Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: This is what I think if Halo was saved by competitive players...
  • Subject: This is what I think if Halo was saved by competitive players...
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: This is what I think if Halo was saved by competitive players...
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I've posted this thread in the Waypoint forums to share my view on the future of Halo.

Link to thread.

  • 03.12.2012 8:32 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Lost my old account long ago ( darkops0 :[ )... Halo forever! :3
and back for awhile xD

I agree that everyone should have a say instead of one side getting more attention and the other is not. It just throws off the balance xD

Edit- below, I think both are the life blood of halo xD see COD? So many casuals that once it finally becomes stale... Who will it fall back on? Halo if it suddenly becomes old for awhile... The hardcore halo players will stay to give it support until the casual players come back. Its like the hardcore players are the backbone and the casual players are the fleshy bits.

Even if the flesh bends or gets eaten away, the back bone will still be there..

[Edited on 03.12.2012 8:46 AM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 8:35 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Rakive
  • user homepage:

You must confront your inabilities
You must adjust to your capabilities

I posted on it how competitive people don't belong in halo since casuals are the life of halo.

  • 03.12.2012 8:40 AM PDT


Posted by: Rakive
I posted on it how competitive people don't belong in halo since casuals are the life of reach.

ftfy

  • 03.12.2012 8:45 AM PDT

Tin shacks and catfish bones.


Posted by: Rakive
I posted on it how competitive people don't belong in halo since casuals are the life of halo.


Not sure if serious...

The "casuals" already left when MW3 came out. Or, they're still playing Black OPs or another game of their choice. Fickle..

  • 03.12.2012 10:48 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member
  • gamertag: P3P5I
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Players who walked away - Good riddance to bad rubbish. It might not be what you want but if you loved Halo as such, you'd persevere with it.That was a rather elaborate way to say "adapt". The fanboy shines bright with this one.

I feel for the competitive players. Personally, core gameplay should be balanced and rewarding, which is what competitive players are really asking for. Many people have the wrong idea about competitive players, and think competitive players only want a game that caters to themselves. The reality is casual players can enjoy a competitive-catered game, but this does not work the other way around.

On the other hand, many competitive players need to be realistic with their proposals. A Halo 2/3 copy is not feasible for the good of the franchise. Competitive players need to propose ideas that answer the question, "Why do it your way when I can just lower the threshold by catering to casuals and double the profits?"

  • 03.12.2012 11:21 AM PDT

THATS MY COOL MAN I CAN'T TAKE IT OFF!

Posted by: P3P5I
On the other hand, many competitive players need to be realistic with their proposals. A Halo 2/3 copy is not feasible for the good of the franchise. Competitive players need to propose ideas that answer the question, "Why do it your way when I can just lower the threshold by catering to casuals and double the profits?"


Halo 2 and Halo 3 were wildly popular with casuals and both flourished as competitive games. Yeah, what a terrible course to follow.

Meanwhile, Reach was dumbed down and catered to casuals, and the majority of both crowds jumped ship.

[Edited on 03.12.2012 12:04 PM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 12:02 PM PDT

fear me, for i am pro sauce

what they should do is cater to serious players and casual players like bungie did with halo 3, have a ranked playlists where the point is to win and get better and have social playlists made for fun

  • 03.12.2012 12:06 PM PDT

~ Videogames are my favorite videogames ~

I like how we can accurately measure the playstyle of some 100,000 people who still play this game.

  • 03.12.2012 12:13 PM PDT

Walk by faith. Dude. Not by sight.

Competitive game play is extremely important to the future of Halo, even though most people who play are casual. The casuals, of which I am one, will play even if it caters to the competitive side.

I'm about to become an Inheritor, but it means nothing more than I play a lot. If the ranking was like Halo 3, I'd probably be stuck at Captain, but at least it would mean something.

  • 03.12.2012 12:21 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member
  • gamertag: P3P5I
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: Andrei Chikatilo
Posted by: P3P5I
On the other hand, many competitive players need to be realistic with their proposals. A Halo 2/3 copy is not feasible for the good of the franchise. Competitive players need to propose ideas that answer the question, "Why do it your way when I can just lower the threshold by catering to casuals and double the profits?"


Halo 2 and Halo 3 were wildly popular with casuals and both flourished as competitive games. Yeah, what a terrible course to follow.

Meanwhile, Reach was dumbed down and catered to casuals, and the majority of both crowds jumped ship.
If you want to argue profits, it's a known fact that (generally) catering to casuals nets you more money than catering to hardcore fans. Sure, you can make a competitive game that casuals will like, but casuals will love a game more that has no skill entrance and gives you an achievement and a sticker for pressing the start button.

What do you say when a publisher says Halo Reach broke sales records against all past halo games? What do you say when the publisher shows you the Xbox live charts showing 2 immensely casualized games as the most popular games on the Xbox? How do you reconcile that obviously safe and very profitable game development decision to cater to casuals?

