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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why didn't the Covenant learn??
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Subject: Why didn't the Covenant learn??
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Posted by: SikSui22
To Spinkycleft: Thanks, everything you said makes perfect sense, except: the part about the energy expendeture(sp?).
I remember the end of two betrayals, but consider this: The Gravemind has had millenia to trasport combat and carrier forms to other parts of the ring. We know he can transport at least two at a time (Arbiter and MC), and the teleporter may or may not be affected by the shield.

Thank you. Oh, and Ackerson is part of ONI, if I remember correctly (I read the books only once, a while ago...they didn't really interest me)

Hmmm...well...there must be something I didn't think of. Your point is quite valid. I also thought of something else: why was Gravemind able to slip through the lake on Delta Halo before the containment shield was lowered...there is definately something missing. Why weren't the flood everywhere when the Covenant landed.

The only thing I can think of is the Sentinels. They were quite large force to be messed with on the ring: Enforcers and Gold Sentinels...Maybe the Sentinels eliminated these Flood one at a time when they were teleported. Since there was no decent source of food, the Gravemind simply learned that it was a lossing battle; killing a sentinel wasn't worth losing some of his very hungry minions. Minions which he had no replenishable supply of...

^ My thoughts.

  • 05.31.2006 9:57 PM PDT
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Valid theories, but none of which provide a surefire way to know how the Flood were released on Delta Halo. Somehow, I have the feeling it doesn't really matter when it comes to our enjoyment of the game though. Thanks guys.

  • 06.01.2006 7:33 AM PDT
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Maybe on Delta it was Gravemind, maybe he came to be little by little in the containment area on Delta Halo while it was uninhabited by the covenant, and eventually became so powerful the containment measures taken by the covenant couldn't hold him in any longer.

  • 06.01.2006 7:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Eyeshine
Maybe on Delta it was Gravemind, maybe he came to be little by little in the containment area on Delta Halo while it was uninhabited by the covenant, and eventually became so powerful the containment measures taken by the covenant couldn't hold him in any longer.


I do believe that we've been discussing the possibilty of Gravemind's involvement..

  • 06.01.2006 7:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: darekster2ongame
Posted by: HansgruberXXV
Posted by: SikSui22
True. Another facet to this topic. Gravemind can teleport anything on this Halo to anywhere in range (which is obviously High Charity). But then, why did he need In Amber Clad to get the Flood to High Charity. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!


Great point. Maybe he was trying to conceal his involvment from the Chief, speculation but your previous post has baffled me.


I think that Grave Mind is simply to big to transport that way.

No, the teleportation is a Grid, some things (like a ship about 50 feet in the air) can be tele'd to, like the T&R from H1. I doubt even the forunners could teleport to something that is off of Halo's surface....

  • 06.01.2006 8:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: Heretic Leader 7
Posted by: darekster2ongame
Posted by: HansgruberXXV
Posted by: SikSui22
True. Another facet to this topic. Gravemind can teleport anything on this Halo to anywhere in range (which is obviously High Charity). But then, why did he need In Amber Clad to get the Flood to High Charity. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!


Great point. Maybe he was trying to conceal his involvment from the Chief, speculation but your previous post has baffled me.


I think that Grave Mind is simply to big to transport that way.

No, the teleportation is a Grid, some things (like a ship about 50 feet in the air) can be tele'd to, like the T&R from H1. I doubt even the forunners could teleport to something that is off of Halo's surface....


Alright, if you truly believe that, how do you explain Gravemind transporting MC to High Charity. I'm pretty damned sure High Charity is more than 300 meters.
And T&R was 300 meters, play that level on Halo 1.

  • 06.01.2006 8:08 AM PDT

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First off Rakdos, you don't ask a question then answer it on the next sentence. For example, do you like pizza. Wait, of course you don't. Anyways, Each Halo has a Flood Instilation, and it is possible that the Covenant relesed the flood on Delta Halo, but not confirmed. Delta Halo is older than the first Halo, if you noticed when playing the game. The flood could have broken out by themselves, but it's just a theory. Your theory has a good argument but we don't know exactly how the flood broke out the second time.

  • 06.01.2006 8:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: SikSui22
Posted by: Heretic Leader 7
Posted by: darekster2ongame
Posted by: HansgruberXXV
Posted by: SikSui22
True. Another facet to this topic. Gravemind can teleport anything on this Halo to anywhere in range (which is obviously High Charity). But then, why did he need In Amber Clad to get the Flood to High Charity. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!


Great point. Maybe he was trying to conceal his involvment from the Chief, speculation but your previous post has baffled me.


