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Subject: Harassment in the Gaming Community (Specifically Bungie)

I don't know how many of you have been following the craziness in the Fighting Game Community, if you haven't, Read This

I feel that the gaming community(and Bungie) as a whole would benefit from a discussion of the topics in the article.

What do you think? Does harassment and trash-talking have a place in the community? How should these issues be addressed if at all?

[Edited on 02.29.2012 11:29 AM PST]

  • 02.29.2012 11:28 AM PDT

Ohhh, I misunderstood the OP. He worded it oddly for me. I do not think it has a place here, trash talking is really for friends only because they won't get insulted. On the internet the person reading doesn't know how you are saying it, because you know, he or she can't hear you. So no it does not belong here.

[Edited on 02.29.2012 12:13 PM PST]

  • 02.29.2012 11:30 AM PDT
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Trying something once will increace your chances of success, because you tried it. Try someting twice, and your chances increase yet again - seeing as you've done it. Try something a few thousand times, and your chances of success is exponentially increased; this increase would likely provide success every time

I can't see the article, it may be just because I'm on my mobile - anyway....
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
What do you think? Does harassment and trash-talking have a place in the community? How should these issues be addressed if at all?

Trash-talking and gaming go hand into hand, and some confuse it with harassment. Either way, I say it's our own responsibility to get passed it. Harassment? Block/Ignore them, it's why most things have that feature. Trash-talking? Wait till the next game, or even the following game.

Edit: @Carolina, of course it is - we're a part of it.

[Edited on 02.29.2012 11:34 AM PST]

  • 02.29.2012 11:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: Primum Agmen
A tosser is the same as a wanker. To toss oneself off is to fondle the trouser weasel.


Achronos

Joe Staten

I really couldn't read that, the font looks weird and they all just seem to be poo poo heads.

  • 02.29.2012 11:34 AM PDT

We’re flawed because we want so much more. We’re ruined because we get these things and wish for what we had.

What do you think? Does harassment and trash-talking have a place in the community? How should these issues be addressed if at all?
Yes and no.
It's entirely situational

I honestly think it's the lack of sportsmanship that the gaming community has as a hole.

[Edited on 02.29.2012 11:39 AM PST]

  • 02.29.2012 11:39 AM PDT


Posted by: Rokit
I can't see the article, it may be just because I'm on my mobile - anyway....
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
What do you think? Does harassment and trash-talking have a place in the community? How should these issues be addressed if at all?

Trash-talking and gaming go hand into hand, and some confuse it with harassment. Either way, I say it's our own responsibility to get passed it. Harassment? Block/Ignore them, it's why most things have that feature. Trash-talking? Wait till the next game, or even the following game.

Edit: @Carolina, of course it is - we're a part of it.


Do you think that harassment might lead to alienation of potential community members (ie. I don't play Halo because all the players trash-talk and scream racial slurs)? Don't the women of the community deserve better equality than being constantly asked about their -blam!- habits, bra size, or being threatened with -blam!- assault?

  • 02.29.2012 11:39 AM PDT

There may not be a "I" in team, but there is a "I" in Win.

harassment, no. But most people confuse the two. Trash talking is a part of gaming and a part of life.

  • 02.29.2012 11:40 AM PDT


Posted by: snake kills you
harassment, no. But most people confuse the two. Trash talking is a part of gaming and a part of life.

So where is the line between trash-talking and harassment?

  • 02.29.2012 11:42 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: Rokitz
  • user homepage:

Want to know more about me? Check out my Community Joes interview.

Trying something once will increace your chances of success, because you tried it. Try someting twice, and your chances increase yet again - seeing as you've done it. Try something a few thousand times, and your chances of success is exponentially increased; this increase would likely provide success every time

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
Posted by: Rokit
I can't see the article, it may be just because I'm on my mobile - anyway....
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
What do you think? Does harassment and trash-talking have a place in the community? How should these issues be addressed if at all?

Trash-talking and gaming go hand into hand, and some confuse it with harassment. Either way, I say it's our own responsibility to get passed it. Harassment? Block/Ignore them, it's why most things have that feature. Trash-talking? Wait till the next game, or even the following game.

Edit: @Carolina, of course it is - we're a part of it.


Do you think that harassment might lead to alienation of potential community members (ie. I don't play Halo because all the players trash-talk and scream racial slurs)? Don't the women of the community deserve better equality than being constantly asked about their -blam!- habits, bra size, or being threatened with -blam!- assault?

Oh absolutely, will it ever not happen? No. Gamers are, generally, immature loud mouths that have no idea when to shut their trap. Which, again, is why we have the tools at our own disposal to "take care" of someone we find crude, vulgar, untasteful, etc.

