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This topic has moved here: Subject: Bigger, Better Firefight (LONG READ)
  • Subject: Bigger, Better Firefight (LONG READ)
Subject: Bigger, Better Firefight (LONG READ)

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)

ODST Firefight is largely better than Reach's. What killed Reach's firefight was Arcadefight and Commendations. I think if the ODST feel was added back to Halo 4's firefight, it would be even more fun than Reach's or ODST's. Maybe have commendations, but with no extra reward of Cr or XP or whatever from them. Have a little variety in gametypes, Gruntpocalypse or Sniperfight, but no Rocketfight or Arcadefight. Make firefight grounded and believeable, but still loads of fun.

I was playing 4-player ODST FF at a friend's house on Lost Platoon, when I realized what a blast this was. Driving around in the warthog with a gunner on the back and a Splaser+ PP guy in the passenger seat just can't be beat (We also had one guy near where you entrance in Campaign with the sniper). I was sad that this survival-type of experience wasn't in Reach. After 5 sets, we finally ended the game. The warthog and choppers were great and all, but wouldn't it be cooler if we had something bigger and badder?

This is when I had my idea. For Halo 4, I want bigger firefight options. I want it to be like multiplayer, small maps and big. I want small maps like Crater that are ideal for solo or 2 person FF. I want midsized maps that work best for 2-4 players. And I want 1 or 2 options for what would basically be "Big Team Firefight". A team of 5 or 6 on a big map.

===MAP AND HUMAN DEFENSE===
I'm trying to create a highly tactical experience where every team member and every weapon is important to the survivors, with FF becoming exponentially harder with each member they lose. Starting weapons would be a BR-type weapon and a Silenced SMG- type weapon. The map itself would be something like Lost Platoon, Outpost, or Unearthed, but with elements of Beachhead and the skybridge there too. I'm thinking of a BIG map here, with lots of small outlying strongholds and structures that add complexity and interest to the map. There would be 2 sniper rifles close-ish to the spawn, with more ammo farther away from the spawn, which would lead to some tough choices (Stay here, be safe, or go out there for more ammo, risk dying.) 1 rocket launcher medium-distance from the spawn (so that it's retrieveable, but only really at the calm at the end of a wave or round. 4 or so extra rockets could be found by the spawn. A laser would be in the spawn, and multiple machine gun turrets could be found facing away from the base at different levels and angles.

One of my favorite things about the Anniversary FF map Installation 04 is the Pelican drop-offs. I thought about this, and came up with what I think is a perfect adaptation of this into Halo 4 FF. Pelicans come after every round, dropping off new weapons and marines (Friendly AI could be toggled on or off in the menu, depends on if you want them or not). It would also drop off a warthog for use. After every set, a Scorpion tank would be dropped off additionally. The side seats would be rideable, so that theoretically you could have a powerhouse of a tank loaded with snipers, rocket men, lasers, grenadiers, whatever you wanted.

I know what you're thinking, a Scorpion in FF simply can't work. Pople would fight over it. The Scorpion in this role would become more of a team-oriented vehicle instead of a one-man stat-whore machine it is in Reach. It would be imperative to keep the Scorpion in good condition to survive through the later sets. Make it scale in difficulty, so that on Easy teams can still go forever without touching the tank, but on Legendary, it's absolutely vital to utilize the Scorpion to its fullest.

===ENEMIES===

1. Infantry

Because of the huge amount of firepower that the defenders would have, the Covenant assault would have to be scaled up as well. Instead of the typical wave being around 25 enemies like in ODST and Reach, waves would be more like 35-40. Opening waves could consist of Elites, Jackals, and Grunts, with middle waves consisting of tougher enemies like Brute Captains equipped with Carbines and Brute Shots. Jackal snipers would make themselves known by sniping from ridiculous distances away, to where only the Sniper rifle can take them out. Again, this puts emphasis on keeping at least one team-member with a sniper rifle, ready to combat the long-range threat. 3rd and 4th waves could be any combination of Drones, Hunters, Brute Chieftains, Jetpack Elites, FRG grunts, etc. Boss waves would consist mainly of vehicles (discussed below), but they could include Elite Zealots, Elite Heretics, and maybe more Brute Chieftains. This boss wave would be primarily centered around vehicles though.

