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Subject: Halo: The Thursday War
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?



Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: GanonSmash

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: GanonSmash
It's crazy how much hate gets thrown at Traviss around here. :([/quote]

Yeah, people having differing opinions that are negative because they didn't enjoy something. What's up with that?
I mean, I can take people having different opinions, and I can see why plenty of people might not be satisfied by Glasslands, but the amount of pure vitriol and "Traviss is ruining Halo" is just overwhelming. It seems like nobody liked the book around here, or those who did aren't vocal at all. And that's kind of depressing to me.


When something is that bad, such a reaction is perfectly logical, especially if you've been a fan since the beginning.
That's the other thing, I've been a pretty big fan for about seven years, and I don't see a reason for the hate other than the fact that the story is moving in a different direction than some fans had expected. Like, there's actually complaints that months after a 25+ year war, the humans and Elites aren't BFFs 4evar. I don't think the book is perfect, sure there are flaws. But the way you see people talking about the book as if it's the end of Halo canon as we know it seems absurd to me.



Buy your wording i can assume your from waypoint so it doesn't surprise me you have no idea in hell what the book messes up.


It takes place before the memorial in halo 3 and yet


- Somehow they already have human based forerunner drives which makes no sense unless they have been studying the forerunners for centuries. By reverse engineering a drive that means they have a forerunner drive which is generally on a forerunner ship, none of that make sense seeing as the portal is right there and in evolutions (which takes place during glasslands) ONI says they don't understand the portal and it will take years to understand. Yet they have a forerunner slipspace drive.

Which is funny because it took 27 years to crack covenant shielding on a jackal gauntlet so how in blue hell did they understand tier 1 technology so damn fast yet they never end up understanding how a plasma pistol works?

Where did they get this forerunner drive from? Because every scrap of forerunner technology that the humans found they had to blow up. So i would love to know where this highly important bit came from.


2.Karen fails in explaining the concepts that she introduces. Starting with the Dyson Sphere.



First off them being able to get out by pressing a few buttons was so anti climatic and turned me off. She doesn't bother to explain what the hell happened to the moon and the sun since the Dyson sphere is the size of a fraging solar system nor does she explain how the sphere didn't affect slipspace travel.


She didn't explain a lick of Mark VII or the spartan fours other than a sentence. Regardless of it being a trilogy or not you cannot just bring something like those up in a single sentence.

3. The entire reason this faction of elites hates humans is because they failed to wipe them out, seeing their expansion in space as an "infestation" and blame all the problems with the elites for not being able to kill the humans faster.


That is horrible writing and makes the elites look childish.

Everybody keeps saying "This is a small fraction of elites" then where were the supporters of the arbiter at in the room? I don't recall any other elites stepping up and using logic.

4. I fail to understand why they hell the elites would allow brutes on their homeworld after the civil war. I don't give a damn if they were involved in it or not, No right minded race would allow them on their homeworld after that. If the ending does end up being brutes attacking elites (since it is only them or elites) then this only furthers how stupid the elites are being made out to be.


5. Of all the things ONI could be doing to keep the elites down why are they making the elites fight each other? It sounds smart on paper but seeing as the brutes are still out there why not instigate something between those two races instead of the elites fighting each other?

That would make far more sense seeing as the rebel elites don't have many if any ships. Therefore, elites and brutes attacking each other with ships and not being able to replace them is the best news to hear in the morning. Yet ONI isn't doing the smart option and i highly doubt we would be doing the same in that matter.

6. What the hell is the point of the infinity? So ONI doesn't have enough money for the SIIIs to get better armor yet they can build that?. This only fuels the point that you are stupid if you are hating on halsey. Not to mention why the hell didn't infinity help out earth and what the hell was it going to do if Earth Fell? I am sure they have some basic weapons that could have been used if not the armor defense would have helped.


I could honestly rant all day about how bad the book is but i stick more so with the technology side and the halsey hate (Along with cobra) if you want to hear a rant about how bad the elites are then message anton.

  • 03.19.2012 6:24 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: GanonSmash

The Halsey thing is really interesting to me. aI mean, ever since Fall of Reach we've obviously seen Halsey as a hero of the war, but when you step back and look at the big picture, the things she did are honestly pretty bad ethically. Kidnapping 6-year-olds and submitting them to tremendous physical and emotional pain, putting them through dangerous medical procedures that killed or crippled a good number of them? And the clones left for the parents?
Obviously the results speak for themselves, since the Spartans did end up saving the galaxy, bit it's not difficult to see why the characters in Glasslands might have seem pretty strong objections to Halsey's actions.


The first error you made is assume that halsey did all of this by herself. She was backed by her government all the way and was approached to do just this. If you have her journal (which i know you don't or i wouldn't be typing this) You would see how out of hands the innies were getting and this was the only solution for the issue.


The only Reason halsey is getting in trouble is because she flash cloned the kids to give the parents closure, which is completely logical and motherly. If she didn't do that then this book probably wouldn't have been written.

