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Subject: What the Community Wants

Recently a lot of the new games that I have gotten have instituted a new policy. I am referring to the 'online pass'. New companies have begun to use this as, in my opinion, a way to make more money not a way to help the community. Games such as BF3, Assassins Creed R., and Mass Effect 3 have now began to use these passes. I am sure that the companies might have instated these passes to decrease pirating, but what about us who trade in games, or borrow games, or have family members, why do we have to pay extra money to play online. I understand that servers cost money to run but companies have been running servers for years without this extra income, why start now? I understand that I might have missed something but I am not closed to any new ideas. What I want, as I believe many do, is to get some recognition from Bungie that they would never stoop as low to use online passes. It seems unreasonable to make your already committed fans pay extra.

***Again I might be wrong in some areas, so don't explode just calmly state your theory...***


World

  • 04.04.2012 4:04 PM PDT

I agree, I do not like these new online passes. I mean, prior to these, game companies were able to get by regardless of extra income or not. Beside, don't you love us Bungie?

  • 04.04.2012 4:06 PM PDT

I despise the very idea of it. It really hurts gaming as a hobby.

  • 04.04.2012 4:14 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

And that's the reason why I didn't bought any of those games.

  • 04.04.2012 4:16 PM PDT
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The best victories are the ones the other side didn't expect.

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Posted by: worldwidespace
Recently a lot of the new games that I have gotten have instituted a new policy. I am referring to the 'online pass'. New companies have begun to use this as, in my opinion, a way to make more money not a way to help the community. Games such as BF3, Assassins Creed R., and Mass Effect 3 have now began to use these passes. I am sure that the companies might have instated these passes to decrease pirating, but what about us who trade in games, or borrow games, or have family members, why do we have to pay extra money to play online. I understand that servers cost money to run but companies have been running servers for years without this extra income, why start now? I understand that I might have missed something but I am not closed to any new ideas. What I want, as I believe many do, is to get some recognition from Bungie that they would never stoop as low to use online passes. It seems unreasonable to make your already committed fans pay extra.

***Again I might be wrong in some areas, so don't explode just calmly state your theory...***


World


The example games you listed, for the most part, are EA games. Ubisoft is starting to do this to (AC:R) but their multiplayer is really to die for anyway.

Expect this to get more popular because there are plenty of people who play BF3 and ME3 online.

  • 04.04.2012 4:17 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: Khirna

Posted by: worldwidespace
Recently a lot of the new games that I have gotten have instituted a new policy. I am referring to the 'online pass'. New companies have begun to use this as, in my opinion, a way to make more money not a way to help the community. Games such as BF3, Assassins Creed R., and Mass Effect 3 have now began to use these passes. I am sure that the companies might have instated these passes to decrease pirating, but what about us who trade in games, or borrow games, or have family members, why do we have to pay extra money to play online. I understand that servers cost money to run but companies have been running servers for years without this extra income, why start now? I understand that I might have missed something but I am not closed to any new ideas. What I want, as I believe many do, is to get some recognition from Bungie that they would never stoop as low to use online passes. It seems unreasonable to make your already committed fans pay extra.

***Again I might be wrong in some areas, so don't explode just calmly state your theory...***


World


The example games you listed, for the most part, are EA games. Ubisoft is starting to do this to (AC:R) but their multiplayer is really to die for anyway.

Expect this to get more popular because there are plenty of people who play BF3 and ME3 online.


If Bungie does this, I will not play their MP. Simple as that.

  • 04.04.2012 4:19 PM PDT

We’re flawed because we want so much more. We’re ruined because we get these things and wish for what we had.

I typically stay away from games with online pass's, I mean unless I only play the game for it's campaign. In which case the online pass is null invoid.

[Edited on 04.04.2012 4:23 PM PDT]

  • 04.04.2012 4:23 PM PDT

What's up with all the -blam!-ing negativity?
Stop it.

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Posted by: MasterSin

If Bungie does this, I will not play their MP. Simple as that.
Seriously? Even though the only reason they would is to encourage you to buy the game new, instead of pre-owned.
In order to make sure they actualy get income from the copy of the game.

  • 04.04.2012 4:23 PM PDT

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Posted by: Leprechaun209

Posted by: MasterSin

If Bungie does this, I will not play their MP. Simple as that.
Seriously? Even though the only reason they would is to encourage you to buy the game new, instead of pre-owned.
In order to make sure they actualy get income from the copy of the game.


