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Subject: So is 343i making the flood like the reapers?
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Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Basically. The Protheans, initially believed to be the innocent and enlightened victims of fate, are revealed through the DLC to have forcefully subjugated the rest of galactic civilization.

Like the Forerunners.
Yes, but Forerunners did not assimilate
other species into their society.

So OP, the Reapers were basically made like the Flood. If I recall, Gravemind was talking about the Flood's purposes as far back as Halo 3. He called the Flood the ultimate stage in biological evolution, just like how the Catalyst says Synthesis/Reapers is the ultimate evolutionary step.Sovereign also described Reapers as the pinnacle of evolution and existance in ME1. The Rannoch Reaper's justification was also pretty much a paraphrase of Sovereign's line, "we impose order on the chaos of organic evolution." And to be fair, there are plenty of science fiction factions who desire peace through assimilation--such as the Borg.

  • 03.19.2012 4:51 PM PDT


Posted by: Colonel Watts

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Basically. The Protheans, initially believed to be the innocent and enlightened victims of fate, are revealed through the DLC to have forcefully subjugated the rest of galactic civilization.

Like the Forerunners.
Yes, but Forerunners did not assimilate
other species into their society.

So OP, the Reapers were basically made like the Flood. If I recall, Gravemind was talking about the Flood's purposes as far back as Halo 3. He called the Flood the ultimate stage in biological evolution, just like how the Catalyst says Synthesis/Reapers is the ultimate evolutionary step.Sovereign also described Reapers as the pinnacle of evolution and existance in ME1. The Rannoch Reaper's justification was also pretty much a paraphrase of Sovereign's line, "we impose order on the chaos of organic evolution." And to be fair, there are plenty of science fiction factions who desire peace through assimilation--such as the Borg.


@Top, yes but it's the same concept: turning the enlightened Ancients into the highly advanced dicks.

@Below, of course nothing these days is 100% original. But I'd like to point out that the "evolution" part was an after thought. The Rannoch Reaper's justification, which hadn't been strictly explained before, is exactly like Primordial's. Life will destroy itself unless it can brought into a singular wisdom. I just find it extremely hard to believe that BioWare's writers didn't read Human Weakness.

Hell, even the Reaper's methods of waging war are exactly the same: as they kill, their armies grow.

  • 03.19.2012 5:34 PM PDT

[Death to all who appose of me...]

Ok, after reading up through the second page i had to stop from the confusion....but one main question....Since when did everyone learn that the Forrunner's were Dicks? Have not the books been out for a couple of years now?? or are these different books?


[Edited on 03.19.2012 9:01 PM PDT]

  • 03.19.2012 8:57 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: ajw34307
Misinformation... such an annoying thing.

No, the Flood do not come in to the Milky Way every 100,000 years and consume 2/3 of the population before leaving. They test races for worthiness of the Mantle, dictating that in order to be worthy the race must succumb to the Flood. Humanity sacrificed two-thirds of their population to hold back the Flood but this sacrifice led to humanity being seen as worthy, the Flood therefore retreated.

It is implied that the Precursors are a collection of races from the Timeless One's dialogue, yes.

  • 03.19.2012 9:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Colonel Watts

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Basically. The Protheans, initially believed to be the innocent and enlightened victims of fate, are revealed through the DLC to have forcefully subjugated the rest of galactic civilization.

Like the Forerunners.
Yes, but Forerunners did not assimilate
other species into their society.

So OP, the Reapers were basically made like the Flood. If I recall, Gravemind was talking about the Flood's purposes as far back as Halo 3. He called the Flood the ultimate stage in biological evolution, just like how the Catalyst says Synthesis/Reapers is the ultimate evolutionary step.Sovereign also described Reapers as the pinnacle of evolution and existance in ME1. The Rannoch Reaper's justification was also pretty much a paraphrase of Sovereign's line, "we impose order on the chaos of organic evolution." And to be fair, there are plenty of science fiction factions who desire peace through assimilation--such as the Borg.


@Top, yes but it's the same concept: turning the enlightened Ancients into the highly advanced dicks.

@Below, of course nothing these days is 100% original. But I'd like to point out that the "evolution" part was an after thought. The Rannoch Reaper's justification, which hadn't been strictly explained before, is exactly like Primordial's. Life will destroy itself unless it can brought into a singular wisdom. I just find it extremely hard to believe that BioWare's writers didn't read Human Weakness.

Hell, even the Reaper's methods of waging war are exactly the same: as they kill, their armies grow.


I really don't think the writers of Mass Effect would have had to have read Human Weakness to have come up with this idea. This is a pretty common philosophical concept used quite a bit in genre fiction. On a really basic level it's much like the Batman villain Ra's al Ghul who believes humanity will continue to destroy itself and the planet until there is nothing left unless he significantly culls the herd and rules over the remaining population himself to bring order to it. It's really like the justifications of a LOT of dictator style characters over the ages just brought to science fiction stage and on a biological level.