I honestly don't recall any of the children crying from physical pain (once they really get started) nor is emotional Pain ever brought up or stated. We have no idea how many spartans actually died (If any) since ONI used that as a cover to gain more spartans.

They object yet vaz was told in plain speech "The spartan IIIs were suicide soldiers" yet he did nothing,said nothing, and was still upset at halsey.


Halsey, Who was constantly putting off meds they weren't safe enough and who was always asking for more funding. The women who know every single spartan inside and out and could tell you who was who while they wore the armor (which canonically looks exactly the same). A women who did indeed feel sorrow when her spartans passed and from book one constantly talked about how bad she felt for what she did to them yet knew it was the best thing to do and hoped they would understand.


Yes, that women deserves every bit of hate that is coming to here but what about the government that allowed this project and funded it? What about Ackerson and the governments push for better results regardless of what it does to the subjects.


Out of many things elder members can see and know you don't know the halo lore we now know you do not understand the lore if you honestly think halsey is a "war criminal" that should be compared to a Fracking N@Z!.

  • 03.19.2012 6:36 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum

I see grey is still raging at people over here in the Universe.

  • 03.19.2012 7:06 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Atomic Tea
I see grey is still raging at people over here in the Universe.


Till the forum is rolled up in the folds.

  • 03.19.2012 7:11 AM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: Carolina
Bring back Nylund for gods sake!

  • 03.19.2012 8:13 AM PDT

I'm looking forward to it.

  • 03.19.2012 12:24 PM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

I hope Parangosky makes more appearances in it.

  • 03.19.2012 1:16 PM PDT

Grey, Decepticon has been here for like 2-3 years...

  • 03.19.2012 1:18 PM PDT

ITT

  • 03.19.2012 5:07 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Roxas 1220
Grey, Decepticon has been here for like 2-3 years...


It was a bad quote on his end, me and Grey are pals.

[Edited on 03.19.2012 5:34 PM PDT]

  • 03.19.2012 5:34 PM PDT

"Living in the past is a luxury none of us can afford..."
"I know what the ladies like..."

I'll be fine as long as no one kills the Arbiter. The only blatant problem I noted is that 'Vadam had a Brute as a guard in his keep. We all know that the Arbiter extremely hates the brutes and would not have allowed such a thing to occur. As much as I hate to sound picky, it's thigs like this that show me that the author doesn't really know what she's talking about.

  • 03.19.2012 6:15 PM PDT

Read title with Yiddish accent.

Best thing ever.

  • 03.19.2012 6:38 PM PDT

now that you mention it glasslands really wasn't all that great, I didn't mind until now because I was just happy to find out what happened to the spartans inside the sphere.

  • 03.21.2012 6:01 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Leaf Dragoon
now that you mention it glasslands really wasn't all that great, I didn't mind until now because I was just happy to find out what happened to the spartans inside the sphere.


They find a Forerunner parking garage. That's it really.

  • 03.21.2012 9:12 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: GanonSmash
and I don't see a reason for the hate other than the fact that the story is moving in a different direction than some fans had expected.

I don't really like it when a series receives a change in writing team or author. I feel that the original feel and direction of the series gets lost over time. Given that 343i is a completely separate company from Bungie, people are more critical at this point in seeing how they plan to handle things. People are looking at the previous stories set by Bungie and comparing them to the direction 343i is taking it. I don't buy into this notion that they can take it wherever they want. They can't. There are certain directions which would be disrespectful and damaging to Halo's pre-existing story. 343i should expand and add to the fiction, not redefine it and overwrite entire paradigms, if such a thing should ever happen, that is. (Which I think happened) If it were Joseph Staten heading things over at 343i then I would shut up and stomach it, but it is not.

Posted by: GanonSmash
Like, there's actually complaints that months after a 25+ year war, the humans and Elites aren't BFFs 4evar.

Oh yes, aren't those people annoying. Anyway though, she did the same thing Tobias Buckell did. Assume that the Sangheili all have the same culture and therefore the same values, social views and opinions on things. This background then combined with things like the Sangheili accepting Brutes leaves literal impressions that Halo 3's developments are irrelevant; it feels like a facetious and pernicious backhander to the atmosphere and developments of the game. Though at least she did not include some over-the-top things that Buckell included, like the Bushido on steriods act.

And to be quite frank with you, I find this whole 25+ year war stuff from the Sangheili's point of view irrelevant. (Though it is perfectly valid from the Human perspective. Don't assume that I think the two are equivalent. That pisses me off when I see morons say that.) It is entirely possible to show the social effects of this war, the uphill political battles and the struggle of progressive social attitudes (Like N'tho 'Sroam) against the old ones (Like Jul), whilst maintaining the theme in Halo 3 that peace is possible and that the two races in particular have potential to develop a lasting relationship. Not only is the battle on Sanghelios a pointless exploration of a conflict that is inconsequential to the welfare of Humanity (Thus why should the reader care who wins or loses when all factions are essentially the same? Why do the Sangheili get attention and not the Brutes in this case? What is so special about them?), it refutes the ideas in Halo 3.

