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  • Subject: "Bungie.Net isn't Facebook...."
Subject: "Bungie.Net isn't Facebook...."
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Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV

Posted by: Xplode441
Posted by: Radical Edward
If anyone has enough social power to inspire others to discuss a topic that they aren't personally interested in, that person has a career in government or sales, not in keeping topics on page one of these forums. Besides, if those "followers" are actually making a real discussion, that's exactly WHY this suggestion is being made. To expose this community, this site, these forums and our discussions to more people out there who might be interested in joining the site, community and our discussions. More interest, more participation is good, not bad.

Do you honestly think that you have to be amazing to get other users to follow you on twitter? No, you don't. I'm not talking about these people actually actively participating in the conversation, I'm talking about them just bumping the thread up and coming back to bump it if it starts being threatened.

If a Twitter follower, a Google+ circle member, or a Facebook friend sees one of my social posts and sees a link to this site....

They can click on it or not.
If they click, then they can read the OP of the thread.
If they are interested, they can either login (maybe have to create an account), or not.
If they login, and they have something to say, they can post, or not.
If they post, they have to be on topic, or if they are not, they run the risk that any member runs for making a rule violating post.
If I had tweeted, liked, or +1'ed to get them to do something rule breaking and they get banned? They're likely to unfriend, defollow, or uncircle me for being a manipulative jerk who sees their social network as drones for my personal bidding.

I think more highly of my followers than that. I would hope that everyone does.

Late Edit/Add: But if I can get 1 or more of my followers on another site to visit this site and perhaps join... that is HUGE! That means 1 more member for our Army! 1 more person who either didn't know or didn't care to join who found a reason that made them want to join! That's GREAT!!!!

[Edited on 03.12.2012 7:24 PM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 7:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: Xplode441
Do you honestly think that you have to be amazing to get other users to follow you on twitter? No, you don't. I'm not talking about these people actually actively participating in the conversation, I'm talking about them just bumping the thread up and coming back to bump it if it starts being threatened.

Bumping (posts that don't contribute to discussion) is considered spam and is warn or ban-able. Also, what prevents those from doing it now?

  • 03.12.2012 7:22 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

If something like that could be implemented seamlessly and wouldn't make the forums look like -blam!-, I don't see why you fine gentlemen would have a problem with it.

The arguments that Bungie.net doesn't need more traffic or that the existence of such a feature would decrease post quality are both absurd, to be frank. The point of any site on the net is to "get more people to see", and the community as a whole isn't exactly a paragon of maturity, being made up of mostly teenagers because, surprise surprise, this is a video game website.

With that being said, I'm entirely indifferent to the feature and likely wouldn't use it if it were implemented on the next update, which almost seems plausible, judging by the defense of this concept by the two yellow-clad individuals in this thread. Point of this post: a lot of you are being unnecessarily difficult for no good reason.

[Edited on 03.12.2012 7:24 PM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 7:23 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: Radical Edward
If a Twitter follower, a Google+ circle member, or a Facebook friend sees one of my social posts and sees a link to this site....

They can click on it or not.
If they click, then they can read the OP of the thread.
If they are interested, they can either login (maybe have to create an account), or not.
If they login, and they have something to say, they can post, or not.
If they post, they have to be on topic, or if they are not, they run the risk that any member runs for making a rule violating post.
If I had tweeted, liked, or +1'ed to get them to do something rule breaking and they get banned? They're likely to unfriend, defollow, or uncircle me for being a manipulative jerk who sees their social network as drones for my personal bidding.

I think more highly of my followers than that. I would hope that everyone does.

Yeah... this is the internet, you won't find a lot of highly moral people here. There will be people who feel that their thread is the most important topic out there and will do whatever it takes to keep it at the top. It's not about if they're interested in the thread or not, it's about what kind of protection is there going to be to keep this kind of activity from happening? You can't rely on people's behaviors.

  • 03.12.2012 7:26 PM PDT
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Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV

Posted by: Xplode441
Posted by: Radical Edward
If a Twitter follower, a Google+ circle member, or a Facebook friend sees one of my social posts and sees a link to this site....

