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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why didn't the Covenant learn??
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Subject: Why didn't the Covenant learn??
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Ok, I just realized something.
I've was playing Halo: CE last night, the level where you first meet the Flood. In the cutscene with Pvt. Jenkins recording, one of the Marines says "the Covenant went to a lot of trouble to lock this door" or something similar to that.
The Covenant accidentily released the Flood from Containment in Halo: CE. They realized their mistake and spent the rest of the game trying to mop up their mess, taking potshots at the MC as he goes by.
You'd think that after a mistake like that, they would have learned. So how did the Flood break containment on Delta Halo? Was it the Covenant again? Probably, so why did they not learn from Alpha Halo how to not release the Flood?

  • 05.31.2006 7:53 PM PDT
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Well we don't really know how they were let loose, but if it was the Covenent then yeah shame on them for being dumb.

  • 05.31.2006 7:55 PM PDT
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who knows why they didn't learn, to me they made a mistake.

  • 05.31.2006 7:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rakdos
Ok, I just realized something.
I've was playing Halo: CE last night, the level where you first meet the Flood. In the cutscene with Pvt. Jenkins recording, one of the Marines says "the Covenant went to a lot of trouble to lock this door" or something similar to that.
The Covenant accidentily released the Flood from Containment in Halo: CE. They realized their mistake and spent the rest of the game trying to mop up their mess, taking potshots at the MC as he goes by.
You'd think that after a mistake like that, they would have learned. So how did the Flood break containment on Delta Halo? Was it the Covenant again? Probably, so why did they not learn from Alpha Halo how to not release the Flood?


You know, that's an excellent point! uh-oh, do I smell a plot hole Bungie?

  • 05.31.2006 7:56 PM PDT

the first flood relies in H2 is becase of the heritiks, the second is most likely becase the gravemind let them out

  • 05.31.2006 7:56 PM PDT
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You know, I forgot about the heretics (I freaking hate the heretic levels).
But still, they would have known about Alpha Halo, because they WERE members of the Covenant. And what political purpose would they have for releasing the Flood. That would make the prophets even more likely to activate Halo, which the heretic leader did NOT want...

  • 05.31.2006 8:00 PM PDT
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the covies didnt let the flood out the second time, ackerson did, at least that how the theory goes and for ther most part it appears to be true

for evidence to back this up, i will just say that there were already human flood inside the sheild when the arbiter shut it off and they couldnt have come from in amber clad because it just got there

  • 05.31.2006 8:21 PM PDT
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The Heretics did not release the Flood. The Heretics are based on a mining station that is hanging from Alpha Halo, which we know was destroyed in Halo: CE. There was a Flood outbreak on Alpha Halo in the first game, and although the instalation itself was destroyed, parts of it survived WITH the Flood. This is how the Flood are with the Heretics. As for their release on Delta Halo, who knows. It wasn't important to the story to explain that. And it still isn't important.

  • 05.31.2006 8:21 PM PDT
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Gravemind is on this ring. He obviously has access to the transportation systems of the ring, he could have easily moved the flood from containment.

  • 05.31.2006 8:22 PM PDT
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True. Another facet to this topic. Gravemind can teleport anything on this Halo to anywhere in range (which is obviously High Charity). But then, why did he need In Amber Clad to get the Flood to High Charity. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!

  • 05.31.2006 8:24 PM PDT
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Bungie Crossword Solver.
UNSCDF Supreme Commander

★★★★★
In terms of FPS Games:
PC > Xbox360, PC > PS3.

The flood on the Heretic levels were already on the station. When you first enter the other part of the station, you can see infection forms inside, what looks to be, a "fish-tank" of some sort for studying or observing. The forerunner facility could have been used to study the flood, and the Heretics were stupid enough to, some-how, let them out.

  • 05.31.2006 8:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: SikSui22
True. Another facet to this topic. Gravemind can teleport anything on this Halo to anywhere in range (which is obviously High Charity). But then, why did he need In Amber Clad to get the Flood to High Charity. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!


Great point. Maybe he was trying to conceal his involvment from the Chief, speculation but your previous post has baffled me.

  • 05.31.2006 8:28 PM PDT

Posted by: Rakdos
Ok, I just realized something.
I've was playing Halo: CE last night, the level where you first meet the Flood. In the cutscene with Pvt. Jenkins recording, one of the Marines says "the Covenant went to a lot of trouble to lock this door" or something similar to that.
The Covenant accidentily released the Flood from Containment in Halo: CE. They realized their mistake and spent the rest of the game trying to mop up their mess, taking potshots at the MC as he goes by.
You'd think that after a mistake like that, they would have learned. So how did the Flood break containment on Delta Halo? Was it the Covenant again? Probably, so why did they not learn from Alpha Halo how to not release the Flood?


On Alpha Halo The covenant were under the command of 'the Arbiter' but he is now resigned from the campaign against humans so at Delta Halo they were under a new command and he is equally stupid.

  • 05.31.2006 8:29 PM PDT
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Yeah, umm....I don't think that any Elite, no matter how stupid or noobish, could have repeated those mistakes. Their advisers and lietenants and crap wouldn't let them.

  • 05.31.2006 8:32 PM PDT
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Wouldn't a Brute have replaced the Arbiter though? The Prophets ARE favoring the Brutes after Alpha Halo blew up...