I think that Grave Mind is simply to big to transport that way.

No, the teleportation is a Grid, some things (like a ship about 50 feet in the air) can be tele'd to, like the T&R from H1. I doubt even the forunners could teleport to something that is off of Halo's surface....


Alright, if you truly believe that, how do you explain Gravemind transporting MC to High Charity. I'm pretty damned sure High Charity is more than 300 meters.
And T&R was 300 meters, play that level on Halo 1.


Well for one thing, all of the energy it takes, PLUS the MC's suit can help a little. As for gravemind teleporting himself.......

  • 06.01.2006 8:22 AM PDT
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I think I've got it!
It had nothing to do with the Covenant remembering their mistakes on Alpha Halo.
The Arbiter lowered the Containment shield (the only thing keeping the Flood in check) to get the Sacred Icon. Covenant logic: Who cares if we release the Flood again as long as we're about to go on our Great Journey?
If anyone sees any problems with this answer, lemme know.
THREAD CLOSED *pumps arms*

  • 06.01.2006 8:22 AM PDT
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I am...whimsical today.

I think the capture of 2401 Penitant Tangent has something to do with it. Without a main co-ordinating intelligence it would be hard for the Sentinels to keep the Flood contained.

As far as I understood it, the Containment sheild kept the Flood AWAY from the Library, where the Index was kept.

  • 06.01.2006 8:35 AM PDT
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I think that the "heritics" let the flood loose, being more on edge than the rest of them lot!

  • 06.01.2006 8:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Heretic Leader 7
Posted by: darekster2ongame
Posted by: HansgruberXXV
Posted by: SikSui22
True. Another facet to this topic. Gravemind can teleport anything on this Halo to anywhere in range (which is obviously High Charity). But then, why did he need In Amber Clad to get the Flood to High Charity. DOESN'T MAKE SENSE! DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!


Great point. Maybe he was trying to conceal his involvment from the Chief, speculation but your previous post has baffled me.


I think that Grave Mind is simply to big to transport that way.

No, the teleportation is a Grid, some things (like a ship about 50 feet in the air) can be tele'd to, like the T&R from H1. I doubt even the forunners could teleport to something that is off of Halo's surface....


ok first off if grave mind is able to do it, the forerunners were able to do, he using their tech to teleport, he didnt come up with anything new

second, the reason he needed in amber clad is because he wnated to get a large amount of flood onto HC all at once with the ability to spread it quickly, in amber clad was the only way to do this, i dont think he can teleport that many flood all at once

third, it was ackerson, this is about the most sensible theory out of all the theories iv heard and is the most plausible
anyway, on to the evidence, im not gonna go thru all of it, but enough to prove the pnt

ok, first you must realize that the books and the games go hand in hand they are not separate in any way and the author or bungie or whoever official said that this was so(cant remeber exaclty), so in other words, what you see in the games go along with the story line, you are just seeing it from one pnt of veiw instead of from several like in the books

ok on to the main evidence(there is thread for this, but i am in no way gonna look thru 200 some pages of threads to find it)

ok, like was mentioned before, the flood are inside the shield when the arbitor turns it off, they were not teleported there by the gravemind
ackcerson worked for ONI, which is the Office of naval intelligence and had access to lots of classified material, alot of it being research
now, we know that he was interested in incorporating flood DNA into a new line of spartans however he needed a large source of it and had to do his research in private, he also ahd access to forerunner knowledge about certain locations(i cant remeber whether he got it from alpha halo or from that stone pulled off of reach) one of which was delta halo
well since they keep flood on hand at these installations it was good place to go and not only that, he could stand to gain even more tech because its a halo and contain lots of knowledge in its library, well where would the best place be to do research, the place i just mentioned

ok enough of that, when you first land on delta halo in the game, the part called hell jumpers, if you look on the surface as they show the piods coming down you will see that there are already pods there on the ground, now as far as i know, keys didnt send in a wave before the MC so the pods were there before the in amber clad arrived
the next bit of evidence are the boxes around the library, why would there be human boxes there? i dont think that keyes was planning a prolonged stay on the ring so it make nio sense to have lots of supplies sitting there and not only that, when your playing as the arbiter you see the marines running thru where they say "we'll hold out here as long as we can" well from the looks of things they are pretty bad off and i dont think they would have had time to get boxes into that area

then there is the fact that there are human combat forms already there, now it takes at least a couple hours for flood to assimilate someone so how could there be human combat forms there already if the in amber clad just arrived? there would had to of been humand already there in order for this to happen which goes back to ackerson

to tie all this together, the theory goes that ackerson was doing experiments with humans and flood DNA around the library and had set his base of operations there(the explanation for the boxes, and by the way, if you play these levels, read what the boxes say on them)
well, while experimenting there was a flood out break and that would be why the flood are already there

there is even some speculation that he made a pact of some kind with Truth, but thats a different story

  • 06.01.2006 8:39 AM PDT

Quick as a razor, sharp as a bullet.

damn i was gonna read that previous post...

