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  • Subject: What is wrong with you guys? (not directed toward the forum goers)
Subject: What is wrong with you guys? (not directed toward the forum goers)

-See you on the battle field.


Posted by: WebFootFreak


Posted by: Ron White
You can't fix stupid.


Well... I'm gonna try!

@ RC Clone and ThreeSixXero

Read the OP again... word for word until you understand what is missing...

Give up?

THERE IS NOT A DAMN THING ABOUT WHICH IS BETTER BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HE HAS!

Now, children. Mr Rogers (another marine!) wants to know if you can see the problem here.
-TU Swordbase vs. Vanilla Condemned
Is this a fair and balanced choice? HELL NO! That kiddies is the ENTIRE crux of the argument. This is what he (now we) are calling BS on. The choices should look like:
-TU SwordBase vs. Vanilla SwordBase
Now, if you think you're argument about "Vanilla shouldn't be a choice" holds water... IT DOESN'T. Because that is not the arguement. 343 in all their... whatever... decided to put it to a vote (yay!). 343 said that Vanilla would run primary for 2 weeks and TU for 2 weeks (yay! still balanced). Oh... we're going to mix up the maps though because that doesn't make a difference....

WOAHWOAHWOAH... BULL-blam!-!

I dare anyone... ANYONE... to effing dispute this and I will make you look like a grammar school flunkie... I PRAY that someone in the PNW has the balls to reply... c'mon 343... do it... I know for a fact you guys lurk the forums... defend yourself if you can..

Oh, and when I get home on the PC, I will be copying this to WayPoint and 343's forums.


AND IT'S WEBFOOTFREAK FOR THE WIN! GAME OVER! Thanks man. Once upon a time I was on the receiving end of your word smithing and that is not a good place to be.

  • 02.23.2012 3:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Lol. Webfoot is angry as hell.

  • 02.23.2012 3:59 PM PDT

/=\ncient \_|_/arriors


Posted by: RC Clone
Lol. Webfoot is angry as hell.


A bit :). That last was 95% to ThreeSixXero, BTW. I've explained it clearly multiple times, and still all he can say is "Vanilla should be gone already".

TU or Vanilla doesn't affect me at all since I am just that bad. But to have 343 play like they're doing us a favor by letting the playing population vote and decide by actual game choices is a move I applaud. The fact that the map choices aren't identical skews and taints (Hehehe just wanted to say "taint") the results because people, including me, will choose a preferred map over a preferred game type. Not 100% of the time, but even a 50/50 split screws it up

  • 02.23.2012 4:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

According to the laws of probability, the fact that on average, the main difference is always TU and default, individual games that had an unbalanced choice will average out and have no effect on the ending result.

  • 02.23.2012 4:19 PM PDT

☆☆☆Does anyone even read this?☆☆☆

||DeviantArt || File Share||

Posted by: snip3r dud33
Honestly, this is a good cover up for all the idiots who won't know its a cover up .

Is it bad that I immediately thought of this without reading the post?

[Edited on 02.23.2012 4:22 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2012 4:19 PM PDT

-See you on the battle field.


Posted by: NinStarRune
Is it bad that I immediately thought of this without reading the post?


Thats good. :)

  • 02.23.2012 4:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Corporal Love B

Posted by: WebFootFreak


Posted by: Ron White
You can't fix stupid.


Well... I'm gonna try!

@ RC Clone and ThreeSixXero

Read the OP again... word for word until you understand what is missing...

Give up?

THERE IS NOT A DAMN THING ABOUT WHICH IS BETTER BECAUSE THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE HE HAS!

Now, children. Mr Rogers (another marine!) wants to know if you can see the problem here.
-TU Swordbase vs. Vanilla Condemned
Is this a fair and balanced choice? HELL NO! That kiddies is the ENTIRE crux of the argument. This is what he (now we) are calling BS on. The choices should look like:
-TU SwordBase vs. Vanilla SwordBase
Now, if you think you're argument about "Vanilla shouldn't be a choice" holds water... IT DOESN'T. Because that is not the arguement. 343 in all their... whatever... decided to put it to a vote (yay!). 343 said that Vanilla would run primary for 2 weeks and TU for 2 weeks (yay! still balanced). Oh... we're going to mix up the maps though because that doesn't make a difference....

WOAHWOAHWOAH... BULL-blam!-!

I dare anyone... ANYONE... to effing dispute this and I will make you look like a grammar school flunkie... I PRAY that someone in the PNW has the balls to reply... c'mon 343... do it... I know for a fact you guys lurk the forums... defend yourself if you can..

Oh, and when I get home on the PC, I will be copying this to WayPoint and 343's forums.