2. Vehicles

Given the abundance of power weapons, there would need to be plenty of Covenant vehicles to counter them. Early waves in earlier rounds would be supported by 2 or 3 ghosts/choppers, dropped by phantoms. Middle rounds would consist of aforementioned infantry supported by Wraiths (again, dropped by Phantoms) and banshees that fly in all through waves 2-4. These banshees would not be the same FF banshees in ODST's Windward and Reach's Holdout, which just fly around and occasionally shoot a few plasma bolts the player's way. These banshees would boost, flip to avoid fire, make aggressive strafing runs, and sometimes use the banshee bomb. They would flip most of the time (not all) to shake rockets, not 99% of the time like Reach banshees. The wraiths would be like Alpha Site Wraiths, with increasing accuracy on the player until he moves. Some of them would hang back and mortar fire like past FF Wraiths, some would aggressively rush the main base area or the Scorpion and be a bigger threat. This would keep players on their toes, and necessitate a competent Scorpion driver and teammates who called out enemies.

Boss waves' vehicles would consist of banshees similar to a few on Holdout. Occasionally, banshees come screaming over the roof of the facility and crash into the landing pad, exploding violently. It's an AI glitch, but it's actually pretty deadly. Suicide banshees would be an element of this new FF experience. They would come from out of the distance, and make a beeline for defenders, prioritizing the Scorpion, then the Warthog, then players on the ground. This would add a new element to firefight, a of drop-everything-and-put-fire-on-that-incoming-banshee element. Accompanying the suicide banshees would be 2 or 3 of the aforementioned "passive Wraiths". Extra threats like snipers and vehicles wouldn't need to be destroyed to advance to the next wave, but they would need to be taken out to end the round.

Normally, Phantoms would arrive to drop troops/vehicles off, provide a little cover fire while they did so, so and leave. Phantoms of the first round of each set would take this behavior. Phantoms of the second round would drop their troops and/or vehicles off, hover around for 30-60 seconds, and then make their exit. These phantoms could be destroyed, but only with coordinated fire of the Scorpion and other members of the team using weapons like rockets and lasers. They would not have to be destroyed, as they would leave after a short time, but if ammo and positioning provided, they could be taken out for a sizeable point bonus. Phantoms of the third round would be far more pesky. They would drop their troops, and then migrate slowly to above the players' base, putting down cover fire the whole time. These phantoms would stay for as long as 3 minutes, shifting around the battlefield for new angles to attack the defenders from. They would not have to be destroyed, but it would be far easier to wreck them than to wait for them to leave.

===BONUS ROUND===

Since FF has been around, the bonus round has always been grunts. The bonus round in this game mode would also be grunts, supported by a few passive banshees like past Halo games' 'shees. 25-40 grunts on the battlefield at a time. 90 seconds of chaos. Bonus life thresholds obviously much higher than 2000 points, with the potential for multi-kills and vehicles around.

===SCARAB ROUND===

After every 2 sets completed, there would be a special, extra hard round. A scarab would drop from the sky, banshees would come in, and phantoms would drop off a few choppers for more support. The defenders would have to, you guessed it, destroy the scarab. The Scarab itself would not be very tough (It'd be something like a Halo 3 Scarab), but when combined with the threat of banshees looming above and choppers on the ground below, it'd cause a lot of stress on the players. If the tank was still intact, the Scarab would be a big threat to it. After the scarab was destroyed, the usual post-round and set phantoms would arrive, dropping off ammo, health, new weapons, a new hog, and a shiny new tank.

===SKULLS===

*The skulls from the previous rounds would remain active until the beginning of a new set.