  • 03.12.2012 12:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: Rakive
I posted on it how competitive people don't belong in halo since casuals are the life of halo.


So you're saying the players that jump ship as soon as something newer and shiner comes out are what keep games alive?



Please..... go back under your rock.

  • 03.12.2012 12:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: P3P5I
What do you say when a publisher says Halo Reach broke sales records against all past halo games? What do you say when the publisher shows you the Xbox live charts showing 2 immensely casualized games as the most popular games on the Xbox? How do you reconcile that obviously safe and very profitable game development decision to cater to casuals?


Quantity != Quality

  • 03.12.2012 12:36 PM PDT

Can't see. Banned. Lol.

I will still agree with whatever that thread is.

  • 03.12.2012 12:40 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member
  • gamertag: P3P5I
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: Kira Onime
Posted by: P3P5I
What do you say when a publisher says Halo Reach broke sales records against all past halo games? What do you say when the publisher shows you the Xbox live charts showing 2 immensely casualized games as the most popular games on the Xbox? How do you reconcile that obviously safe and very profitable game development decision to cater to casuals?
Quantity != Quality
Publishers don't care. It is the profits that matter to them, so how can a competitive game be more profitable than a casual game?

(hint: profitable doesn't always refer to tangible money returns)

[Edited on 03.12.2012 12:54 PM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 12:46 PM PDT

Thats far too simple of a solution. lol
Posted by: SUPER MOOSE93
what they should do is cater to serious players and casual players like bungie did with halo 3, have a ranked playlists where the point is to win and get better and have social playlists made for fun

  • 03.12.2012 12:52 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Veteran Legendary Member

The 343 forums suck. They're full of retarded kids and mods who got butthurt in the B.net forums for being told that they're bad.


Posted by: boomdeyadah
Can't see. Banned. Lol.


That's what you get for disagreeing with retards.

  • 03.12.2012 12:57 PM PDT

Posted by: B Rye
Posted by: boomdeyadah
Can't see. Banned. Lol.


That's what you get for disagreeing with retards.
lol

  • 03.12.2012 1:21 PM PDT

Welcome to the internet. Joy dies here.

Posting my reply to that thread here, in preparation for my inevitable ban lol

Posted by: L4xm4n
I think what the competitive plays wanted was for Bungie to build up from their previous games. Instead they removed/changed things.

For example, the plasma rifle in Halo CE had a stun effect. This gave the weapon a purpose. In the later halos, the stun effect was removed and the weapon is now useless.

Strafing has become worse throughout the halo series. Halo Reach has the worst strafe, halo 1 and 2 had the best. What's the point of decreasing the effectiveness of the strafe? So it's easier more new players to hit their target.

Hitboxes are larger now too. Your reticule can be beside your enemy and you will still hit them.

The utility weapon is less effective than before. After every halo game, the kill time of the utility weapon increased.

These are a few of the many unnecessary things that Bungie did to the game. They could've added on top of these things, but instead they changed it.

I think in those areas Bungie was trying to make the game a little easier to learn while still maintaining it's competitive nature. Broadening the audience. I think Reach was just a step too far. Halo 3 was something of a sweet spot as far as that goes, with enough simple mechanics for players to be able to jump from campaign to MM without having to relearn the way they play completely.

I'm all for appealing to a larger audience, but the purpose should be clear - welcoming that larger audience into a competitive environment.

I think something has been overlooked in this competitive vs. social debate. Social is still competitive. That's the nature of the game. You're competing with your opponent to win the match. Even firefight is competitive to a degree, because you're competing for the highest score. Halo is necessarily a game of competition. In fact, all games are competitions. In Scrabble the aim is to achieve a higher score than your opponent. Even jumping jacks has a competitive focus. Competition is what makes games interesting. Competition is what makes it a game.

So 'competitive' is the wrong word to use. The debate here is about the difficulty of the game. Reach is easier than Halo 3. Easier to perform well and easier to survive. In even matches that's not as much of a problem. The problem is the uneven matches.
That's when the disparity of learning curves between the various mechanics really gets drawn to the forefront. Skilled players get frustrated when they lose an engagement to a lesser skilled player because the lesser skilled player was using a simpler mechanic. Lesser skilled players get frustrated when they lose almost every engagement to more skilled players using mechanics that are beyond the abilities of the lesser skilled player. What does that mean?
Difficulty settings. There's a reason just about every game ever has had Easy/Medium/Hard/Expert, or some subset thereof. Trying to put all of your audience on an even playing field means you'll have a very small audience. Letting your audience have some level of control over the difficulty of their experience means a much larger audience and far fewer frustrated players. The lesser skilled can enjoy playing Easy/Medium, while the more skilled players that are looking for more of a challenge can enjoy the Hard/Expert difficulties. The lesser skilled players will get frustrated on the higher difficulties, just as the more skilled players will get bored on the lower difficulties. So you offer some degree of selection.