AND IT'S WEBFOOTFREAK FOR THE WIN! GAME OVER! Thanks man. Once upon a time I was on the receiving end of your word smithing and that is not a good place to be.


Nice D riding man.

Take that -blam!- to skype or something, where you guys can d ride each other some more.

  • 02.23.2012 4:21 PM PDT

-See you on the battle field.

@Bloodedge

Was that necessary at all? We are in a group together and a little support towards one another is not a bad thing. I feel sad for you because you can't grasp that concept and must be a lonely person.

  • 02.23.2012 4:25 PM PDT


Posted by: RC Clone
According to the laws of probability, the fact that on average, the main difference is always TU and default, individual games that had an unbalanced choice will average out and have no effect on the ending result.


Actually TS and TU being choices are the constant in their "experiment", as they chose to call this fiasco in the announcement. The fact that the maps are different does add a great variable to the equation and he's right to point this out.

If you, RC Clone, and I are voting at the same time we both know the vote will be split. The ones voting maps however make beg the question, how often is this or that map being put up for TU vs. TS? Not to mention that the amount of people voting only TS or TU or the ones voting their favorite maps are all on voting at different times and the numbers of people in those three groups alone will vary greatly also.

Really 343 what sadistic game are you trying to play with your fans?

[Edited on 02.23.2012 4:34 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2012 4:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Oh wait never mind.

After hundreds of thousands of matches being played I'm sure the deciding factor will be the few uneven choices and they definitely won't just cancel each other out in the end.

  • 02.23.2012 4:57 PM PDT


Posted by: Corporal Love B
@ThreeSixXero

Ultimately, after it was pointed out to you, yes I suppose your right. The fact remains, you have yet to understand the original post. Therefore I do not need any more "legitimate" arguments. You fail sir. You should really stop before you embarrass yourself further.

I also predicted that you would say that I edited it after you pointed it out to me and I therefore told you to check the time stamp. But of course, you continue to not give a credible argument, instead, look to other people to argue your point for you.

[Edited on 02.23.2012 5:09 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2012 5:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Add Hagbar to the list ThreeSix.

  • 02.23.2012 5:04 PM PDT


Posted by: RC Clone
Add Hagbar to the list ThreeSix.

Meh, I need more examples.

  • 02.23.2012 5:08 PM PDT

/=\ncient \_|_/arriors


Posted by: RC Clone
According to the laws of probability, the fact that on average, the main difference is always TU and default, individual games that had an unbalanced choice will average out and have no effect on the ending result.


I must respectfully disagree with this. Of course the laws of probability are fracticious at best, but in order for everything to balance out correctly as much random probability has to be removed from the equation as possible.

Allow me to expand a bit. Say you start off with my example earlier: TU SwordBase v Vanilla Condemned. If the same 8 players stick around for the next match (and the losing team rarely does), then a TU Comdemned v Vanilla SwordBase would indeed balance the equation. However, when that choice finally rolls around I would be 95% certain that none of the original 8 would be offered that exact opposite choice. That, unfortunately is where the data is scattered like our shotgun sniping friend, Emile.

The only way I can see (and I am always open to alternate ideas) to accurately do what 343 says they're doing is to list TU maps v the exact Vanilla maps to get a true reading on what the playing community wants

  • 02.23.2012 5:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.


Posted by: ThreeSixXero

Posted by: RC Clone
Add Hagbar to the list ThreeSix.

Meh, I need more examples.

Look at his Reach forum posts. Everything in there is retarded.

  • 02.23.2012 5:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

Posted by: WebFootFreak

Posted by: RC Clone
According to the laws of probability, the fact that on average, the main difference is always TU and default, individual games that had an unbalanced choice will average out and have no effect on the ending result.


I must respectfully disagree with this. Of course the laws of probability are fracticious at best, but in order for everything to balance out correctly as much random probability has to be removed from the equation as possible.

Allow me to expand a bit. Say you start off with my example earlier: TU SwordBase v Vanilla Condemned. If the same 8 players stick around for the next match (and the losing team rarely does), then a TU Comdemned v Vanilla SwordBase would indeed balance the equation. However, when that choice finally rolls around I would be 95% certain that none of the original 8 would be offered that exact opposite choice. That, unfortunately is where the data is scattered like our shotgun sniping friend, Emile.

The only way I can see (and I am always open to alternate ideas) to accurately do what 343 says they're doing is to list TU maps v the exact Vanilla maps to get a true reading on what the playing community wants

You don't know anything about probability if you think a two game example disproves what I said.

Everything averages out on the scale of hundreds of thousands of games. You know, the scale of the data they are actually collecting. A few imbalanced choices won't skew that.

[Edited on 02.23.2012 5:29 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2012 5:15 PM PDT

lolClans.. Oh wait, maybe theres something there.