Round skulls

1. Tough Luck
2. Catch
3. Fog (Black eye wouldn't work with this big a map.

Set skulls (*For set 3 and onward,only one of Tilt and Mythic would be on, for example Set 4 would be Famine and Mythic, but not Tilt)

1. None
2. Famine
3. Tilt
4. Mythic
5. Tilt
6. Mythic
7. Tilt
8. and onwards- Mythic

This would be my dream Firefight. if you managed to read all that then I congratulate you. Thoughts anyone?

  • 03.26.2012 2:27 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.

Nice ideas, I advise you take this to Waypoint. I like the vehicular combat, but would we get to hijack the wraiths and banshees?

Also I think having AA wraiths would be cool. Personally I think a scarab would be a little bit OTT, but that's just my opinion.

One thing I would love for firefight is the ability to create permanent weapon caches without them despawning. It would be cool to just go out and collect some covenant weapons and have a place to dump them for future use,

  • 03.26.2012 2:53 PM PDT

#1 Legendary ODST Firefight Highscore

[UNINTELLIGIBLE > INSUBORDINATION(?)]

I love this idea.

The thing that made Reach firefight lame was that they killed highscores and leader boards, by adding TOO much customization and varying game types.

  • 03.26.2012 4:39 PM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)


Posted by: Mark V guy
Nice ideas, I advise you take this to Waypoint. I like the vehicular combat, but would we get to hijack the wraiths and banshees?

Also I think having AA wraiths would be cool. Personally I think a scarab would be a little bit OTT, but that's just my opinion.

One thing I would love for firefight is the ability to create permanent weapon caches without them despawning. It would be cool to just go out and collect some covenant weapons and have a place to dump them for future use,


Thanks. As for hijacking, banshees would be unjackable, and wraiths would be boardable only to punch or plant grenade, you couldn't pilot them.

As for the weapons, with a new and improved engine (which would be necessary for all this in the first place), there could be a sort of "hill" where weapons could be placed that would never despawn. All weapons outside the hill would follow the same "dissappear after 3 or so minutes unless you keep picking them up" mechanic. Nice idea.

[Edited on 03.26.2012 6:24 PM PDT]

  • 03.26.2012 6:22 PM PDT

These are not the informations you are looking for. Unless you're looking for my informations.

Check us out. Registration is not open, so please contact me or another member of the site if you would like to consider joining.

What you're talking about seems very improbable. Larger maps and more players would require a netcode overhaul, and it would result in a lot of lag if they even managed to pull that off. The amount of enemies and their vehicles that you suggested would also need balancing if there were to be that many of them, for it would be almost impossible to get past a set with what you've suggested on even a large map with others. Plus they would need scripting overhaul, and with that many vehicles, they all have to be scripted to go where need and work properly. I don't see how the scarab could ever work, but smaller vehicles yes. The kamikaze banshee thing is cool though, and this is a neat suggestion. I'd love for this to happen, but in all honesty it wouldn't. Reality sucks and so do I, I know.

  • 03.26.2012 7:40 PM PDT

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/Career/HaloReach/ServiceRecord#/Ca mpaign

All you need to know. Well actually, you should also know.. I'm Russian.

I like most of your ideas, but Scarabs and Scorpions just seem to large scale for Firefight, I prefer the huge battles in campaign. Firefight should be more like a horde of enemies charging your position, a tidal wave of alien flesh collapsing over you as you expend clip after clip into them. Also since there will be a new enemy in Halo 4, I think 343i should emfisize that only Covenant will apear in Firefight, besides there will be a lot of new Forerunner tech and weapons for FF.

  • 03.26.2012 9:13 PM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)


Posted by: Insane Monx
What you're talking about seems very improbable. Larger maps and more players would require a netcode overhaul, and it would result in a lot of lag if they even managed to pull that off. The amount of enemies and their vehicles that you suggested would also need balancing if there were to be that many of them, for it would be almost impossible to get past a set with what you've suggested on even a large map with others. Plus they would need scripting overhaul, and with that many vehicles, they all have to be scripted to go where need and work properly. I don't see how the scarab could ever work, but smaller vehicles yes. The kamikaze banshee thing is cool though, and this is a neat suggestion. I'd love for this to happen, but in all honesty it wouldn't. Reality sucks and so do I, I know.


