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Subject: Halo Primordium Confusion
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I just read the book a couple days ago and I just wanted a few questions clarified.

Were all Precursors Graveminds?
How is the Librarian still alive?

  • 03.26.2012 9:10 PM PDT

Posted by: Commander GX
Bungie.Match.com: Our Johnson knows what the ladies like.


Posted by: krnlcheese
I just read the book a couple days ago and I just wanted a few questions clarified.

Were all Precursors Graveminds?
How is the Librarian still alive?


1. We don't know.

2. Forerunners are pretty much immortal.

  • 03.26.2012 9:26 PM PDT
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But wasn't it established earlier that the Librarian and the Didactic were killed when the ring fired.
Posted by: M94 Mushroom Man

Posted by: krnlcheese
I just read the book a couple days ago and I just wanted a few questions clarified.

Were all Precursors Graveminds?
How is the Librarian still alive?


1. We don't know.

2. Forerunners are pretty much immortal.

  • 03.26.2012 11:56 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The book answers these questions.


1. No, seeing as the primordial probably isn't a Gravemind just an infected precursor or creation.

2. The Paragraph implies she is alive genetically if you actually read it.

  • 03.27.2012 5:30 AM PDT

If good looks could kill, I'd be a weapon of mass destruction.

Q: Hey, what did Hitler say to the black jew?
A: Get to the back of the oven.


Posted by: grey101
The book answers these questions.


1. No, seeing as the primordial probably isn't a Gravemind just an infected precursor or creation.

2. The Paragraph implies she is alive genetically if you actually read it.


1. I thought it was established that the primordial probably is a gravemind.

2. I didn't see any implications of how or in what kind of form she lives, but just the fact that she's alive.

  • 03.27.2012 5:57 AM PDT

The Gorilla. THAT'S what got me most confused.

  • 03.27.2012 10:43 AM PDT

maybe the real didact somehow escaped and rescued her before the halo array went off

and yes the primordial is a gravemind although it probably was made of/created by precursors

[Edited on 03.27.2012 3:00 PM PDT]

  • 03.27.2012 2:57 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Leaf Dragoon
maybe the real didact somehow escaped and rescued her before the halo array went off


Impossible.

  • 03.27.2012 3:10 PM PDT

maybe the master builder kept him alive so he could force the librarian to do whatever he wanted.

  • 03.27.2012 3:23 PM PDT

"Living in the past is a luxury none of us can afford..."
"I know what the ladies like..."


Posted by: krnlcheese
I just read the book a couple days ago and I just wanted a few questions clarified.

Were all Precursors Graveminds?
How is the Librarian still alive?


1. It is implied in the book that the Captive was a coalition of multiple parts. We can deduce that not all Precursors are Graveminds, however, because the Captive states at one point that he is the last of "this kind." If he was indeed the last of the Graveminds then we would not see anymore graveminds later on. It is heavily implied that the Captive was a mass of Precursors joined together into a gravemind, and also all that remained of the Precursors. Get it? lol It might be kind of confusing. Basically the Captive is the last gravemind composed purely of Precursor "parts."

2. Someone here said that the librarian is alive through a genetic imprint but that can't be right. If that were true then it would mean that Guilty Spark knows how to bring people back from an imprint and we know that he doesn't since he needs the Librarian to bring his friends back. My theory is that she is somehow conserved in a Slip Space bubble like the Spartans from Onyx. Or maybe she was, in fact, conserved through a genetic imprint like the Didact was. Not like Chakas, who had a consciousness embedded in him, but like Bornstellar, who was completely taken over by the Didact's personality.

  • 03.27.2012 4:54 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: bagan bodies 2

Posted by: grey101
The book answers these questions.


1. No, seeing as the primordial probably isn't a Gravemind just an infected precursor or creation.

2. The Paragraph implies she is alive genetically if you actually read it.


1. I thought it was established that the primordial probably is a gravemind.

2. I didn't see any implications of how or in what kind of form she lives, but just the fact that she's alive.


Yea, A Gravemind that has legs,eyes, color changing skin and chatters like an insect. That sounds sooo much like a gravemind, not to mention he flies around on a disc and has little arms.

It clearly said there was no difference between Precursors and the flood then said it was the last of its kind, thus not a gravemind.

How about you read that paragraph again.

  • 03.28.2012 7:00 AM PDT

If good looks could kill, I'd be a weapon of mass destruction.

Q: Hey, what did Hitler say to the black jew?
A: Get to the back of the oven.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: bagan bodies 2

Posted by: grey101
The book answers these questions.