  • 05.31.2006 8:40 PM PDT
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I don't think a Brute would have replaced the Arbiter. The Prophets weren't being AS obvious about their favor of the Brutes until MC kill Regret. And the same logic would apply to Brutes anyways: Even Brutes aren't that stupid.

  • 05.31.2006 8:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tarius
the covies didnt let the flood out the second time, ackerson did, at least that how the theory goes and for ther most part it appears to be true

for evidence to back this up, i will just say that there were already human flood inside the sheild when the arbiter shut it off and they couldnt have come from in amber clad because it just got there
Yeah, the Ackerson theory is much more believible.

  • 05.31.2006 8:50 PM PDT
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I've never read the books. Who is Ackerson?
And that's a good point: the timeline is off. In Amber Clad couldn't get passed the shield, and other posts I've seen have "proven" that assimilation by the Flood takes time. So why were there Human Flood before you turn the shield off?

  • 05.31.2006 8:53 PM PDT
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The way I understand it, and I could be very wrong, but what I understand is that Ackerson is some kind of ONI person, the equivilent of Bester in Babylon 5. I'm not sure. Read the thread "A Theory of what may be revealed in Halo 3: Clones and Lies".
Nice point about the timeline.

  • 05.31.2006 9:13 PM PDT
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With the flood, they are awakened if you even go near them, so they probably checked every area and inadvertedly released the flood... again...

  • 05.31.2006 9:15 PM PDT
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Let me see if I can address as many of these as I can...

"Why did the Covenant release the Flood...twice?"
Good point. But think of it this way: The way they were released in the first game is nothing like the second game. In the first, they are completely contained inside small rooms in a facility. In the second, they already broke out of those and are only contained by the containment shield. The Arbiter needs to lower the containment shield to get the Sacred Icon. Why would the Covenant do this again?
- The Great Journey!!! Religious insanity is good enough.
- "The largest Covenant fleet I've ever seen. The largest anyone has ever seen." (Cortana) that fleet is sitting right outside of Halo; if anything bad happens, they can simply deal with it with brute force. Very slim chance anything catostrophic will happen by simply lowering the shield.

Why does it turn catostrophic? 1: Civil War in the Covenant; their firepower and attention is dedicated on each other, not the Flood outbreak. 2: Flood get In Amber Clad to jump to High Charity. Bad things happen.

No plot hole, just indirect reasoning.

"Why does Gravemind need In Amber Clad if he can teleport anything to anywhere on High Charity?"
Good question. Referring to Halo 1 at the end of Two Betrayals "however, each jump requires a rather consequential expendeture of energy." Why would you spend soooo much energy (transporting a human-size figure, much less a behemoth giant like the Gravemind), when you can simply use a warp jump on a ship that is easily within your grasp. No plot hole, just indirect reasoning.

"Why doesn't Gravemind teleport his Flood outside the shield??"
Surely the shield scrambles all teleportation. The Forerunners weren't stupid; far from it. The shield is probably more than a simple physical obstruction. Plus, *refers back to last question* it takes a lot of energy to do that, energy that might have been used on the shield. Also, the Flood are busy trying to defend the Sacred Icon and rid themselves of the Sentinels. In addition, since it takes a lot of energy, there wouldn't be many Flood outside the shield. Perhaps they were killed or you simply never saw them (you only were on a fraction of the ring). There are a few reasons why he didn't (or did): pick whichever one you want.

"It was Ackerson!!!"
This makes the most sense; the Flood were already release, simply contained inside of a shield. Human Flood and many Human supplies were inside the shield, which is curious. Plus, the Flood were using vehicles; even if you are super-smart, it takes some time to learn how to use something without instructions or anything. However, I do not believe in Halo 3 it will blame it on Ackerson; when did you see Ackerson referred to, referenced, or even noted in the Halo games? True, it might state them in the books, but saying "hey, you know those things that happened in the past. Yeah, that was this guy you never heard of but has been mastermining everything." in a video game seems farfetched.

  • 05.31.2006 9:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ajk141
With the flood, they are awakened if you even go near them, so they probably checked every area and inadvertedly released the flood... again...


Do the books say that about the Flood? And I love your sig: "Damn stolers". Awesome article.

To Spinkycleft: Thanks, everything you said makes perfect sense, except: the part about the energy expendeture(sp?).
I remember the end of two betrayals, but consider this: The Gravemind has had millenia to trasport combat and carrier forms to other parts of the ring. We know he can transport at least two at a time (Arbiter and MC), and the teleporter may or may not be affected by the shield. But excellent explanation of things. I'm willing to believe everything you said. And IS Ackerson some ONI guy?

  • 05.31.2006 9:26 PM PDT
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they didnt learn to make the game more fun.

  • 05.31.2006 9:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: HansgruberXXV
Posted by: SikSui22
True. Another facet to this topic. Gravemind can teleport anything on this Halo to anywhere in range (which is obviously High Charity). But then, why did he need In Amber Clad to get the Flood to High Charity. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!


Great point. Maybe he was trying to conceal his involvment from the Chief, speculation but your previous post has baffled me.


No, the teleportation is a Grid, some things (like a ship about 50 feet in the air) can be tele'd to, like the T&R from H1. I doubt even the forunners could teleport to something that is off of Halo's surface....

  • 05.31.2006 9:46 PM PDT
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Now are you talking about the game, or the books, because in the game I think Keyes does and e4e blames it on the cov. And what is CE?

  • 05.31.2006 9:51 PM PDT

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