That's what Reach is lacking. Difficulty selection. The majority of MM is being treated like the Easy/Medium setting, with MLG being Expert. There's no middle ground for players to cross the gap from Medium to Expert, and Expert is essentially one 'level' compared to the rest of MM. Would it make sense if 90% of the Reach campaign was only available on Easy/Medium, and there was one level at the end of the game with the option of Expert? Perhaps in the bigoted mind of a very selfish individual who only plays one difficulty and only cares about his current personal experience. It would be foolish for a company to make a game for just one person. They would have to develop it for less than $60.

Ranking in Halo 3 had it's drawbacks, but the net effect was a much more balanced environment, with options for all sorts of players. I hope 343 moves back in that direction somehow. The combined audiences mean we have the potential to collectively finance a much better end product if only we could tolerate each other's presence.

  • 03.12.2012 1:29 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

My Level. Get on it.


Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: darkopsO
I agree that everyone should have a say instead of one side getting more attention and the other is not. It just throws off the balance xD

Edit- below, I think both are the life blood of halo xD see COD? So many casuals that once it finally becomes stale... Who will it fall back on? Halo if it suddenly becomes old for awhile... The hardcore halo players will stay to give it support until the casual players come back. Its like the hardcore players are the backbone and the casual players are the fleshy bits.

Even if the flesh bends or gets eaten away, the back bone will still be there..


...That's actually a very good analogy.

  • 03.12.2012 1:33 PM PDT

Posting my reply to that thread here, in preparation for my inevitable ban lol

I highly doubt they will ban you for that post. The issue is, the majority of the posts from BOTH sides are "LOL THE OTHER SIDE IS A CASUAL N00B RETARD", with no real constructive feedback. Your post actually had some decent content.

Guys, if you expect 343 to listen to you, you need to back your arguments with logic and reason, instead of just insulting each other constantly.

[Edited on 03.12.2012 1:36 PM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 1:34 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: P3P5I
Players who walked away - Good riddance to bad rubbish. It might not be what you want but if you loved Halo as such, you'd persevere with it.That was a rather elaborate way to say "adapt". The fanboy shines bright with this one.

I feel for the competitive players. Personally, core gameplay should be balanced and rewarding, which is what competitive players are really asking for. Many people have the wrong idea about competitive players, and think competitive players only want a game that caters to themselves. The reality is casual players can enjoy a competitive-catered game, but this does not work the other way around.

On the other hand, many competitive players need to be realistic with their proposals. A Halo 2/3 copy is not feasible for the good of the franchise. Competitive players need to propose ideas that answer the question, "Why do it your way when I can just lower the threshold by catering to casuals and double the profits?"

  • 03.12.2012 1:39 PM PDT

Welcome to the internet. Joy dies here.

Posted by: Ramir3z77
I highly doubt they will ban you for that post. The issue is, the majority of the posts from BOTH sides are "LOL THE OTHER SIDE IS A CASUAL N00B RETARD", with no real constructive feedback. Your post actually had some decent content.

Guys, if you expect 343 to listen to you, you need to back your arguments with logic and reason, instead of just insulting each other constantly.

Well, seeing as this is 'spam' but this isn't, I'm led to believe that 343's idea of a logical argument has to line up with the logic they use.

  • 03.12.2012 1:47 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

My Level. Get on it.


Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: cameo_cream

Posted by: P3P5I
Players who walked away - Good riddance to bad rubbish. It might not be what you want but if you loved Halo as such, you'd persevere with it.That was a rather elaborate way to say "adapt". The fanboy shines bright with this one.

I feel for the competitive players. Personally, core gameplay should be balanced and rewarding, which is what competitive players are really asking for. Many people have the wrong idea about competitive players, and think competitive players only want a game that caters to themselves. The reality is casual players can enjoy a competitive-catered game, but this does not work the other way around.

On the other hand, many competitive players need to be realistic with their proposals. A Halo 2/3 copy is not feasible for the good of the franchise. Competitive players need to propose ideas that answer the question, "Why do it your way when I can just lower the threshold by catering to casuals and double the profits?"


That's the thing though, Halo was more successful when it was competitive. At the base of it all, Halo is competitive. The competitive community makes the base, and the casuals fill it out.

Without the competitive side, you get a C grade xbox game which no one really wants to play; especially when you have a triple A casual game like COD available.

The other guy was right, H3 was in the sweet spot. It appealed to the competitive side, keeping the game alive, and it appealed to the broader audience.

  • 03.12.2012 1:47 PM PDT

Welcome to the internet. Joy dies here.

Posted by: SouthPoIe
...The other guy...

Well fine - -blam!- you too then lol

  • 03.12.2012 1:50 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2