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This topic has moved here: Subject: I hope the insurrection wins in the end.
  • Subject: I hope the insurrection wins in the end.
Subject: I hope the insurrection wins in the end.

Seriously, hundreds of planets controlled by one government is just bad in my opinion. I hope humans stay loyal to each-other, but not through one government.


How about the UNSC just controls earth and the inner colonies, and the rest can get independence if they choose.

  • 02.25.2012 1:39 PM PDT

It is physically impossible for a divided world with many nations to cooporate. Just watch the news and you'll see what I mean.

  • 02.25.2012 2:07 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
It is physically impossible for a divided world with many nations to cooporate. Just watch the news and you'll see what I mean.
This isn't a world. this is a universe. Each planet is literally it's own world. And besides, only the very outer colonies would form their own nations. The middle colonies would stay with the UEG.

  • 02.25.2012 2:10 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Then the outer colonies would form a new empire that would try to take over the UNSC, provoking an inter-stellar war between the humans. Overall that would cause even more trouble and death.

It's human nature, they will try to be the ones on power even if that means getting rid of their competition by killing millions of innocents.

  • 02.25.2012 2:12 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I recently bought the Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov and even though there are huge differences between that universe and Halo, I can't help but think that if Earth's colonies had become independent much like the Empire's did in Foundation, for a lack of better words, the Yoink! would've hit the fan.

In Foundation, the Empire encompassed over 2 MILLION worlds. The UEG has a lot less, but I think that would make it worse. The Empire was so huge that when it finally started to collapse, it's worlds broke away only hurting the Empire more and creating a whole new Dark Age in the process with galaxy wide barbarism.

Consider the Halo situation now. Earth and the Inner Colonies were relatively peaceful, it was the Outer Colonies causing trouble. Now let's say instead of resisting, the UEG gave the worlds that wanted independence their own freedom. Would that be the end of it? No. Say all they wanted was freedom, but human nature has shown what happens when newly independent states get their freedom, they expand. What did the American colonies do when they finally became free? They eventually conquered all of the present day Untied States and a bit beyond to. What happened when Rome collapsed? New nations formed and they eventually sought more and more land.

Wouldn't the newly independent planets do the same? If they hate the UEG, they may not have trade agreements with them. Take this scenario, say you have a ship renowned for it's metal deposits and was a a huge ship maker, yet relied on imported food. We now have a world that can build a navy and sack another world, maybe independent or part of the UEG still, for precious resources. Bam, you still have war regardless. Can you also imagine how treaties and alliances would work out? WWI was as bad as it was thanks to the alliance system that got so many nations involved. Span that galaxy wide now and you might have galactic war. Eventually the UNSC would have to be involved and we are back to where we started.

Then take human planets at war and imagine what would happen when the Covenant arrived. Everyone would be separated and divided and the Covenant would have no solid opposition outside of the UNSC, but without the insurrection, no Spartans would've been made. Bye-bye human race.

And we now see what to expect from independent worlds, Venezia. They attacked a crippled UNSC ship asking for help. Just want freedom my -Yoink!-. Frankly, if Venezia is a trend and not an isolated incident and colonies have declared independence and are arming themselves, much like the Empire, the UEG and UNSC may collapse entirely.

(Reposted from Waypoint)

  • 02.25.2012 2:47 PM PDT

"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I recently bought the Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov and even though there are huge differences between that universe and Halo, I can't help but think that if Earth's colonies had become independent much like the Empire's did in Foundation, for a lack of better words, the Yoink! would've hit the fan.

In Foundation, the Empire encompassed over 2 MILLION worlds. The UEG has a lot less, but I think that would make it worse. The Empire was so huge that when it finally started to collapse, it's worlds broke away only hurting the Empire more and creating a whole new Dark Age in the process with galaxy wide barbarism.

Consider the Halo situation now. Earth and the Inner Colonies were relatively peaceful, it was the Outer Colonies causing trouble. Now let's say instead of resisting, the UEG gave the worlds that wanted independence their own freedom. Would that be the end of it? No. Say all they wanted was freedom, but human nature has shown what happens when newly independent states get their freedom, they expand. What did the American colonies do when they finally became free? They eventually conquered all of the present day Untied States and a bit beyond to. What happened when Rome collapsed? New nations formed and they eventually sought more and more land.