I agree that it's unlikely, but maybe not as far off as you make it out to be. With a new streamlined engine, the amount of players/enemies/particles/damage/explosions could actually work with minimal lag (like Reach's is today). Balancing issues could be solved by simply adding more sniper ammo or subtracting a Wraith. The vehicles wouldn't be entirely scripted, they would have AI like vehicles in Reach FF. I agree that a hugely smarter AI would be necessary to get all the vehicles to work in conjuction and especially to mimic more aggressive human players like the Wraith that advances or the Banshee that actually attacks. We probably wouldn't see anything like this for Halo 4, but for Halo 5 on a new machine with improved internals, it could definitely happen.

EDIT: And yeah, I'll agree that the Scarab is a bit of a stretch. Probably couldn't happen. But just think how epic fighting them in campaign was! Think of fighting a scarab+ its support on Heroic with a bunch of skulls on in a flaming tank as the last man standing.

[Edited on 03.26.2012 9:17 PM PDT]

  • 03.26.2012 9:16 PM PDT

Halo 2 > Halo 3 > Halo 3 ODST > Halo Reach > Halo CE

Based on campaigns.

Cool. Although I think that wraiths should be drivable. I mean, you get scorpions, why not wraiths for us wraith fans? :(

  • 03.27.2012 12:12 AM PDT

This is a Reach account that I created the day they announced his name in a bnet weekly update. Any stats regarding ODST or Halo 3 are irrelevant. Also, Halo CE master race. Halo 1 > other halo games > other games.

Account Status: Silver :(

As long as it isn't like Halo Reach. They really ruined firefight in Reach.

I would prefer to fight the flood, and have an economy system where you can buy things like 30 second invis, overshield, weapons, ect.

[Edited on 03.27.2012 2:33 AM PDT]

  • 03.27.2012 2:31 AM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)


Posted by: NOBLE SlX
As long as it isn't like Halo Reach. They really ruined firefight in Reach.

I would prefer to fight the flood, and have an economy system where you can buy things like 30 second invis, overshield, weapons, ect.


What do you think this is, COD?

  • 03.27.2012 7:29 AM PDT

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cool idea i like and yeah you could take it to waypoint

[Edited on 03.27.2012 9:13 AM PDT]

  • 03.27.2012 9:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: MisguidedDrake4
Because of the huge amount of firepower that the defenders would have, the Covenant assault would have to be scaled up as well. Instead of the typical wave being around 25 enemies like in ODST and Reach, waves would be more like 35-40.
Definitely. Halo has potential for greater AI numbers.

Posted by: MisguidedDrake4
===SCARAB ROUND===
I'd love for this.

Posted by: MisguidedDrake4

With a new streamlined engine, the amount of players/enemies/particles/damage/explosions could actually work with minimal lag (like Reach's is today).
Hopefully, they find other ways to vent the problem rather than reducing the draw distance and deleting dead bodies and especially deleting dropped weapons. This is a large map you're talking about after all.

[Edited on 03.27.2012 10:24 AM PDT]

  • 03.27.2012 10:18 AM PDT
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You must confront your inabilities
You must adjust to your capabilities

The main differences between reach and odst firefight were vehicles, and a sense of actually holding down a position against never ending covenent. Reach firefight is just not that fun.

  • 03.27.2012 11:07 AM PDT

Were it so easy...

There are some good ideas here for future FF development, but I play Reach FF more than ODST.

I played with a coop partner a while back trying for an ODST 200K FF map achievement. We made some mistakes, and lost the game a little short of 200k. Disappointed, my partner said that hour was a waste. That sentiment isn't there when playing Reach FF. The CR, commendations, and daily challenges keep people coming back to Reach FF. This is why ODST FF isn't as popular as Reach - in my opinion.

I've completed a couple of the ODST FF 200K achievements solo. Easier to do well with good coop partners, but also easier to lose if they aren't. I've found Chasm Ten to be the most fun map of either game.



