Halo: Reach Forum
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  • Subject: Conspiracy Theory Time
Subject: Conspiracy Theory Time

Veritas, Macto, Respecio

Posted by: nicksta14

Posted by: IRISH 249
They catered to the majority of their players. Not all are/were terrible. (I fall in the terrible category).

The majority of Halo players are casual players. mlg and the likes make up a minority of Bungie customers. If you are a business, you are going to try to please the greatest number possible, even if it does alienate a few.

That's the problem: Bungie created this game from a business standpoint, not one that takes gameplay into consideration. By catering Reach to casual players (as exemplified by your story which showed that Halo 3 ranks have actual relevance to skill as opposed to Reach's, which are based on playtime alone), Bungie lost a good portion of the competitive fanbase.

As far as casual games go, Reach was no competition for larger titles such as Black Ops, MW3, etc. The end result was Reach becoming unpopular as a whole. Sheer numbers support this; Halo 3 had a much larger lifespan and a far greater population at this point in its life cycle than Reach has.


Reach was no competition to COD because Bungie was the only one making Halo and for competitive players. COD was/is being made by 2 companies (Infinity Ward and Treyarch).

To make matters worse, they come out with a COD title every year which A) they are trying to appeal to the younger generation of players now than those who started in the early years and B) makes their games even more accessible to everyone. Because you can play the newest COD for a year while waiting for the next COD title to come out so you can buy that.

[Edited on 04.17.2012 8:31 AM PDT]

  • 04.17.2012 8:30 AM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: Azrael203
The only problem with that is the fact that NO ONE will ever create a game that is liked by everyone. It is impossible. One way or another there WILL be a group of people that WONT like the game for whatever reason.


Here's the problem with your statement.

H3 catered to both the casual crowd as well as giving those that wanted a more competitive side of the game, something to compete in/for.

While it's impossible to please everyone, pleasing as much as possible is still in the picture frame.
Dumping an entire side of the community is simply bad buisness.





Posted by: Azrael203
Reach was no competition to COD because Bungie was the only one making Halo and for competitive players. COD was/is being made by 2 companies (Infinity Ward and Treyarch).

This is just...... terrible.
Saying a game is no competition to an other simply because it's being made by 1 company, is simply untrue and a terrible example/excuse.

A game will be competition to an other in it's gender if said game has the qualities to compete with the other.
The game won't be any competition if it lacks said qualities.

[Edited on 04.17.2012 8:42 AM PDT]

  • 04.17.2012 8:39 AM PDT

Veritas, Macto, Respecio

Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: Azrael203
The only problem with that is the fact that NO ONE will ever create a game that is liked by everyone. It is impossible. One way or another there WILL be a group of people that WONT like the game for whatever reason.


Here's the problem with your statement.

H3 catered to both the casual crowd as well as giving those that wanted a more competitive side of the game, something to compete in/for.

While it's impossible to please everyone, pleasing as much as possible is still in the picture frame.
Dumping an entire side of the community is simply bad buisness.


But you still have to cater your game towards the majority of the community. I know it is a business idea and perspective, but that is the only way to go. You cant make a game catered to the minority of players because then the majority of the community wont buy the game and that is bad for business.

I agree that dumping 1 side for the other is a bad move, but they havent necessarily done that with Reach. There are still competitive people and playsits. Its just that there are more casual outlets than there are competitive.

And pleasing as much as they can is what they were doing with Reach. Apparently the casuals were what they saw the most and decided to please them more since they were the majority. Otherwise the sales for Reach would not have been what they were.

  • 04.17.2012 8:44 AM PDT

Veritas, Macto, Respecio

Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: Azrael203
The only problem with that is the fact that NO ONE will ever create a game that is liked by everyone. It is impossible. One way or another there WILL be a group of people that WONT like the game for whatever reason.


Here's the problem with your statement.

H3 catered to both the casual crowd as well as giving those that wanted a more competitive side of the game, something to compete in/for.

While it's impossible to please everyone, pleasing as much as possible is still in the picture frame.
Dumping an entire side of the community is simply bad buisness.


But you still have to cater your game towards the majority of the community. I know it is a business idea and perspective, but that is the only way to go. You cant make a game catered to the minority of players because then the majority of the community wont buy the game and that is bad for business.

I agree that dumping 1 side for the other is a bad move, but they havent necessarily done that with Reach. There are still competitive people and playsits. Its just that there are more casual outlets than there are competitive.

And pleasing as much as they can is what they were doing with Reach. Apparently the casuals were what they saw the most and decided to please them more since they were the majority. Otherwise the sales for Reach would not have been what they were.

and if you read the rest of my comment you would see WHY i said that.

  • 04.17.2012 8:45 AM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: Azrael203
But you still have to cater your game towards the majority of the community. I know it is a business idea and perspective, but that is the only way to go. You cant make a game catered to the minority of players because then the majority of the community wont buy the game and that is bad for business.

I agree that dumping 1 side for the other is a bad move, but they havent necessarily done that with Reach. There are still competitive people and playsits. Its just that there are more casual outlets than there are competitive.