They can click on it or not.
If they click, then they can read the OP of the thread.
If they are interested, they can either login (maybe have to create an account), or not.
If they login, and they have something to say, they can post, or not.
If they post, they have to be on topic, or if they are not, they run the risk that any member runs for making a rule violating post.
If I had tweeted, liked, or +1'ed to get them to do something rule breaking and they get banned? They're likely to unfriend, defollow, or uncircle me for being a manipulative jerk who sees their social network as drones for my personal bidding.

I think more highly of my followers than that. I would hope that everyone does.

Yeah... this is the internet, you won't find a lot of highly moral people here. There will be people who feel that their thread is the most important topic out there and will do whatever it takes to keep it at the top. It's not about if they're interested in the thread or not, it's about what kind of protection is there going to be to keep this kind of activity from happening? You can't rely on people's behaviors.

I don't see it being more prevalent or likely because a topic can be easily tweeted by a member. If (as you propose) the tactic is that seductive AND productive, then I would imagine people are already doing it manually.

I personally don't see any evidence of such abuse and I know that there are rules, tools and rule enforcers who are already in place in case such abuses are seen by the members or enforcers.

I can't imagine someone blindly being a member of someone's "on demand bumping armada" remaining faithful and diligent for very long. Unless she's sharing nekkid pictures and/or cookies.

  • 03.12.2012 7:31 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: Radical Edward
I don't see it being more prevalent or likely because a topic can be easily tweeted by a member. If (as you propose) the tactic is that seductive AND productive, then I would imagine people are already doing it manually.

I personally don't see any evidence of such abuse and I know that there are rules, tools and rule enforcers who are already in place in case such abuses are seen by the members or enforcers.

I can't imagine someone blindly being a member of someone's "on demand bumping armada" remaining faithful and diligent for very long. Unless she's sharing nekkid pictures and/or cookies.

I wouldn't doubt that people are doing it manually. What I'm saying is simple, a group of users are using the social network to keep each others threads bumped up to the top, and if you think that can't happen then you have a very innocent view of these forums. There are people that think their threads are more important than other peoples and they'll resort to these kind of tactics to keep at the top.

Think about it, all they have to do is click a button, and echofon pops up the tweet to their circle of friends and that signals that their thread is in danger and to post in it. I'm not against this idea, I'm just raising a concern that I had with this idea. I'd like for someone to come up with a way to help keep this from happening besides, "I don't think the users would do that."

  • 03.12.2012 8:04 PM PDT
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Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV

I didn't say "I don't think that it would happen", I said "I don't see any sign of it occurring now and I can't see it being sustainable if the social network notification is either manual (as it currently must be) or simplified (as I am suggesting)".

So, can you point at current evidence of such an occurrence/incident or are we both speculating without any evidence of such abuse? Because I can't show you a non-example, you'll have to show an example.

  • 03.12.2012 8:14 PM PDT

Halo Waypoint is a video game forum, is probably the most closely related forum to Bungie.net in terms of demographics and discussion topics, and has Retweet links on every post.

I thought that was an interesting little tidbit of info to post amongst the blind hate that's also being posted in here.

  • 03.12.2012 8:19 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: Radical Edward
I didn't say "I don't think that it would happen", I said "I don't see any sign of it occurring now and I can't see it being sustainable if the social network notification is either manual (as it currently must be) or simplified (as I am suggesting)".

So, can you point at current evidence of such an occurrence/incident or are we both speculating without any evidence of such abuse? Because I can't show you a non-example, you'll have to show an example.

I don't believe I said you don't think that it would happen, I'm saying that you aren't providing a realistic reasoning about it. You're saying that you can't see it happening, and I'm saying that I can. I already provided you with an example of how easy it would be to spread this with your bumping friends if it was a one click deal, at least if it was manual then maybe they wouldn't feel like going through the effort.

I never said that it was happening for sure, I'm saying that it wouldn't surprise me if this was happening. I'm not 100% sure if it is happening therefore I wouldn't be able to give you an example, making it silly for you to ask me for an example.