It's our responsibility to make the games we play enjoyable. Of course you could never get rid of the 1%, but gamers can help themselves so that 1% seems more like a 1/2%.

  • 02.29.2012 11:50 AM PDT

Posted by: LongMasterWolf
So where is the line between trash-talking and harassment?

Certainly. The line exists within you, as the player.

Trash talking among friends is harmless. You can throw a verbal taunt intended to ignite their competitive spirit or provoke them to make a mistake. With the right sense of humor, you can even accomplish this with opponents that you encounter in matchmaking.

Harrassment occurs when those comments stop being part of a healthy rivaly, and start being a means of making someone feel bad about themselves. Use whatever words you want: shaming, griefing. At that point, you stop being a worthy opponent, and enter the realm of the bully or the sore loser.

The clan that I always played Halo (and other games) with assigned a great deal of value to the notion of sportsmanship. I will not claim that we were always perfect, but we always entered a game with the best of intentions. If we won, we afforded our opponents their dignity. If we lost, we admired the success of the victor - assuming they conducted themselves in a manner that was deserving of our respect.

Sorry for the long post. This topic is near and dear.

  • 02.29.2012 12:01 PM PDT

I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.

umad?
Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
So where is the line between trash-talking and harassment?

Certainly. The line exists within you, as the player.

Trash talking among friends is harmless. You can throw a verbal taunt intended to ignite their competitive spirit or provoke them to make a mistake. With the right sense of humor, you can even accomplish this with opponents that you encounter in matchmaking.

Harrassment occurs when those comments stop being part of a healthy rivaly, and start being a means of making someone feel bad about themselves. Use whatever words you want: shaming, griefing. At that point, you stop being a worthy opponent, and enter the realm of the bully or the sore loser.

The clan that I always played Halo (and other games) with assigned a great deal of value to the notion of sportsmanship. I will not claim that we were always perfect, but we always entered a game with the best of intentions. If we won, we afforded our opponents their dignity. If we lost, we admired the success of the victor - assuming they conducted themselves in a manner that was deserving of our respect.

Sorry for the long post. This topic is near and dear.

  • 02.29.2012 12:02 PM PDT

yas334229812

Problem trash talking is for fun, but when it starts getting annoying like spam, etc, and someone just screaming obscene language, then it better be controlled.

  • 02.29.2012 12:04 PM PDT

DMH

Halo 2 had the right amount of trash-talkability imo.

It definitely adds to the fun of the game for me.

  • 02.29.2012 12:07 PM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

PMS and your clan share a smilar CoC, DeeJ.

From my experience, harassment remains prevalent in the gaming community: here on B.net, on XBL, BSN, Steam... you name it.

It's not just against a gender, it's against anyone who differs from you. People have been hounded over skill and opinion on this site. Not a big surprise to people.

I don't have a definite solution, though.
Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
So where is the line between trash-talking and harassment?

Certainly. The line exists within you, as the player.

Trash talking among friends is harmless. You can throw a verbal taunt intended to ignite their competitive spirit or provoke them to make a mistake. With the right sense of humor, you can even accomplish this with opponents that you encounter in matchmaking.

Harrassment occurs when those comments stop being part of a healthy rivaly, and start being a means of making someone feel bad about themselves. Use whatever words you want: shaming, griefing. At that point, you stop being a worthy opponent, and enter the realm of the bully or the sore loser.

The clan that I always played Halo (and other games) with assigned a great deal of value to the notion of sportsmanship. I will not claim that we were always perfect, but we always entered a game with the best of intentions. If we won, we afforded our opponents their dignity. If we lost, we admired the success of the victor - assuming they conducted themselves in a manner that was deserving of our respect.

Sorry for the long post. This topic is near and dear.

  • 02.29.2012 12:09 PM PDT

Tin shacks and catfish bones.

It's okay, DeeJ. Let the butthurt flow through you.

  • 02.29.2012 12:09 PM PDT


Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: LongMasterWolf
So where is the line between trash-talking and harassment?

Certainly. The line exists within you, as the player.

Trash talking among friends is harmless. You can throw a verbal taunt intended to ignite their competitive spirit or provoke them to make a mistake. With the right sense of humor, you can even accomplish this with opponents that you encounter in matchmaking.

Harrassment occurs when those comments stop being part of a healthy rivaly, and start being a means of making someone feel bad about themselves. Use whatever words you want: shaming, griefing. At that point, you stop being a worthy opponent, and enter the realm of the bully or the sore loser.