I don't know if i'd boycott the game exactly, but i understand what this guy is saying. I mean, if you're already paying a subscirption for XBL, why should you pay another fee to actually play the game online? Seems money hungry and greedy.

  • 04.04.2012 4:28 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Senior Heroic Member
  • gamertag: Khirna
  • user homepage:

The best victories are the ones the other side didn't expect.

Yes Costco. I need a 50lb bag...I mean sack of sugar.

I wouldn't worry too much about Bungie adding an online pass. Based on their past sales, they usually sell a bunch of new titles. While I do not have access to the numbers of their new sales, or their overall success as a company, I would think they don't need something like an online pass to generate more revenue.

Again, I cannot stress enough that I don't know Bungie's plans and don't pretend to, but to me, it would seem that Bungie likes its fans more than that.

  • 04.04.2012 4:29 PM PDT

What's up with all the -blam!-ing negativity?
Stop it.

Member of KOTOR

Keer-Meet
God of Destruction


Posted by: FlexedCookie

Posted by: Leprechaun209

Posted by: MasterSin

If Bungie does this, I will not play their MP. Simple as that.
Seriously? Even though the only reason they would is to encourage you to buy the game new, instead of pre-owned.
In order to make sure they actualy get income from the copy of the game.


I don't know if i'd boycott the game exactly, but i understand what this guy is saying. I mean, if you're already paying a subscirption for XBL, why should you pay another fee to actually play the game online? Seems money hungry and greedy.
The whole point of the online pass is they're free with a new version of the game.

Also, gaming companys are in the business of making money.Belive it or not.

  • 04.04.2012 4:35 PM PDT

Join SIP today! We smell good. Promise.


It's like a gigantic snowball, rolling down a mountain, eating kids on the way.


Posted by: Leprechaun209

Posted by: FlexedCookie

Posted by: Leprechaun209

Posted by: MasterSin

If Bungie does this, I will not play their MP. Simple as that.
Seriously? Even though the only reason they would is to encourage you to buy the game new, instead of pre-owned.
In order to make sure they actualy get income from the copy of the game.


I don't know if i'd boycott the game exactly, but i understand what this guy is saying. I mean, if you're already paying a subscirption for XBL, why should you pay another fee to actually play the game online? Seems money hungry and greedy.
The whole point of the online pass is they're free with a new version of the game.

Also, gaming companys are in the business of making money.Belive it or not.


True, but there's a big part of the gaming culture where you share games with your friends. I know i did that a lot growing up, and still do now.
I just think after buying the game, and paying XBL subscription, paying another fee to play online is just overkill and un-needed.
Personally, i will definitely view any gaming company that doesn't incorporate online passes into their online multiplayer in a higher stead than any gaming company that does incorporate online passes.

  • 04.04.2012 4:39 PM PDT

What's up with all the -blam!-ing negativity?
Stop it.

Member of KOTOR

Keer-Meet
God of Destruction


Posted by: FlexedCookie

True, but there's a big part of the gaming culture where you share games with your friends. I know i did that a lot growing up, and still do now.
I just think after buying the game, and paying XBL subscription, paying another fee to play online is just overkill and un-needed.
Personally, i will definitely view any gaming company that doesn't incorporate online passes into their online multiplayer in a higher stead than any gaming company that does incorporate online passes.
I would too, but I can see the reason behind such passes.
Saying you'll boycott a game because the developers need to turn a profit, is a bit silly.

  • 04.04.2012 4:43 PM PDT

Join SIP today! We smell good. Promise.


It's like a gigantic snowball, rolling down a mountain, eating kids on the way.


Posted by: Leprechaun209

Posted by: FlexedCookie

True, but there's a big part of the gaming culture where you share games with your friends. I know i did that a lot growing up, and still do now.
I just think after buying the game, and paying XBL subscription, paying another fee to play online is just overkill and un-needed.
Personally, i will definitely view any gaming company that doesn't incorporate online passes into their online multiplayer in a higher stead than any gaming company that does incorporate online passes.
I would too, but I can see the reason behind such passes.
Saying you'll boycott a game because the developers need to turn a profit, is a bit silly.


I dont think the guy we originally quoted was saying he'll boycott because they want to make a proft. I think he meant he'll boycott because it's more profit.
From the way i see it, companies like EA and Ubisoft are already succesful gaming companies. They don't need to incorporate online passes to make a profit. They already sell tonnes of copies of their games. They already make profit, and quite a bit of it, otherwise they would have gone bust already.