The first Ghost in the Shell movie deals with similar concepts in a bit more nuanced way. Basically for the puppetmaster in the movie the next logical step in evolution is for human consciousness to merge together on the net. The concept is all over genre fiction, I don't think Human Weakness is likely to have been a factor in the Mass Effect author's storytelling at all really. I mean, it's POSSIBLE, but there are so many other more commonly known sources for this concept to draw from that it seems unlikely this was the inspiration.

[Edited on 03.20.2012 7:01 AM PDT]

  • 03.20.2012 6:52 AM PDT

Forever Forgotten

chakas is the oracle, although the flood are the forerunners

[Edited on 03.20.2012 11:01 AM PDT]

  • 03.20.2012 11:01 AM PDT

In short, no.

  • 03.20.2012 12:27 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: ChainingAxis
chakas is the oracle, although the flood are the forerunners


No, the Flood are the Precursors.

  • 03.20.2012 1:00 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: grey101
How about you just read the forerunner novels? and if anything Bioware ripped the protheans off the Forerunners since they were exactly like that.


Exactly? Okay then, where in Mass Effect have the Protheans crammed a 2 AU megastructure into an alternate dimension? Or built huge megastructures that make the Citadel look small?

The Protheans are nothing like the Forerunners. Jeez, just when I thought I've seen the last of ME fans saying that Protheans = Forerunners, I get hit in the face yet again.

  • 03.20.2012 2:23 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: grey101
How about you just read the forerunner novels? and if anything Bioware ripped the protheans off the Forerunners since they were exactly like that.


Exactly? Okay then, where in Mass Effect have the Protheans crammed a 2 AU megastructure into an alternate dimension? Or built huge megastructures that make the Citadel look small?

The Protheans are nothing like the Forerunners. Jeez, just when I thought I've seen the last of ME fans saying that Protheans = Forerunners, I get hit in the face yet again.

I am fairly sure that Grey was referring to their culture and their character. Everyone thought they were the first super-advanced society who were nice and peaceful, but in reality they were preceded by several other civilizations and were not very peaceful.

  • 03.20.2012 3:13 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: Watch Man206
Ok, after reading up through the second page i had to stop from the confusion....but one main question....Since when did everyone learn that the Forrunner's were Dicks? Have not the books been out for a couple of years now?? or are these different books?

Several new books came out. If you want to learn of them, pick up Cryptum and Primordium. The Forerunners are the main characters.

  • 03.20.2012 3:15 PM PDT


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: grey101
How about you just read the forerunner novels? and if anything Bioware ripped the protheans off the Forerunners since they were exactly like that.


Exactly? Okay then, where in Mass Effect have the Protheans crammed a 2 AU megastructure into an alternate dimension? Or built huge megastructures that make the Citadel look small?

The Protheans are nothing like the Forerunners. Jeez, just when I thought I've seen the last of ME fans saying that Protheans = Forerunners, I get hit in the face yet again.


What XD said. The meassure of a man's--or civilization's--worth is not in the question of who has the biggest stick.

  • 03.20.2012 3:41 PM PDT

Citizens of Me! The cruelty of the old Pharaoh is a thing of the past. Let a whole new wave of cruelty wash over this lazy land.

Hear the word of Pharaoh. Build unto me a statue of ridiculous proportion. One billion cubits in height......that I might be remembered for all eternity!

And be quick about it!

I'm slightly confused by what the Timeless One said towards the end. Is he a Precursor, is he a Flood form, is he a Flood infected Precursor, or are Precursors and the Flood the same thing? Bahh... I don't know what to think! Someone explain it to me!

I did think Primordium was a great book, though.

  • 03.20.2012 9:52 PM PDT

Don't like my username? It solved world hunger. Don't like my gamertag? It can divide by zero. *INCEPTION FACE*

I think Forerunner AI would be closer to reapers.

  • 03.20.2012 11:33 PM PDT

Don't like my username? It solved world hunger. Don't like my gamertag? It can divide by zero. *INCEPTION FACE*


Posted by: Madmaxepic
I'm slightly confused by what the Timeless One said towards the end. Is he a Precursor, is he a Flood form, is he a Flood infected Precursor, or are Precursors and the Flood the same thing? Bahh... I don't know what to think! Someone explain it to me!

I did think Primordium was a great book, though.


I wish they would explain the story in the game instead of making these games beatable in one playthrough.

  • 03.20.2012 11:34 PM PDT

Don't like my username? It solved world hunger. Don't like my gamertag? It can divide by zero. *INCEPTION FACE*


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: antonio the bomb
Okay guys, I just came back from the beach. Wow didn't expect so many replies, discussions and arguments. So the precursors are like the covenant. And the flood tests life in the galaxy to see who's worthy of the mantle? But I thought the flood just consumes any galaxy they find. Why did they change it?


Who says they changed it? We never had the full story up until now and only had assumptions to work with, just like we thought the Forerunners were pretty much universal angels up until now.


Yeah, we were always under the impression that they were the selfless saviors of the Universe, but now we know they were the dicks of the Halo universe.