Wouldn't the newly independent planets do the same? If they hate the UEG, they may not have trade agreements with them. Take this scenario, say you have a ship renowned for it's metal deposits and was a a huge ship maker, yet relied on imported food. We now have a world that can build a navy and sack another world, maybe independent or part of the UEG still, for precious resources. Bam, you still have war regardless. Can you also imagine how treaties and alliances would work out? WWI was as bad as it was thanks to the alliance system that got so many nations involved. Span that galaxy wide now and you might have galactic war. Eventually the UNSC would have to be involved and we are back to where we started.

Then take human planets at war and imagine what would happen when the Covenant arrived. Everyone would be separated and divided and the Covenant would have no solid opposition outside of the UNSC, but without the insurrection, no Spartans would've been made. Bye-bye human race.

And we now see what to expect from independent worlds, Venezia. They attacked a crippled UNSC ship asking for help. Just want freedom my -Yoink!-. Frankly, if Venezia is a trend and not an isolated incident and colonies have declared independence and are arming themselves, much like the Empire, the UEG and UNSC may collapse entirely.

(Reposted from Waypoint)
This. Currently, The UNSC are doing whatever they can to stay united. Just like The US did back in The Civil War.

  • 02.25.2012 2:57 PM PDT


Posted by: johnthethird

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
It is physically impossible for a divided world with many nations to cooporate. Just watch the news and you'll see what I mean.
This isn't a world. this is a universe. Each planet is literally it's own world. And besides, only the very outer colonies would form their own nations. The middle colonies would stay with the UEG.


Same principle. Think of each planet as a nation.

  • 02.25.2012 3:44 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Humanity would be easy pickings for outsiders (Who know what they are doing unlike the Covenant. The UNSC got lucky with the Covenant being a bit dim and imitative) without a centralized military and government.

Colonies would start competing with each other for territory and resources. No (Or lessened) co-operation would mean that the sum total of Humanity's military might may even be weaker than what it would have been had there been a central authority to oversee and pool Humanity's resources together. The Covenant was able to build hundreds of multi-kilometer long ships. However, if each colony is essentially on its own and has only the resources and workforce* of its own world to rely upon, then do you think that they would be able to have many ships like that? I mean Frigates, despite being relatively cheap, were completely useless in the war. Covenant ships could take 4 of them on and still have a good chance of winning.

(*The workforce of these worlds is, post Halo 3, only in the hundreds of millions. So that means that Humanity is divided up into a set of economically weaker states as well. How much development of advanced technologies could they then achieve? Much, much less than the UNSC as a whole I'm sure.)

Suppose that they are attacked by outsiders. Will there be some set of protocols that are applied across all of Human space? (Would the Cole Protocol be some sort of law that transcends a colony's sovereignty? If not, then that puts all other colonies at risk because of one administration refusing to accept it and being careless with their NAV cores. So if it is to be enforced, then who would enforce it across each colony and how? What if one government absolutely refuses to have their sovereignty violated by Earth? The last thing that would be needed is to have a stubborn-ass state like North Korea when it would mean the enemy finds the location of every single last Human world). What about coordinating a defense against an enemy that can easily out-class each of the little sovereign states on their own? They would have to unite, and waste time trying to establish a centralized command and a set of fleet wide protocols.

That is as far as I understand things anyway. Humanity would be weaker. Doesn't help that there is a bad history between some of the colonies and Earth either. So just imagine Humanity wasting time and money and resources fighting each other and weakening themselves rather than strengthening for the next hostile alien race that decides to try its luck with the Human race.

That is without complicating it with additional story stuff that is in Halo, like Humanity's role of Reclaimer and the Mantle.

[Edited on 02.25.2012 3:47 PM PST]

  • 02.25.2012 3:44 PM PDT

yas334229812

I would support one government but more independence of choice for outer colonies.

I also believe for some reason earth in modern day also needs a signified government.

  • 02.25.2012 3:49 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

The insurrectionist are terrorist in the Halo universe.

However noble their cause, killing civilians just to raise awareness is absolutely unacceptable.

This isn't a Watchmen situation of sacrificing millions to save billions. It was just [IIFC from souces such as Reach's Halsey Journal] nuking people just to show they're a threat to the UNSC.