The clan that I always played Halo (and other games) with assigned a great deal of value to the notion of sportsmanship. I will not claim that we were always perfect, but we always entered a game with the best of intentions. If we won, we afforded our opponents their dignity. If we lost, we admired the success of the victor - assuming they conducted themselves in a manner that was deserving of our respect.

Sorry for the long post. This topic is near and dear.


Nothing wrong with a long post. I agree with the outlines you talked about, and I think everyone isn't perfect and will occasionally slip up with some vile speech or action.

What can be done about the community members who don't care for these rules? Is there a way to "reform" them and still keep them in the community or is it even worth it?

  • 02.29.2012 12:13 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: cortana 5

It's not just against a gender, it's against anyone who differs from you. People have been hounded over skill and opinion on this site. Not a big surprise to people.


That is just plain wrong. I hope those people were all met with the xbox live code of conduct team and removed from the gaming population.

There is always some banter back and forth and I don't mind if it is harmless but it is not cool to try and hurt someone's feelings.

  • 02.29.2012 12:13 PM PDT
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I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

Posted by: Halcylon
umad?
[/quote]

I was hoping someone would provide some decent comic relief in this thread.

  • 02.29.2012 12:14 PM PDT

Stupidity, when sufficiently advanced, is indistinguishable from magic

Trash talking's part of the fun for me, but I do it in a friendly way. I draw the line at insulting someone personally; I wouldn't even call someone a bad player.

  • 02.29.2012 12:17 PM PDT

@spaboolly

DeeJ hit the nail on the head, but I'd just like to add that a lot of the time linguistics plays a big part in it. When we speak, our choice of words can mean little to us and everything to the recipient. Thinking before you speak can be very important. If anything you say can be considered offensive or cross a line, rethink it. I don't believe in trash talking, but I accept it as a part of any friendly competition as long as it stays within certain boundaries.

If you're dishing out a verbal serving of degradation, however, that's completely uncalled for. Especially if it's motivated by things beyond the other person's control. That kind of behavior shouldn't even be tolerated as much as it is. But as much as we'd like to, we can't control others. The best thing you can really do when you face something like that personally is to just ignore it.

As for people online harassing others, I guess it all comes down to remembering childhood lessons: "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all." Although it wouldn't surprise me if many of the people spewing nonsensical hate speech in the more public areas of online gaming are children (or adults who cling to a juvenile mentality) who have never been taught those lessons.

  • 02.29.2012 12:21 PM PDT

@spawn031

"So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories." John Williams

Posted by: supertripon
Trash talking's part of the fun for me.

Eh, you'll grow out of it. Unless you're Butane ;)

  • 02.29.2012 12:22 PM PDT

"You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space." -Johnny Cash

I believe that trash talk and harassment are two completely different things. Trash talk is all about messing around without personally insulting someone, but harassment is personally insulting someone and continuing to do so when you know that you're going too far.

Harassment on Xbox Live is dealt with by Microsoft through filing complaints, and I believe that this system is how it should be for all of online gaming. Of course you'll get the instances where the system doesn't work, but you can always mute them and/or block communications with them.

[Edited on 02.29.2012 12:26 PM PST]

  • 02.29.2012 12:24 PM PDT

Best Song ever: You Cant Quit Me Baby by Queens of the Stone Age

Also Guns and Roses are the biggest load of pish-posh ever

I think you're making trash talking to be a bad thing, when it isn't. Trash Talking can bring out the best in people (in terms of competitiveness within a game) which can only be a good thing for the team. It can also bring out the worst in people (see harassment)

The real issue is that there is no "line" between Trash Talking and harassment. People take banter differently. A simple "you suck at halo" could either be brushed off, or taken as a personal insult. Obviously there are topics that will automatically be classed as harassment (Racism, Sexism, PM spamming). As for addressing the issues, youre not going to change the entire gaming community overnight, or even over a period of years.

The only thing I can think of is some sort of vocal/text recognition system that recognizes when blatant racial/sexist language has been used, and serves up an appropriate punishment.

  • 02.29.2012 12:24 PM PDT

Posted by: FALSE R3ALITYx
Bricypoo's custom user title = Ultra Lame Thread Maker


Posted by: True Underdog
Only after we ban Bricypoo.

This threads if full of unskillful idiots.
/joke

Anyways, I never view trash talking as a "bad thing". In almost every type of online gaming thing you can ignore, block, mute exc. So if someone is giving you a hard time, you can just ignore them. I personally think people just take things too personally now-a-days...

Of course, I come from a very sarcastic background so I'm kind of used to "harassment"

[Edited on 02.29.2012 12:30 PM PST]

  • 02.29.2012 12:27 PM PDT

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