I completley see where you guys are coming from, the only "noticable/good" thing within the TU is the AL nerf, but no grenuke nerf or anything.. anyway.

The options should definitely be TU Swordbase or Vanilla Swordbase, but there IS something you can do about it!

lolClans? Maybe, but gather a few friends and you can try and get the majority of the vote. Even if you don't like it, Vanilla on say, powerhouse beats TU on Pinacle right?

Tell me if i'm wrong, which I know is coming right off, but at least i've tried.

  • 02.23.2012 5:21 PM PDT


Posted by: WebFootFreak

Posted by: RC Clone
Lol. Webfoot is angry as hell.


A bit :). That last was 95% to ThreeSixXero, BTW. I've explained it clearly multiple times, and still all he can say is "Vanilla should be gone already".

I'm arguing against his point. He was calling for additional playlists and put down what I interpreted at the time to be two random gametypes. You, however, actually made the point intended.

Posted by: Corporal Love B
I don't dislike the TU I just don't understand why they can't be fair about it. Here is an example, you can either vote for TU DMR on Sword base -OR- Elite slayer on Power House. Honestly people what do you think is gonna get picked? And don't even try to vote none of the above because the selections get even worse. In my opinion the TU should have is own play list.

To qualify this, look at this paragraph. He never once specifically says that the faults are within the gametype versus the map choice. He lists two very different gametypes when his actual comparison should be TU DMRs on Powerhouse versus Slayer DMRs on Sword base (because that would be stacking the options). He then proceeds to state that TU should receive its own playlist to promote the fairness he says is not present, referenced in the first sentence, which is what I was mainly arguing against. He also does not reference what 343i is doing with Team Slayer currently to be what is unfair, so therefore I assumed he meant generally in matchmaking, where the TU is, mostly, the primary/primarily voted option.

I'll admit that I misinterpreted what he said at first, but a lot of my first argument was devoted to why dividing up the options via separating playlists is a bad idea and why TU is the better choice focus, ultimately, and then stated that TU is the primary, or primarily voted for, option.

Any "Vanilla shouldn't even be in matchmaking" clause was used in qualifying my argument that TU is the best focus choice for matchmaking.

[Edited on 02.23.2012 5:28 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2012 5:25 PM PDT

/=\ncient \_|_/arriors

Posted by: RC Clone
You don't know anything about probability if you think a two game example disproves what I said.

Everything averages out on the scale of hundreds of thousands of games. You know, the scale of the data they are actually collecting. A few imbalanced choices won't skew that.


Oh, I am quite well read, however I am not stating that I am a student of the laws of probability. All i can state is my perception of what I have experienced.

That being the case, I am not truly using a 2 game example. I am using an 8 player example (yeah, still small but hear me out). If the same 8 players vote on both sets, then it appears to be balanced. What I'm saying is that by the time the inverse option comes up everything is different. Of course, the 8 new players (and all their quirks), as well as the time of day (which alters the players as well). it just seems so... well drop a gallon of paint out of a tree... that's what it appears to be without even choices.

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
I'm arguing against his point. He was calling for additional playlists and put down what I interpreted at the time to be two random gametypes. You, however, actually made the point intended.


*chuckle* and I never agreed with the multiple playlist idea... because I don't.

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
Any "Vanilla shouldn't even be in matchmaking" clause was used in qualifying my argument that TU is the best focus choice for matchmaking.


Well, that falls under opinion and should never have been used as an arguement. Nothing against opinion, because the point of view B and I are arguing is based on our point of view. However a flat statement which has the feel of something presented as fact and being unyielding about it.

  • 02.23.2012 6:02 PM PDT


Posted by: WebFootFreak
Posted by: ThreeSixXero
I'm arguing against his point. He was calling for additional playlists and put down what I interpreted at the time to be two random gametypes. You, however, actually made the point intended.


*chuckle* and I never agreed with the multiple playlist idea... because I don't.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. His intention of referencing the two voting options was to show that the voting options were "unfair." While you both offered differing solutions to such, you actually made the intended point of presenting a solution that would work, while his solution does not.

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
Any "Vanilla shouldn't even be in matchmaking" clause was used in qualifying my argument that TU is the best focus choice for matchmaking.


Well, that falls under opinion and should never have been used as an arguement. Nothing against opinion, because the point of view B and I are arguing is based on our point of view. However a flat statement which has the feel of something presented as fact and being unyielding about it.

It is a fact that 85% is more consistent and, based on studies like this one, functions better than the original 100%. Changes like allowing Armor Lock to be "damaged," bleedthrough on the headshot (melee is the controversial issue at the moment) and elimination of Sword Block all benefit the game (Armor Lock can now be countered to an extent, while it still achieved its purpose, bleedthrough allows team shooting to be more effective and promotes making headshots, and the ridding Sword Block helps make the Sword more effective and not completely overshadowed by the Shotgun).