[Edited on 03.27.2012 1:19 PM PDT]

  • 03.27.2012 1:15 PM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)

I'll agree with you on the fact that I play more Reach FF than ODST too. 8 days playtime on Reach as opposed to under 1 on ODST. ODST is (IMO) the better experience though, but yes, the commendations, challenges, and medals keep people coming back to Reach.

I've honestly never tried Chasm Ten, but I'll be sure to do so now. If you wanted to partner up and get some 200ks, I'd be happy to.

  • 03.27.2012 5:13 PM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)

I'll agree on the neverending covenant. I think they should have kept making it harder past set 4 or whatever which is when you start getting the same. Start taking away HUD elements or VISR, then disable vehicle use, then make less damage done, etc.

  • 03.28.2012 8:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: MisguidedDrake4
then make less damage done
Nooooo!! We don't need to defile ODST with Reach's false difficulty. I like having powerful yet balanced weapons.

  • 03.29.2012 3:10 AM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)


Posted by: Sliding Ghost

Posted by: MisguidedDrake4
then make less damage done
Nooooo!! We don't need to defile ODST with Reach's false difficulty. I like having powerful yet balanced weapons.


Eh, you're right I guess, but you get the idea. Notice how after set 4 or 5 the difficulty just stays the same because there are no more skulls? I think it should keep getting harder.

  • 03.29.2012 8:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: MisguidedDrake4

Posted by: Sliding Ghost

Posted by: MisguidedDrake4
then make less damage done
Nooooo!! We don't need to defile ODST with Reach's false difficulty. I like having powerful yet balanced weapons.


Eh, you're right I guess, but you get the idea. Notice how after set 4 or 5 the difficulty just stays the same because there are no more skulls? I think it should keep getting harder.
Then it needs to be done the right way. I think a skull like Angry should make a reappearance. It affected enemy rof. That alone would be enough to make firefight hell.

Another thing that could add to the experience is burst duration modification. CE Goldies were boss AI with their plasma rifle. Often, they ended up having an overheated plasma rifle.

  • 03.30.2012 5:00 PM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Then it needs to be done the right way. I think a skull like Angry should make a reappearance. It affected enemy rof. That alone would be enough to make firefight hell.

Another thing that could add to the experience is burst duration modification. CE Goldies were boss AI with their plasma rifle. Often, they ended up having an overheated plasma rifle.


Yeah, I remember Angry. What was the skull that made enemies always know where you were (even if you covered and came out a different spot)?

  • 03.30.2012 8:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: MisguidedDrake4

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
Then it needs to be done the right way. I think a skull like Angry should make a reappearance. It affected enemy rof. That alone would be enough to make firefight hell.

Another thing that could add to the experience is burst duration modification. CE Goldies were boss AI with their plasma rifle. Often, they ended up having an overheated plasma rifle.


Yeah, I remember Angry. What was the skull that made enemies always know where you were (even if you covered and came out a different spot)?
I don't believe it had an official name but it's commonly called Armory. Personally, I liked the skull (Assassins was pure evil though). I think if they tweaked it a little, it could make combat quite interesting.

[Edited on 03.31.2012 3:26 AM PDT]

  • 03.31.2012 3:26 AM PDT

"To me, a nice triple kill with the sniper is infinitely more impressive than any Living Dead Killionaire"

Does flaming people on forums count as an esport?

I'm a commendation/achievement/statistics freak.

-David (Drake)


Posted by: Sliding Ghost
I don't believe it had an official name but it's commonly called Armory. Personally, I liked the skull (Assassins was pure evil though). I think if they tweaked it a little, it could make combat quite interesting.


Maybe put Assassins on but not completely? Like partial camo? Who knows.

  • 03.31.2012 9:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: MisguidedDrake4

Posted by: Sliding Ghost
I don't believe it had an official name but it's commonly called Armory. Personally, I liked the skull (Assassins was pure evil though). I think if they tweaked it a little, it could make combat quite interesting.


Maybe put Assassins on but not completely? Like partial camo? Who knows.
Or perhaps make the camo fluctuate like Engineer overshields do in Reach?

  • 03.31.2012 9:46 AM PDT