  • 06.01.2006 8:51 AM PDT
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Well the first time we see the flood in H2 they are released by the heretic. And the next time we see them they have been released for an extended and as of yet unknown amt of time but they are actually behind a containment wall and the only reason the covenant go there is to recover the index, so they can make the great journey.

  • 06.01.2006 9:02 AM PDT
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Well in H2 it only takes a few moments for the flood to infect a body. And i think you are reading to much into all the crates and things i always took them to be decoration and not evidence of some prior visit.

  • 06.01.2006 9:07 AM PDT

They may take our lives. But they will never take our freedom!

the pods in the level helljumpers are from the same wave as masterchief. Those poor bastards just got unliky landing into the middle of covenant positions and they got shot.

  • 06.01.2006 9:27 AM PDT

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Doctor Jensen
I've challenged my beliefs. What is the book about?


I find that this is usually untrue. If religious people honestly, diligently and intelligently challenged their beliefs, there would be no religious people.

I wouldn't think so, I mean wasn't the only reason the covenant trying to get through the wall was to get the icon?

  • 06.01.2006 9:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: AFK BRB
Well the first time we see the flood in H2 they are released by the heretic. And the next time we see them they have been released for an extended and as of yet unknown amt of time but they are actually behind a containment wall and the only reason the covenant go there is to recover the index, so they can make the great journey.


Relevance issue: The Heretics were on a mining station on ALPHA HALO! The Flood had already been released on Alpha Halo, and this had nothing to do with Delta Halo.

  • 06.01.2006 10:33 AM PDT
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Chances r none of these things r the real explanation.
Bungie probally just wanted to make the story line more exciting and so said "Lets put flood in D Halo But the flood have already escaped, so the chief has to kill covenant AND flood"
And that is my explanation...
Oh and you guys need to take showers, i could smell you guys even through the net.
lol

  • 06.01.2006 10:37 AM PDT
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Maybe it's just me, but I do have great faith in Bungies storytelling capability, and their attention to detail.
So I think that if Bungie put something in the game, they did it for a reason. Even if it's "decorative supply boxes".

  • 06.01.2006 10:45 AM PDT
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Because they're stupid alien bastards.

  • 06.01.2006 10:49 AM PDT
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The flood was released in the process of finding the index... The humans where the main reason why they escaped. The flood in the Forerunner instellation where successfully contained there.

  • 06.01.2006 10:53 AM PDT

I just thought of something:

If Gravemind has "assimilated" 2401 Penitent Tangent, he would have control of all (or most) of Delta Halo's functions, right? We already know that he can control the teleportation grid, because we see him do so with the Master Chief and the Arbiter. So, why didn't Gravemind deactivate the Containment Field, and use the reserve power to teleport the Flood across Delta Halo, and then to In Amber Clad or High Charity when they arrived? There obviously wasn't enough reserve power on Delta Halo to teleport with the shield activated, because if you notice after the Master Chief and the Arbiter are teleported, their energy shields are down - Gravemind had to use their power supplies.

My only possible conclusion is that the Flood cannot be teleported, for some reason. I can hear people say already "Ah, but what about Truth and Reconciliation in Halo CE? And the Pillar of Autumn? And what about the Library?". Well, there was a gravity lift in the level "Keyes" that we see Covenant and Flood fighting over - it's possible that the Flood had managed to board the ship before the Covenant strike teams arrived, and the Covenant were trying to cut off any more from entering the ship. As for the Pillar of Autumn on the level "The Maw", the Master Chief arrived at least 24 hours after Keyes and the Marines released the Flood, and we know that the Covenant probably released it first. So, the Flood had ample time to get to the Pillar of Autumn, either on foot or by some kind of captured vehicle. Finally, the Library - remember, we have no idea how far the Library is from the structure in "343 Guilty Spark" - its fair to say that it could be relatively close by, and the Monitor only teleported because he was complying with protocol to contain the Flood quickly.

A long rant, I know. I tend to go overboard a bit when speculating.
-Pyroshark-

  • 06.01.2006 11:15 AM PDT

what do you expect they are dumb aliens lol. yeh but you would expect them to be alot smarter. also, by releasing the flood, would this not be blasphemy?

  • 06.01.2006 11:18 AM PDT

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