It is, therefore, superior to what Reach was, and, while certain tweaks must surely be made, Reach is now better off as a result and these changes should be the focus of gameplay options.

  • 02.23.2012 6:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

That scale is still far to small.

The fact of the matter is there is a random probablistic chance of the exact gametype that comes up along with the exact map that comes up.

The only thing in control and being recorded is how many times TU gets voted and how may times Default gets voted.


On the scale of hundreds of thousands the randomly "unfair" choices are statistically insignificant because they will happen in favor of both sides and cancel out.

  • 02.23.2012 6:30 PM PDT

/=\ncient \_|_/arriors


Posted by: ThreeSixXero

Posted by: WebFootFreak
Posted by: ThreeSixXero
I'm arguing against his point. He was calling for additional playlists and put down what I interpreted at the time to be two random gametypes. You, however, actually made the point intended.


*chuckle* and I never agreed with the multiple playlist idea... because I don't.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. His intention of referencing the two voting options was to show that the voting options were "unfair." While you both offered differing solutions to such, you actually made the intended point of presenting a solution that would work, while his solution does not.

Posted by: ThreeSixXero
Any "Vanilla shouldn't even be in matchmaking" clause was used in qualifying my argument that TU is the best focus choice for matchmaking.


Well, that falls under opinion and should never have been used as an arguement. Nothing against opinion, because the point of view B and I are arguing is based on our point of view. However a flat statement which has the feel of something presented as fact and being unyielding about it.

It is a fact that 85% is more consistent and, based on studies like this one, functions better than the original 100%. Changes like allowing Armor Lock to be "damaged," bleedthrough on the headshot (melee is the controversial issue at the moment) and elimination of Sword Block all benefit the game (Armor Lock can now be countered to an extent, while it still achieved its purpose, bleedthrough allows team shooting to be more effective and promotes making headshots, and the ridding Sword Block helps make the Sword more effective and not completely overshadowed by the Shotgun).

It is, therefore, superior to what Reach was, and, while certain tweaks must surely be made, Reach is now better off as a result and these changes should be the focus of gameplay options.


the numbers may calculate it to be better, but the players are not limited to hard numbers. It all comes down to what is liked. There are those that hail the TU as the savior of gameplay. A valid point of view. There are those that prefer Vanilla. For some reason, the changes make these people worse. BTW, I'm not talking about those that exploited the system either. There are also those that really don't care because the TU doesn't affect the way they play (I'm in this group btw). The thing is, there is no way to tell how many belong to each group.

Therefore, it is your OPINION that it is better. Yes, the numbers say it, but it FEELS better. It is other's OPINION that it is worse, because even though the number say it's better, it FEELS worse.

  • 02.23.2012 8:34 PM PDT

/=\ncient \_|_/arriors


Posted by: RC Clone
That scale is still far to small.

The fact of the matter is there is a random probablistic chance of the exact gametype that comes up along with the exact map that comes up.

The only thing in control and being recorded is how many times TU gets voted and how may times Default gets voted.


On the scale of hundreds of thousands the randomly "unfair" choices are statistically insignificant because they will happen in favor of both sides and cancel out.


okay, give me the statistics. How many thousands of games will it take to "even the scale". That number is simply so astronomically high, that a single month of game data has no possible way of cancelling out. The more games that are played, the more it will level, granted. However, the more choices presented will exponentially increase the data required to cancel out. Throw in the number of people wanting different things (I hate map X, I want DMRs, I want TU, I hate TU) and that magic number moves farther away.

Take PowerBall. I have a friend who is determined to crack the game and win. He's compiled the numbers from the last 27 months, and out of all of that crap, he's come up with a few numbers that seem to hit a lot, and a few numbers that you almost never see... that's pure random (supposedly) number drawing, and in over 2 years it's no where near levelling out...

343i should have taken that last step of randomness out of the Slayer voting. period.

  • 02.23.2012 8:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
RC RuNz the internet. Like the superintendent.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
Clone is an internet God.

Posted by: DerpRoids
RC Clone is the anti-thesis of a lurker.

I just told you this based on the laws of probability.

The map and gametype combinations are determined independently of other choices. I don't need to have numbers to back this up. That is just how it works.

If you understood probability you would understand that.

  • 02.23.2012 8:57 PM PDT
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Bringing in Fikst. Bringing back lmao.
Inheritor # 475 world,

#6 In the Country.

Halocharts.com

This is retarded everyone shut up.

  • 02.23.2012 8:59 PM PDT