Also, I'm not asking you to attack my arguments and for me to give you examples, I'm asking for you to come up with something better than my idea to help prevent this from happening. So far all you've come up with is, "I don't think this will happen." You can't count on people's behaviors, you have to prepare for the unexpected uses of every item.

  • 03.12.2012 8:22 PM PDT
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Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV


Posted by: dazarobbo
Halo Waypoint is a video game forum, is probably the most closely related forum to Bungie.net in terms of demographics and discussion topics, and has Retweet links on every post.

I thought that was an interesting little tidbit of info to post amongst the blind hate that's also being posted in here.

I am not even making a suggestion that is so large scale as to be able to socially link every post. I think that the tools to easily tweet/like/+1 just the OP/Page 1 of a topic would be subtle, helpful, and less seen as a "look at me, aren't I clever or cool?" and more of a "look at this, isn't it interesting?" sort of announcement.

  • 03.12.2012 8:23 PM PDT
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Positive vibes.

I honestly do not care what they decide to do with this website. If they want to implement something, and I do not feel like using it, or take advantage of it, I simply won't.

There are groups on here, but not everyone partakes in them. There are different forums, but not everyone visits them. That is because we have a choice, as with everything else on this website.

We are not being forced to do anything. If they decide to incorporate everything you mentioned into this website, we will have a choice as to whether or not we want to share, tweet, +, and so on. So long as we're not being forced to do anything, there shouldn't be a problem.

  • 03.12.2012 8:23 PM PDT
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Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV

Posted by: Xplode441
Also, I'm not asking you to attack my arguments and for me to give you examples, I'm asking for you to come up with something better than my idea to help prevent this from happening. So far all you've come up with is, "I don't think this will happen." You can't count on people's behaviors, you have to prepare for the unexpected uses of every item.

I am not attacking, I am saying that the only possible response to an open and hypothetical statements of "I believe that this can/will be abused" is a counterpoint that is equally speculative such as "I don't see this being abused now and can't imagine it would be worse".

Or do we go down the "tiger repellent" path?

[Edited on 03.12.2012 8:30 PM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 8:27 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: Radical Edward
I am not attacking, I am saying that the only possible response to an open and hypothetical statements of "I believe that this can/will be abused" is a counterpoint that is equally speculative such as "I don't see this being abused now and can't imagine it would be worse".

That's not a feasible counter. You need to expect it to be abused and come up with ways to counter it, that's how you innovate on items. You don't just say, "Oh they'll never do this with this." you need to expect them to do it and have preventative measures to keep it from happening.

Again, I'm not against this idea. I actually have an add on for firefox that lets me just tweet my address bar and I have used it for bungie.net, so I would actually like for this to be implemented, but I would also like for my concern to be addressed.

  • 03.12.2012 8:31 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: dazarobbo
Halo Waypoint is a video game forum, is probably the most closely related forum to Bungie.net in terms of demographics and discussion topics, and has Retweet links on every post.

I thought that was an interesting little tidbit of info to post amongst the blind hate that's also being posted in here.


Waypoint forums are also slow and laggy as hell! Nothing compared to this forums, Bungie forums are fast, good lucking and original, not a copy/paste.

[Edited on 03.12.2012 8:33 PM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 8:33 PM PDT
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Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV


Posted by: Xplode441
Posted by: Radical Edward
I am not attacking, I am saying that the only possible response to an open and hypothetical statements of "I believe that this can/will be abused" is a counterpoint that is equally speculative such as "I don't see this being abused now and can't imagine it would be worse".

That's not a feasible counter. You need to expect it to be abused and come up with ways to counter it, that's how you innovate on items. You don't just say, "Oh they'll never do this with this." you need to expect them to do it and have preventative measures to keep it from happening.

Again, I'm not against this idea. I actually have an add on for firefox that lets me just tweet my address bar and I have used it for bungie.net, so I would actually like for this to be implemented, but I would also like for my concern to be addressed.

You have a concern about abuse, you even have a personal version (available to others I would imagine) of the proposed feature (that would make such abuse easier) and you don't see a need to demonstrate that the risk is real or provide evidence that the current abilities are being abused?

Okay, I guess that we ARE going to talk about tiger repellent.