And pleasing as much as they can is what they were doing with Reach. Apparently the casuals were what they saw the most and decided to please them more since they were the majority. Otherwise the sales for Reach would not have been what they were.



Let's compare the options players that want to play something competitive vs the others.

Where the competition can be found on a somewhat constant basis
-Arena *since JP removal*
-MLG

More "casual playlists"
-Everything else which is roughly 20+ playlists.


Quick math.

1:10 ratio.



If that's trying to "please competitive players" then wow... that is very sad.
It looks more like a reason for people wanting some competition to shut up.



Why not simply make it 50:50 ?
That way everyone had what they wanted.
You try to claim "Bungie tried" but the sad truth is that they did not.


One can also say "Reach had the best sale".... maybe true, I'd have to see the numbers but, Reach has the lowest numbers for a Halo game, there's no denying that.




Can argue as much as we want, sad truth is Reach was just a failure of a halo game and hopefully, the mistakes done by Bungie with it, won't be repeated by 343 in H4.

  • 04.17.2012 9:00 AM PDT

I'm not racist, I own a colored TV


Posted by: Kira Onime

^Is vastly superior in thought than most of you.

  • 04.17.2012 10:06 AM PDT

Old School Gamer and Proud Member of the Seventh Column

Go look at any competitive playlist on Reach . . . At any time . . . Now, tomorrow, friday night when many are online playing. . . The competitive playlists ALWAYS have the least number of players. I'm talking hundreds of players while the so - called casual playlists have thousands of players.

Why in God's name should Bungie create more playlists for a demographic that can barely support the playlists they currently have.

Dude, you are not making sense.
Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: Azrael203
But you still have to cater your game towards the majority of the community. I know it is a business idea and perspective, but that is the only way to go. You cant make a game catered to the minority of players because then the majority of the community wont buy the game and that is bad for business.

I agree that dumping 1 side for the other is a bad move, but they havent necessarily done that with Reach. There are still competitive people and playsits. Its just that there are more casual outlets than there are competitive.

And pleasing as much as they can is what they were doing with Reach. Apparently the casuals were what they saw the most and decided to please them more since they were the majority. Otherwise the sales for Reach would not have been what they were.



Let's compare the options players that want to play something competitive vs the others.

Where the competition can be found on a somewhat constant basis
-Arena *since JP removal*
-MLG

More "casual playlists"
-Everything else which is roughly 20+ playlists.


Quick math.

1:10 ratio.



If that's trying to "please competitive players" then wow... that is very sad.
It looks more like a reason for people wanting some competition to shut up.



Why not simply make it 50:50 ?
That way everyone had what they wanted.
You try to claim "Bungie tried" but the sad truth is that they did not.


One can also say "Reach had the best sale".... maybe true, I'd have to see the numbers but, Reach has the lowest numbers for a Halo game, there's no denying that.




Can argue as much as we want, sad truth is Reach was just a failure of a halo game and hopefully, the mistakes done by Bungie with it, won't be repeated by 343 in H4.

  • 04.17.2012 4:56 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: IRISH 249
Go look at any competitive playlist on Reach . . . At any time . . . Now, tomorrow, friday night when many are online playing. . . The competitive playlists ALWAYS have the least number of players. I'm talking hundreds of players while the so - called casual playlists have thousands of players.

Why in God's name should Bungie create more playlists for a demographic that can barely support the playlists they currently have.

Dude, you are not making sense.



Reach has successfully turned away most of the more competitive community.

And by moments, it feels as if 343 is trying to kill off what ever is left.

There are so many redundant playlists in Reach it's ridiculous.
You could take out at least 4 or 5.




Anyways, we'll see what 343 does.
If they're smart, they make everyone happy, if they're pants on head retarded, they'll do the same mistakes Bungie did.



Now, you and Azrel, please go back to waypoint forum.
This forum doesn't need it's community.

  • 04.17.2012 5:02 PM PDT

Old School Gamer and Proud Member of the Seventh Column

I don't understand how someone who dislikes a game so much and hold the developer in such low esteem would continue to lurk on their doorstep.

It's odd. As for me? I'll stay.
Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: IRISH 249
Go look at any competitive playlist on Reach . . . At any time . . . Now, tomorrow, friday night when many are online playing. . . The competitive playlists ALWAYS have the least number of players. I'm talking hundreds of players while the so - called casual playlists have thousands of players.

Why in God's name should Bungie create more playlists for a demographic that can barely support the playlists they currently have.

Dude, you are not making sense.



Reach has successfully turned away most of the more competitive community.

And by moments, it feels as if 343 is trying to kill off what ever is left.

There are so many redundant playlists in Reach it's ridiculous.
You could take out at least 4 or 5.




Anyways, we'll see what 343 does.
If they're smart, they make everyone happy, if they're pants on head retarded, they'll do the same mistakes Bungie did.



Now, you and Azrel, please go back to waypoint forum.
This forum doesn't need it's community.