  • 04.04.2012 4:47 PM PDT

What's up with all the -blam!-ing negativity?
Stop it.

Member of KOTOR

Keer-Meet
God of Destruction


Posted by: FlexedCookie

Posted by: Leprechaun209

Posted by: FlexedCookie

True, but there's a big part of the gaming culture where you share games with your friends. I know i did that a lot growing up, and still do now.
I just think after buying the game, and paying XBL subscription, paying another fee to play online is just overkill and un-needed.
Personally, i will definitely view any gaming company that doesn't incorporate online passes into their online multiplayer in a higher stead than any gaming company that does incorporate online passes.
I would too, but I can see the reason behind such passes.
Saying you'll boycott a game because the developers need to turn a profit, is a bit silly.


I dont think the guy we originally quoted was saying he'll boycott because they want to make a proft. I think he meant he'll boycott because it's more profit.
From the way i see it, companies like EA and Ubisoft are already succesful gaming companies. They don't need to incorporate online passes to make a profit. They already sell tonnes of copies of their games. They already make profit, and quite a bit of it, otherwise they would have gone bust already.
Alright, but companys are still in the business of making money.I'm pretty sure it's genrally accepted that online passes are to encourge the buying of new copies of a game, so that the company benefits from it's sale, which is a win for everyone in the long run(Except smaller game stores).

  • 04.04.2012 4:52 PM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: Leprechaun209

Posted by: MasterSin

If Bungie does this, I will not play their MP. Simple as that.
Seriously? Even though the only reason they would is to encourage you to buy the game new, instead of pre-owned.
In order to make sure they actualy get income from the copy of the game.


Yup, I didn't do it for BF3 or ME3, I'm not gonna pay more for to play the same.

  • 04.04.2012 4:54 PM PDT

It seems I am one of the only ones here who supports the developer, and therefore supports online passes.

More and more we are seeing brick and mortar establishments such as Game Stop advocating and pushing the purchasing of used games on their customers, there by costing the developer what could have been a potential sale.

As a former employee of Gamestop, I can confirm that as employees, we were trained to, upon the attempted purchase of a new game by a customer, to offer them the used version instead. In a situation like this, there is no question that it is a loss of a sale for the developer.

As the op stated, you also have to consider piracy, which in my opinion, is not the main argument in a case like this, but is still one indeed.

Just to make an analogy to other platforms of games where everything is digital, such as some mobile games, you don't see people complaining about the fact that they have to pay full price for the game, and can't buy it used for a cheaper price instead.

One might try to counter this argument by saying, that this is because they already are so cheap. My response to that would be that the reason games are getting more and more expensive is because the developers have to set the price to be that high to make enough money to keep themselves afloat, and making more games.

The benefits of this can already be seen on steam, the reason that they are able to lower the prices and have such great deals is because everything is bought "new".

Online passes are the first step in a long journey to not only giving the developer what they deserve, but also lowering the prices of games as a whole. It will take awhile for it to happen, but if we can eliminate the abundance of brick and mortar establishments forcing used games and taking away sales, we will see a benefit on our end.

Regardless, none of this will really matter anyway, once everything goes digital.

Also, this probably belongs in the flood.

[Edited on 04.04.2012 5:28 PM PDT]

  • 04.04.2012 5:11 PM PDT

You only die once, better make it count.

OP has a good point.

  • 04.04.2012 5:25 PM PDT

Join SIP today! We smell good. Promise.


It's like a gigantic snowball, rolling down a mountain, eating kids on the way.


Posted by: Leprechaun209
Alright, but companys are still in the business of making money.I'm pretty sure it's genrally accepted that online passes are to encourge the buying of new copies of a game, so that the company benefits from it's sale, which is a win for everyone in the long run(Except smaller game stores).


I see what you mean, but i still dont agree it's a good idea for companies to do. It essentially divides the community between people like yourself, and me.
Wouldn't it be more profitable to keep everyone happy so that everyone still essentially buys the game? Rather have certain quantities of communities boycotting it because of ethical issues like "is it ok to make the community pay more for an online experience"?

I guess it's not really an issue for those who are able to pay for a new game as well as online passes, but for those like myself who wouldn't be able to afford that on top of XBL subscriptions, might find it greedy of the game companies.