1. No, seeing as the primordial probably isn't a Gravemind just an infected precursor or creation.

2. The Paragraph implies she is alive genetically if you actually read it.


1. I thought it was established that the primordial probably is a gravemind.

2. I didn't see any implications of how or in what kind of form she lives, but just the fact that she's alive.


Yea, A Gravemind that has legs,eyes, color changing skin and chatters like an insect. That sounds sooo much like a gravemind, not to mention he flies around on a disc and has little arms.

It clearly said there was no difference between Precursors and the flood then said it was the last of its kind, thus not a gravemind.

How about you read that paragraph again.


I'm going to have to paraphrase here:

"Back in the city, Forthencho had called it a Gravemind...Attached to my old spirits memories was a half-awareness that the Primordial itself had been several creatures joined together..."

"I see now that you are nothing more than a Gravemind, a mash up of old victims infected by the flood..."

Those are just some of the quotes.

Just because we've seen one gravemind, doesn't mean we've seen them all. And this one was: Ancient, made of Precursors or at least very ancient species (maybe even ancient forerunners as well?), and possibly further evolved (referring to the fact that Frankie himself said Graveminds can evolve further).

And the relationship between the flood and precursors is never elaborated on. The nature of the relationship has yet to be revealed.

Also, it could be:

A: Lying
B: Referring to itself which also leads to:
1: that it in itself is made of precursors so there is no difference, and also the "we" is the fact that it's made up of multiple bodies
C: Referencing a fact yet to be revealed, such as the possibility that Precursors willingly infected themselves with the flood, or that the flood is somehow in all of us or literally that the Flood are the Precursors etc use your imagination


It perhaps was the last of the graveminds made up of Precursors.


There are seriously so many possibilities, you really need to keep your mind open.

  • 03.28.2012 1:29 PM PDT


Posted by: bagan bodies 2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: bagan bodies 2

Posted by: grey101
The book answers these questions.


1. No, seeing as the primordial probably isn't a Gravemind just an infected precursor or creation.

2. The Paragraph implies she is alive genetically if you actually read it.


1. I thought it was established that the primordial probably is a gravemind.

2. I didn't see any implications of how or in what kind of form she lives, but just the fact that she's alive.


Yea, A Gravemind that has legs,eyes, color changing skin and chatters like an insect. That sounds sooo much like a gravemind, not to mention he flies around on a disc and has little arms.

It clearly said there was no difference between Precursors and the flood then said it was the last of its kind, thus not a gravemind.

How about you read that paragraph again.


I'm going to have to paraphrase here:

"Back in the city, Forthencho had called it a Gravemind...Attached to my old spirits memories was a half-awareness that the Primordial itself had been several creatures joined together..."

"I see now that you are nothing more than a Gravemind, a mash up of old victims infected by the flood..."

Those are just some of the quotes.

Just because we've seen one gravemind, doesn't mean we've seen them all. And this one was: Ancient, made of Precursors or at least very ancient species (maybe even ancient forerunners as well?), and possibly further evolved (referring to the fact that Frankie himself said Graveminds can evolve further).

And that he said Primordium discusses this "super Gravemind."

And the relationship between the flood and precursors is never elaborated on. The nature of the relationship has yet to be revealed.

Also, it could be:

A: Lying
B: Referring to itself which also leads to:
1: that it in itself is made of precursors so there is no difference, and also the "we" is the fact that it's made up of multiple bodies
C: Referencing a fact yet to be revealed, such as the possibility that Precursors willingly infected themselves with the flood, or that the flood is somehow in all of us or literally that the Flood are the Precursors etc use your imagination


It perhaps was the last of the graveminds made up of Precursors.


There are seriously so many possibilities, you really need to keep your mind open.



I still believe that the Primordial was composed of a Precursor race, since it seems evident that the Precursors were a collection rather then just one. Perhaps there was some disagreement/civil war amongst the Precursors that lead to some becoming Graveminds and others fleeing.

I mean for all we know, the Graveminds are a Precursor client race, just one of many.

[Edited on 03.28.2012 2:24 PM PDT]

  • 03.28.2012 2:24 PM PDT

From what I took from the book, the Precursors created an infection to wipe out the Forunners. But then the Forunners defeated the Precursors so this Infection was lost to time (Until humans found it much later.) So I would think that the Precursor infected himself in the hope of one day getting his revenge on the forunners.

Also, I was under the impression that the Halo Array destroyed all life within a certain range of the galactic center. If that's the case, then the Librarian could of very well went to a far distant facility outside of the range of the effects of the halo array.

  • 03.28.2012 4:01 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Nick AT7730
If that's the case, then the Librarian could of very well went to a far distant facility outside of the range of the effects of the halo array.


Except she was on Earth.

  • 03.28.2012 4:02 PM PDT

Ah, fair enough.