I have a magic button on my desk that I press daily and it prevents people from abusing their social networking membership to spam this forum. Since there isn't any current abuse that you can point to, that button is CLEARLY doing a great job.

So, a concern without evidence is handled by a solution without proof. You have to show some real risk to your concern in order for a solution to be even realistic. Hypothetical risks are just as effectively addressed by imaginary solutions as real solutions (without the need for any effort expended on testing or results). Real risks with evidence of their cause and effect can be specifically addressed.

[Edited on 03.12.2012 8:40 PM PDT]

  • 03.12.2012 8:39 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: dazarobbo
Halo Waypoint is a video game forum, is probably the most closely related forum to Bungie.net in terms of demographics and discussion topics, and has Retweet links on every post.

I thought that was an interesting little tidbit of info to post amongst the blind hate that's also being posted in here.
I honestly don't think that Halo Waypoint is necessarily the forum that Bungie should be striving to take after. I mean, parts of it sure look pretty but overall I've found it's not a very fun experience. Not trying to go too far off-topic, I just don't think it's a good example to use in defense of the addition of social features.

Now, as for retweeting, I'm neutral really. I don't see the allure of twitter when you have things like facebook unless you want to follow celebrities or news outlets but for a regular person to retweet something.... I don't know. S'pose I just don't get the appeal.

  • 03.12.2012 8:42 PM PDT
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Edward Wong Hau Pepelu Tivrusky IV

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Posted by: dazarobbo
Halo Waypoint is a video game forum, is probably the most closely related forum to Bungie.net in terms of demographics and discussion topics, and has Retweet links on every post.

I thought that was an interesting little tidbit of info to post amongst the blind hate that's also being posted in here.
I honestly don't think that Halo Waypoint is necessarily the forum that Bungie should be striving to take after. I mean, parts of it sure look pretty but overall I've found it's not a very fun experience. Not trying to go too far off-topic, I just don't think it's a good example to use in defense of the addition of social features.

Now, as for retweeting, I'm neutral really. I don't see the allure of twitter when you have things like facebook unless you want to follow celebrities or news outlets but for a regular person to retweet something.... I don't know. S'pose I just don't get the appeal.

Which is mostly what I am thinking. The impact of a typical member retweeting, liking or +1'ing is small, but potentially positive.

But what would the effect be of a Nathan Fillion, Wil Wheaton, or some other nerd/celeb tweeting a thread here? Sure the one topic might explode with nonsense (like the old Pie thread of yore), but that would be a LOT of new members into our community.

  • 03.12.2012 8:45 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: Radical Edward
Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Posted by: dazarobbo
Halo Waypoint is a video game forum, is probably the most closely related forum to Bungie.net in terms of demographics and discussion topics, and has Retweet links on every post.

I thought that was an interesting little tidbit of info to post amongst the blind hate that's also being posted in here.
I honestly don't think that Halo Waypoint is necessarily the forum that Bungie should be striving to take after. I mean, parts of it sure look pretty but overall I've found it's not a very fun experience. Not trying to go too far off-topic, I just don't think it's a good example to use in defense of the addition of social features.

Now, as for retweeting, I'm neutral really. I don't see the allure of twitter when you have things like facebook unless you want to follow celebrities or news outlets but for a regular person to retweet something.... I don't know. S'pose I just don't get the appeal.

Which is mostly what I am thinking. The impact of a typical member retweeting, liking or +1'ing is small, but potentially positive.

But what would the effect be of a Nathan Fillion, Wil Wheaton, or some other nerd/celeb tweeting a thread here? Sure the one topic might explode with nonsense (like the old Pie thread of yore), but that would be a LOT of new members into our community.


Well then I'm confused. Are you lobbying for the addition of social features on Bungie.net or are you in favor of attempting to increase the size of our community via social outreaches and the contacting of celebrities by the community in an attempt to augment BNet's userbase?