This leads to my theory that the Chief will be pursued by the last precursor and the forerunners to join their side while ONI may be granted ties to one as well. I imagine that it isn't going to be clear cut for Chief and manipulation will take place.

[Edited on 03.20.2012 11:59 PM PDT]

  • 03.20.2012 11:58 PM PDT

"Dude, what are you doing right now?"
"Uhh... Heh, my mom."
"Dude... What?"

Mass Effect came out after the Halo franchise started.


Ergo, Bioware made the Reapers like the Flood.

  • 03.21.2012 12:41 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: grey101
How about you just read the forerunner novels? and if anything Bioware ripped the protheans off the Forerunners since they were exactly like that.


Exactly? Okay then, where in Mass Effect have the Protheans crammed a 2 AU megastructure into an alternate dimension? Or built huge megastructures that make the Citadel look small?

The Protheans are nothing like the Forerunners. Jeez, just when I thought I've seen the last of ME fans saying that Protheans = Forerunners, I get hit in the face yet again.


I was talking about mind-wise numbskull and you know it.

The protheans controlled the entire galaxy by enslaving other races and wiping out those that didn't follow them.
The protheans were to uplift younger races.


The forerunners did both, though i doubt they really controlled the entire galaxy.


And i am a halo fan more than a ME Fan.

  • 03.21.2012 6:31 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: grey101
How about you just read the forerunner novels? and if anything Bioware ripped the protheans off the Forerunners since they were exactly like that.


To be completely fair, Bioware didn't rip anything off of Halo. These kinds of story elements have been present WAY before Halo was even a thought in someone's mind.

It's a popular theme in sci-fi, which is why it's in so many stories.

  • 03.21.2012 7:18 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: grey101
How about you just read the forerunner novels? and if anything Bioware ripped the protheans off the Forerunners since they were exactly like that.


To be completely fair, Bioware didn't rip anything off of Halo. These kinds of story elements have been present WAY before Halo was even a thought in someone's mind.

It's a popular theme in sci-fi, which is why it's in so many stories.


Anything as in absolutely nothing?

You might want to be sure of that statement because the protheans and the Forerunners seem a lot alike right now.

A Good chunk of the prothean culture can be compared to the forerunners and if they end up having a caste system with the actual prothean race then i will be sure of it.

  • 03.21.2012 7:23 AM PDT

Ad Infinitum


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Atomic Tea

Posted by: grey101
How about you just read the forerunner novels? and if anything Bioware ripped the protheans off the Forerunners since they were exactly like that.


To be completely fair, Bioware didn't rip anything off of Halo. These kinds of story elements have been present WAY before Halo was even a thought in someone's mind.

It's a popular theme in sci-fi, which is why it's in so many stories.


Anything as in absolutely nothing?

You might want to be sure of that statement because the protheans and the Forerunners seem a lot alike right now.

A Good chunk of the prothean culture can be compared to the forerunners and if they end up having a caste system with the actual prothean race then i will be sure of it.

If Bioware ripped off of Halo, then Halo ripped off of other stories. If you're honestly saying that ideas like The Flood, The Precursor's and the Forerunners are all original...then you're deluding yourself.

Ideas like The Flood, The Reapers, and The Precursors are all elements of Lovecraftian horror.

I'm not defending Bioware or Bungie or whatever, I'm just saying that it's unfair to say that Bioware looked at Halo and then copied its elements in order to make Mass Effect. If that's the case, then Halo is equally guilty. You shouldn't be so quick to point out the flaws of Mass Effect without examining the flaws of Halo.

  • 03.21.2012 7:33 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

First off i am not so stupid to assume all of halo's elements are original i wrote a thread showing how much they got from Starhammer and i am aware of the dozens of material halo is formed from. Like ringworld for starters.

I understand that it is hard to be original but something shouldn't be the exact same from another universe.


Huh? The flood was based of "The Vang" in starhammer and i see no connection between the precursors and anything in lovecraft. I am aware of the references in mass effect on star craft but no so much halo.

[Edited on 03.21.2012 7:44 AM PDT]

  • 03.21.2012 7:42 AM PDT
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No...Flood test participants.

Reapers are just anti-living.

  • 03.21.2012 9:18 AM PDT

O hai

Jeez, people are ignorant these days

  • 03.21.2012 9:30 AM PDT

Didact's Reprisal -
Now is the time of our unworlding
One final effort is all that remains
And I am not afraid
We shall fulfill our promise
We fight for the grace of the Mantle
And this time none of you will be left behind


Posted by: Poy Poy
No...Flood test participants.

Reapers are just anti-living.

You're adding to the misinformation. Reapers also avoided lesser civilized races. Humans, asari, turians, etc., were present at the last reaper event, and were avoided.


Could someone just make a new topic with all the facts presented? Then we can base our opinions off those; amazing!

[Edited on 03.21.2012 1:28 PM PDT]

  • 03.21.2012 1:26 PM PDT

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