If they're willing to go to those lengths, espicially given the circumstances at that point in time [Fighting the Covenant whose intent was Human genocide] than they're not only screwing themselves they're holding back humanities only real effort at surviving.


Idiots, OP, you're hoping the idiots win.

[Edited on 02.25.2012 5:36 PM PST]

  • 02.25.2012 5:35 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
I recently bought the Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov and even though there are huge differences between that universe and Halo, I can't help but think that if Earth's colonies had become independent much like the Empire's did in Foundation, for a lack of better words, the Yoink! would've hit the fan.

In Foundation, the Empire encompassed over 2 MILLION worlds. The UEG has a lot less, but I think that would make it worse. The Empire was so huge that when it finally started to collapse, it's worlds broke away only hurting the Empire more and creating a whole new Dark Age in the process with galaxy wide barbarism.

Consider the Halo situation now. Earth and the Inner Colonies were relatively peaceful, it was the Outer Colonies causing trouble. Now let's say instead of resisting, the UEG gave the worlds that wanted independence their own freedom. Would that be the end of it? No. Say all they wanted was freedom, but human nature has shown what happens when newly independent states get their freedom, they expand. What did the American colonies do when they finally became free? They eventually conquered all of the present day Untied States and a bit beyond to. What happened when Rome collapsed? New nations formed and they eventually sought more and more land.

Wouldn't the newly independent planets do the same? If they hate the UEG, they may not have trade agreements with them. Take this scenario, say you have a ship renowned for it's metal deposits and was a a huge ship maker, yet relied on imported food. We now have a world that can build a navy and sack another world, maybe independent or part of the UEG still, for precious resources. Bam, you still have war regardless. Can you also imagine how treaties and alliances would work out? WWI was as bad as it was thanks to the alliance system that got so many nations involved. Span that galaxy wide now and you might have galactic war. Eventually the UNSC would have to be involved and we are back to where we started.

Then take human planets at war and imagine what would happen when the Covenant arrived. Everyone would be separated and divided and the Covenant would have no solid opposition outside of the UNSC, but without the insurrection, no Spartans would've been made. Bye-bye human race.

And we now see what to expect from independent worlds, Venezia. They attacked a crippled UNSC ship asking for help. Just want freedom my -Yoink!-. Frankly, if Venezia is a trend and not an isolated incident and colonies have declared independence and are arming themselves, much like the Empire, the UEG and UNSC may collapse entirely.

(Reposted from Waypoint)
I saw that book in barns and noble classics. Is it good? I can't decide weather to get that or to get the HP Lovecraft book.




also, That may happen, but people have not taken over an entire galaxy yet in halo. They barely took over one arm of it. Now that the war with the covies is over, the outer colonies have no way to attack earth and the inner colonies, but instead would try expanding outward away from earth. And eventually, as more and more colonies are made, the UNSC wouldn't be able to manage all their colonies and eventually, lots of colonies would begin to ignore them completely.

The UEG is like a balloon. Slowly getting larger until it pops. Wouldn't it be better if we just let a little air out at a time?

[Edited on 02.25.2012 5:56 PM PST]

  • 02.25.2012 5:47 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: johnthethird

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
It is physically impossible for a divided world with many nations to cooporate. Just watch the news and you'll see what I mean.
This isn't a world. this is a universe. Each planet is literally it's own world. And besides, only the very outer colonies would form their own nations. The middle colonies would stay with the UEG.


Same principle. Think of each planet as a nation.
But the difference is that since nobody is sharing a planet with another colony, there wouldn't be as many wars over resources.

  • 02.25.2012 5:49 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: johnthethird

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: johnthethird

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
It is physically impossible for a divided world with many nations to cooporate. Just watch the news and you'll see what I mean.
This isn't a world. this is a universe. Each planet is literally it's own world. And besides, only the very outer colonies would form their own nations. The middle colonies would stay with the UEG.


Same principle. Think of each planet as a nation.
But the difference is that since nobody is sharing a planet with another colony, there wouldn't be as many wars over resources.

Still same principal just on a larger scale.

"there wouldn't be as many wars over resources."

This is suggesting the quantity of wars. Nevertheless, War would still be present thus it's irrelevant.

[Edited on 02.25.2012 5:57 PM PST]

  • 02.25.2012 5:57 PM PDT