  • 04.04.2012 6:32 PM PDT

Posted by: FlexedCookie
Is it ok to make the community pay more for an online experience"?


We already are paying more than we should have to. The reason that prices are so high is because with the abundance of sales that are made up of used games, the developers have to charge more to compensate for the losses. As I said before, the online pass is a step to eliminating used games, which will in turn decrease the prices for all games, and also make the developer what they deserve.

And thereby keeping everybody happy, as you said.

  • 04.04.2012 6:50 PM PDT


Posted by: insaneAssass1n9
It seems I am one of the only ones here who supports the developer, and therefore supports online passes.

More and more we are seeing brick and mortar establishments such as Game Stop advocating and pushing the purchasing of used games on their customers, there by costing the developer what could have been a potential sale.

As a former employee of Gamestop, I can confirm that as employees, we were trained to, upon the attempted purchase of a new game by a customer, to offer them the used version instead. In a situation like this, there is no question that it is a loss of a sale for the developer.

As the op stated, you also have to consider piracy, which in my opinion, is not the main argument in a case like this, but is still one indeed.

Just to make an analogy to other platforms of games where everything is digital, such as some mobile games, you don't see people complaining about the fact that they have to pay full price for the game, and can't buy it used for a cheaper price instead.

One might try to counter this argument by saying, that this is because they already are so cheap. My response to that would be that the reason games are getting more and more expensive is because the developers have to set the price to be that high to make enough money to keep themselves afloat, and making more games.

The benefits of this can already be seen on steam, the reason that they are able to lower the prices and have such great deals is because everything is bought "new".

Online passes are the first step in a long journey to not only giving the developer what they deserve, but also lowering the prices of games as a whole. It will take awhile for it to happen, but if we can eliminate the abundance of brick and mortar establishments forcing used games and taking away sales, we will see a benefit on our end.

Regardless, none of this will really matter anyway, once everything goes digital.

Also, this probably belongs in the flood.


I agree with what your saying, but wouldn't there be a way to go seller side, i.e. Gamestop, and try to put restrictions on selling used games? Or would they not be able to do that? Again I think it is SOMEWHAT unreasonable to put online passes but I do see the truth in what your saying...

  • 04.05.2012 3:13 PM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

You keep thinking that. How many games have you bought new only to have it fall short of the $60 value? Too many games of late have been doing that in mine and many others opinions. I for one buy many of my games used because quite frankly if I paid for them new at full price I would have been pissed.

I have been reading more articles on this and I even asked Deej in the mailsack 10 thread what their thoughts were. This topic is one of the industries hot buttons. If the industry wants to survive this then they need to look at setups like Steam and get away from the EA model. If they don't then you will see more gamers just stop shelling out the money for crappy product.
Posted by: insaneAssass1n9
which will in turn decrease the prices for all games, and also make the developer what they deserve.

  • 04.05.2012 3:41 PM PDT

Key

Online Passes are stupid. Plain and simple.

It's just companies that want to get richer.

If you can't turn a decent profit purely from game sales, and you're not an MMORPG, you did not make a good game. You shouldn't be losing too much money on game trade-ins and/or lending. Your share of the money was made when the original sale was made. After that you shouldn't be entitled to any money at all via any other sale of the game. That should be a Person A-Person B or Person A-Game Stop/Other Store-Person B relationship.

Even if you were going to say that it was put in place to reduce pirating, if anything it leads to more pirating as it puts more and more of a financial burden on the average consumer looking for a used-game.

The more of a burden you put on people to buy your game, the more likely they are to buy it.

I feel like I must reiterate:

If you have to rely on online passes to make money on a game, and you are not an MMORPG, you made a bad game. Try again next time.

  • 04.05.2012 3:53 PM PDT

>Implying I have a signature

Main stream video game companies want to milk as much money from their games as possible.

Which is why almost every indie game in existent that isn't made / owned by huge corporations controlled by evil corporate douche nozzles who only give two -blam!-s about your money never have pay to play DLC, or Online passes, or any of that -blam!-.

We seriously need to boycott large game companies like EA until they realize how large of dumb asses they are.

  • 04.05.2012 4:07 PM PDT

im a huge bungie fan. im good with computers. my dream is to work at bungie, make liveing working there.

i understand their stand point and agree. it is annoying and does hurt the community to some degree.

  • 04.05.2012 4:15 PM PDT

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