It also makes the Great Schism a blatant dues ex machina. The reasons for it were a least weaved into the story and built up to a climax in Halo 2, despite it being pulled out of Bungie's ass to make it believable that Humanity could survive. Now it is beyond silly for me. The decision of Truth to wipe out the Elites was made with extremely poor timing no matter what he did it for, but at the very least these reason should be based upon something serious. The reasons he supposedly did so were because of the dangerous opinions that were spreading throughout the Sangheili, making them less loyal and very prone to break away from the Covenant. This obviously involved them questioning the war against Humanity, among other things. I don't know what sort of mental gymnastics one would have to employ to deny that.

Now though, the Sangheili just simply believed in everything right up until the end, and then Truth just decided to wipe them out when victory was previously assured beyond a shadow of a doubt, for no reason. There is also no meaningful difference between the Sangheili and Brutes either in this story. I did not see any of it from Glasslands. They both seem as bad as each other, and any "difference" in their susceptibility to sway from the path is trivial and sort of pointless information, with no overall impact to anything else in the story. Someone pointing it out as justification for Truth's motives at this point is weak at best. If the Sangheili only doubted their faith but not the war on Humanity, then what caused them to doubt their faith this bad at this point in their history as opposed to any of the previous 3000 years in the Covenant? It is beyond a co-incidence that it lines up with the war on Humanity. And if they doubt their faith, then why not doubt the rest of the faith's injunctions? Like I said, there is some mental gymnastics in there for nay-sayers I think. Glasslands does not feel like a continuation post Halo 3 to me. I feel it has nothing to do with the story Halo 3 left us. Seems like there are people who think that it is impossible for someone to be forced to commit genocide but also feel that it is wrong, and think that stopping the act of genocide because you think it is wrong is somehow impossible. All I ever see is the same jaded excuse, "b...b...but war!!!! D:".

It almost feels like whoever gave Traviss the facts to write with were the same idiots who gave the first edition of the Halo Encyclopedia a pass, because some of the novel's premises, never mind its conclusions, are seemingly flawed and logically absurd. As a standalone novel however, it is fairly decent, which makes me look at 343i with increased skepticism.

[Edited on 03.21.2012 9:25 PM PDT]

  • 03.21.2012 9:22 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

This is easily one of the worst names for a book I have ever heard.

  • 03.21.2012 10:08 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: privet caboose
This is easily one of the worst names for a book I have ever heard.


Don't know, The Fall of Reach was pretty much false advertising...












/trollface

  • 03.21.2012 10:38 PM PDT
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06' Master Race.

Posted by: Thrasher Fan
Wow, the plot sounds awful.


It could be worse, like space magic.

  • 03.21.2012 11:44 PM PDT
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Join Halo Haven! (Group Leader: A 3 Legged Goat)

(To discuss Halo 4.)

The name of this book and the trilogy is absolutely unacceptable.

PROTOCOL DICTATES ACTION.

No seriously, I want to know what happens next, I found Glasslands to be average-to good.

But the Thursday War, really? And Kilo-5 trilogy?

That is like calling the Forerunner trilogy the [insert Forerunner group here].

  • 03.22.2012 12:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: Silverback Elite
Posted by: Thrasher Fan
Wow, the plot sounds awful.


It could be worse, like space magic.

That's not until the end of the Reclaimer Trilogy.

  • 03.22.2012 3:26 AM PDT

Show Faith/Defy Fate

This is just bull-blam!-. The Halo universe had and still has so much potential and that's really what keeps me interested in it, but they decide to make a trilogy on this obvious post war crap. Galsslands was terrible and I dont even think Ill read this one.
Since 343 is so confident that they can tell a richer story than inside of the game this time, Ill just play Halo 4 and try to keep up with the Forerunner saga.

And personally, I have nothing against Travis. I think shes a good writer but her style just doesnt fit the direction that Halo should be headed in.

  • 03.22.2012 4:48 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Roxas 1220
Grey, Decepticon has been here for like 2-3 years...


It was a bad quote on his end, me and Grey are pals.


Yea, i was responding to that Ganon Guy

[Edited on 03.22.2012 6:13 AM PDT]

  • 03.22.2012 6:12 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: privet caboose
This is easily one of the worst names for a book I have ever heard.


Don't know, The Fall of Reach was pretty much false advertising...
/trollface

Correct if I'm wrong since it's been years since I last read FoR, but weren't there only around 5-6 pages that actually dealt directly with Reach "falling"?

  • 03.22.2012 7:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The Fall of Reach gives the backstory for the spartans and The books ends with Reach being invaded.


So seeing how Reach fell in the book it is fine, the entire book didn't need to be about it.

  • 03.22.2012 7:16 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: grey101
The Fall of Reach gives the backstory for the spartans and The books ends with Reach being invaded.


So seeing how Reach fell in the book it is fine, the entire book didn't need to be about it.

I understand that, and it's fine. However, we never got a feel for the scope and size and why it fell until Halo: Reach and a few other sources came out. Would of been nice if FoR would of told us it was all basically ONI's fault.

  • 03.22.2012 7:21 AM PDT

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