  • 03.28.2012 4:04 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: bagan bodies 2

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: bagan bodies 2

Posted by: grey101
The book answers these questions.


1. No, seeing as the primordial probably isn't a Gravemind just an infected precursor or creation.

2. The Paragraph implies she is alive genetically if you actually read it.


1. I thought it was established that the primordial probably is a gravemind.

2. I didn't see any implications of how or in what kind of form she lives, but just the fact that she's alive.


Yea, A Gravemind that has legs,eyes, color changing skin and chatters like an insect. That sounds sooo much like a gravemind, not to mention he flies around on a disc and has little arms.

It clearly said there was no difference between Precursors and the flood then said it was the last of its kind, thus not a gravemind.

How about you read that paragraph again.


I'm going to have to paraphrase here:

"Back in the city, Forthencho had called it a Gravemind...Attached to my old spirits memories was a half-awareness that the Primordial itself had been several creatures joined together..."

"I see now that you are nothing more than a Gravemind, a mash up of old victims infected by the flood..."

Those are just some of the quotes.

Just because we've seen one gravemind, doesn't mean we've seen them all. And this one was: Ancient, made of Precursors or at least very ancient species (maybe even ancient forerunners as well?), and possibly further evolved (referring to the fact that Frankie himself said Graveminds can evolve further).

And the relationship between the flood and precursors is never elaborated on. The nature of the relationship has yet to be revealed.

Also, it could be:

A: Lying
B: Referring to itself which also leads to:
1: that it in itself is made of precursors so there is no difference, and also the "we" is the fact that it's made up of multiple bodies
C: Referencing a fact yet to be revealed, such as the possibility that Precursors willingly infected themselves with the flood, or that the flood is somehow in all of us or literally that the Flood are the Precursors etc use your imagination


It perhaps was the last of the graveminds made up of Precursors.


There are seriously so many possibilities, you really need to keep your mind open.




We have seen Several Graveminds, none of them looked or acted like the primordial.

I Didn't even bother reading most of your post because the book clearly shows that Forethencho thinks its apart of the flood and needs to be destroyed while Yprin "Logically" states that they found the Primordial long after the flood attacked them and there was no way for it to be directly involved in that due to its harsh imprisonment.

Not To mention It tells both The Didact and Humans it is a precursor yet they don't believe it because they couldn't fathom their Creators being something as such. Which sounds familiar with people doing that to the forerunners.

So i will repeat it again; If it was a True Gravemind it wouldn't need a disc to help it get around since the Floodsupercell could just create gas bladders or wings and it would use those. It doesn't need Eyes,Arms, or legs nor would it be speaking with clicks and chatters before switching to an ancient forerunner language.
It would also need to keep its biomass up and no Gravemind could resist eating the tens of thousands of humans it was moving around installation 7. Not to mention the Graveminds that were shown in the story (again) looked nor acted nothing like the primordial.

  • 03.29.2012 7:03 AM PDT

can't graveminds telepathically control flood forms from a safe distance so maybe it did have something to do with them attacking humanity.

if the primordial is the original gravemind then isn't it possible that the graveminds evolved into a new form after he died which would explain why he looks so different.



  • 03.29.2012 2:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

It was never elaborated on how the flood is controlled.
The Graveminds in Primordial were described just like the "Proto-Graveminds" A term that is now obsolete as there is no proto-gravemind.

  • 03.29.2012 6:57 PM PDT

then again the primordial could just be a precursor that ancient forerunners tortured and mutated into a hideous freak.

  • 03.30.2012 2:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Are you 8?

  • 03.31.2012 11:59 AM PDT
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Could you explain why proto-graveminds are obsolete?
Posted by: grey101
The Graveminds in Primordial were described just like the "Proto-Graveminds" A term that is now obsolete as there is no proto-gravemind.

  • 03.31.2012 7:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Forthencho stated that a Gravemind could be formed from flood coming together no matter the number. Thus we have seen several Gravemind adaptations.

  • 03.31.2012 8:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: grey101
It would also need to keep its biomass up and no Gravemind could resist eating the tens of thousands of humans it was moving around installation 7. Not to mention the Graveminds that were shown in the story (again) looked nor acted nothing like the primordial.


Didn't the timeless one say that the flood chose not to infect the humans, so why would a gravemind want to infect them if the flood wanted them to inherit the mantle...

  • 03.31.2012 8:05 PM PDT
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So does that mean that Keyes could control the flood as well as the Gravemind on installation 05?
Posted by: grey101
Forthencho stated that a Gravemind could be formed from flood coming together no matter the number. Thus we have seen several Gravemind adaptations.


[Edited on 03.31.2012 8:08 PM PDT]

  • 03.31.2012 8:08 PM PDT

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