  • 03.12.2012 8:49 PM PDT

Posted by: Great_Pretender
Case and point: don't worry about it. Girls start getting boobies pretty soon, and then you'll have plenty of other things to think about. Being an Inheritor is not a life goal.
-TGP-

Posted by: Radical Edward
You have a concern about abuse, you even have a personal version (available to others I would imagine) of the proposed feature (that would make such abuse easier) and you don't see a need to demonstrate that the risk is real or provide evidence that the current abilities are being abused?

If I could easily provide you with an example of how it's being abused, then don't you think that this wouldn't be a concern to me? If this could be easily identified then it wouldn't be as big of a problem as it could be. I honestly don't understand how you don't understand that.

Okay, I guess that we ARE going to talk about tiger repellent.

I have a magic button on my desk that I press daily and it prevents people from abusing their social networking membership to spam this forum. Since there isn't any current abuse that you can point to, that button is CLEARLY doing a great job.

Fantastic, you have given me yet another unrealistic counter. This conversation is becoming so productive. If all signs of abuse were easy to identify, then they wouldn't be problems now would they?

So, a concern without evidence is handled by a solution without proof. You have to show some real risk to your concern in order for a solution to be even realistic. Hypothetical risks are just as effectively addressed by imaginary solutions as real solutions (without the need for any effort expended on testing or results). Real risks with evidence of their cause and effect can be specifically addressed.
It's a possible concern that should be addressed as I've said earlier that's how you innovate on ideas. I honestly don't know why you can't just come up with an idea to help prevent this, oh yeah because all your time has been going into attacking an over analyzing my concerns. Let me explain how ideas work to you again, you listen to the concerns that are raised and you come up with ways to keep those concerns from becoming a problem, it's called innovation or making your idea better.

  • 03.12.2012 8:52 PM PDT

Posted by: MasterSin
Waypoint forums are also slow and laggy as hell! Nothing compared to this forums, Bungie forums are fast, good lucking and original, not a copy/paste.
Unless you're implying that the addition of a Retweet link is what makes the site slow, all of that is completely irrelevant.

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55That wasn't my point. I was merely comparing another video game forum similar to this one which does include the features the OP is talking about as a reply to posts like "this is a video game community site" (implying social features don't belong on video game community sites) and "this is a forum and should stay like a forum" (implying that forums can't have social features either).

  • 03.12.2012 8:52 PM PDT

The world is not beautiful: And that, in a way, lends it a sort of beauty.

~Kino's Journey

Let's be fair here, FB has some really great features that Bnet could really use.

  • 03.12.2012 8:56 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: dazarobboOkay, I understand now. I thought you were implying "It's on such a great website like Waypoint, it must be good!" or something to that effect.

Looking at your post in a different light, it really is a good point.

  • 03.12.2012 8:59 PM PDT

Gamers Anon

Achronos: And what's this about a "design team" I've been hearing? Apparently stosh is so awesome he's now considered a "team".

The whole "This is the forum of a game developer" argument is idiotic. Primarily game developers make games for money the more people who are exposed to their work the more money they get and the more cool stuff we get. So as much as you may hate having more people on the site it will happen and it's not a bad thing.
Posted by: THE SALTY CHIP
Second, these forums don't need more people coming here. It's already active enough.


I used to take the stance that Bungie.net is not a social network. Which in its current stage isn't. However would it really be that bad to have some of the features of a social network?

As much as I dislike Facebook (I don't use it). I can understand why Bungie would make it more like Facebook.

Personally I can't wait for the upcoming changes and for the people who don't like them that is their problem.

Also I lol at the elmicker joke.

  • 03.12.2012 9:01 PM PDT

"No, Hoobla. No."
~DeeJ


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Let the record show that I made my post before Acky and so any of you who usually call me a kiss-ass have no ammunition on this one.

Ha! I WIN!

Time traveling kiss-ass! Lol

  • 03.12.2012 9:12 PM PDT

Cammalamm is the best.

External Links-
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>My Twitter account


Posted by: im am b0red

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
Let the record show that I made my post before Acky and so any of you who usually call me a kiss-ass have no ammunition on this one.

Ha! I WIN!

Time traveling kiss-ass! Lol


I wish i was a time traveling kiss-ass like crazzy... ^_^

  • 03.12.2012 9:18 PM PDT