gameplay in an organized, balanced fashion? Compare the size of a grunt to a brute. It’s no huge leap of faith to tell who would have the advantage.

Secondly, discrepancies in the character’s backgrounds. Grunts don’t have rechargeable shields. Neither do brutes, hunters, (most) flood, jackals, and most other characters. Giving them these attributes doesn’t fall in line with the story, and really just doesn’t make sense.

Third, and most importantly, unique attributes. This is the hardest one to argue against. It’s hard to describe just exactly HOW different characters having different stats would ruin gameplay, but I think I’ve come to a decent conclusion.

Say you have, Chief, a Hunter, and a Grunt. You keep chief the same, you give the hunter all of its amazing attributes (but include the 1-shot-kill if hit in the orange area), and the Grunt, being small and quick, has that advantage going for him.

Let’s assume that bungie balanced these characters PERFECTLY. There is still the problem of equality. Halo is a competitive game, you can’t argue about that. But how can you judge who’s more skillful, when nobody is playing under the same rules? This is the simple way of putting it. Now for the hard stuff.

Let’s define skill. For the sake of this thread, I’m going to define skill as:

An advantage in a game based on prior experience instead of predetermined discrepancies in players.

I’d say that’s a pretty accurate description. Now, according to that alone, adding unique models takes away a majority of skill. But we can describe this in better detail aswell.

How does one attain skill? Simply by playing a game for an extended period of time, and developing reflex techniques against every situation. You know you are truly skilled in a certain aspect when you reflexively react and win consistently without needing to stop and think about what you’re going to do. Thinking goes into another category: strategy. Don’t get strategy and skill confused, they are completely different. Strategy is a plan of action, Skill is the ability to follow through with that plan, or even react without any strategy planned. When you can react without forming a strategy, that means you can react independently of the situation around you.

Now, one of the most notable stepping stones in skill is aim. Precise aiming comes instinctively, as you get used to the general height of your opponents and the situations you find them in most often. This is because of repetition… that’s where skill comes from. Now, if you change all the models around, so everyone is different, this obliterates the repetition that was formed in the game. No longer can you instinctively see things and react (no matter how “skilled” you are), because of the huge, random variety of things that could happen as a result. You could argue it would take more skill because things are unpredictable, and as a result it is a test of your reflexes. But this is not the case. Say you are getting shot from behind. You instinctively wheel around and fire 4 quick bursts, only to realize that you’ve aimed a full 2 feet above the grunt that’s coming after you. Obviously, from the time this reaction takes, you’re as good as dead. There’s no way of telling if that was a grunt or a brute. This randomness would actually deter skill.

And, it would turn Halo into a rock-paper-scissors game. Certain characters would have definite advantages over other characters, regardless of balance. While you may argue that this is good for team-oriented gameplay, Halo isn’t generally team-oriented in the first place. You shouldn’t have to rely on your team to help you all the time. Having certain classes beat certain other classes would lead the game into a trough of luck and randomness. You’re a jackal, and you turn a corner, boom, a hunter, the one enemy that has a weapon your shield can’t block. Oh boy, what now? Or, you’re a brute, you turn the corner, and get mowed down with an assault rifle in less than a second because you have no shields.

While this is just a fraction of my argument against multiple characters, it covers some of the main points. Hopefully, after reading this, you can make a better decision as to what is or isn’t a good addition to the game.

And always ask yourself, “Why fix what isn’t broken?”

-PK

  • 05.20.2006 5:53 PM PDT
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I say to stick with only MC and Elites because it wouldn't feel Halo like to play as a hunter or grunt, let alone flood. If Bungie allows this, then they are way overdoing Halo 3.

  • 05.20.2006 5:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: mred423
maybe after thelast halo game is made bungie can make a game lke that with class based fightning ALA Battlefield, personally, i think it would be awesome....


Year that aint bad! but not like unlock new wepons and that like use that method to be baised on your rank. altho they should still keep the rank method in halo2 aswell. BUT Keep an overall level NOT lvl 10 sniper lvl 30 Team slayer it pisses me of not really knowing who im up against in a match! i can only know when i check recent players after!

  • 05.20.2006 5:55 PM PDT