  • 04.17.2012 5:21 PM PDT

Veritas, Macto, Respecio

Posted by: IRISH 249
I don't understand how someone who dislikes a game so much and hold the developer in such low esteem would continue to lurk on their doorstep.

It's odd. As for me? I'll stay.
Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: IRISH 249
Go look at any competitive playlist on Reach . . . At any time . . . Now, tomorrow, friday night when many are online playing. . . The competitive playlists ALWAYS have the least number of players. I'm talking hundreds of players while the so - called casual playlists have thousands of players.

Why in God's name should Bungie create more playlists for a demographic that can barely support the playlists they currently have.

Dude, you are not making sense.



Reach has successfully turned away most of the more competitive community.

And by moments, it feels as if 343 is trying to kill off what ever is left.

There are so many redundant playlists in Reach it's ridiculous.
You could take out at least 4 or 5.




Anyways, we'll see what 343 does.
If they're smart, they make everyone happy, if they're pants on head retarded, they'll do the same mistakes Bungie did.



Now, you and Azrel, please go back to waypoint forum.
This forum doesn't need it's community.


i agree with you. i know Kira has a hatred for just about everything in this game. my question is, if he hates it so much.......why stay on the forums or even play?

and then when someone has a different view on the game than he does, oh my god watch out. he immediately calls them retarded for not seeing things his way (a way that sees everything in this game as broken, stupid and unfair).

i ran into people like this all the time on the COD forums. and it still makes no sense to me to this day why people with such hatred for the game and some of the community that doesnt see things his way, would continue to come on these forums. it went from a criticism point of view at the start to just plain trolling now.

  • 04.17.2012 6:15 PM PDT

Want a cool clan? Join FRAG!

Want a war sim? The best war sim in Halo, Forerunner Conflict.

Here's another theory. What if they're trying to kill their fanbase?

Think about it. Reach was terrible before TU, they never even tried to implement half the stuff we wanted, and they haven't released anything in months. Maybe they wanna go back to that kinda off radar studio again.

  • 04.17.2012 6:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

My Level. Get on it.


Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: Azrael203

and then when someone has a different view on the game than he does, oh my god watch out. he immediately calls them retarded for not seeing things his way (a way that sees everything in this game as broken, stupid and unfair).


It's not a different view. It's called being wrong.

  • 04.17.2012 6:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

My Level. Get on it.


Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: IRISH 249
Go look at any competitive playlist on Reach . . . At any time . . . Now, tomorrow, friday night when many are online playing. . . The competitive playlists ALWAYS have the least number of players. I'm talking hundreds of players while the so - called casual playlists have thousands of players.



Obviously in Reach, you -blam!- downie. Reach is a joke at a competitive level. Hell, it's a joke at any level.

Halo was more successful when it was a competitive game.

  • 04.17.2012 6:47 PM PDT

Veritas, Macto, Respecio

Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Azrael203

and then when someone has a different view on the game than he does, oh my god watch out. he immediately calls them retarded for not seeing things his way (a way that sees everything in this game as broken, stupid and unfair).


It's not a different view. It's called being wrong.


dude, you are the same way. you cant stand people who have a different opinion than you. that is blatantly obvious. because your mentality, like Kira, is basically "i think the game is this and anyone who doesnt think the same way as i do is completely wrong". you know, i thought you had to be MATURE in order to buy this game. but it is clear that your mentality is that of an elementary school child that says "i know you are but what am i?".

  • 04.17.2012 6:56 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

*wonders how New Clan Recruitment For Shadow Pack thread gets 55 replies*

*reads "Hi I'm Ashley. . ." *

[Question Answered]

*proceeds to read on, shakes head, and gently laughs*

I lol'd

  • 04.17.2012 6:56 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: Azrael203
and then when someone has a different view on the game than he does, oh my god watch out. he immediately calls them retarded for not seeing things his way (a way that sees everything in this game as broken, stupid and unfair).


There's a difference beetween having an opinion based on actual facts, and being flat out wrong and too stuck up your own "wrong-ness" to even notice you're wrong.



It's like if you tried arguing with me the earth was flat and made out of cheese.

  • 04.17.2012 6:57 PM PDT

Veritas, Macto, Respecio


Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: Azrael203
and then when someone has a different view on the game than he does, oh my god watch out. he immediately calls them retarded for not seeing things his way (a way that sees everything in this game as broken, stupid and unfair).


There's a difference beetween having an opinion based on actual facts, and being flat out wrong and too stuck up your own "wrong-ness" to even notice you're wrong.



It's like if you tried arguing with me the earth was flat and made out of cheese.


thank you for proving my point.

  • 04.17.2012 6:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Life is a journey, if you spend all of it with your nose in your map, you may miss some of the best parts.


Posted by: Azrael203


You're a casual. You have no idea how this game works. Don't try to explain it, because you're going to get it wrong.

  • 04.17.2012 6:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: Azrael203

Watch out, if you go to far, you'll fall off the edge of the world, but I'm sure you already know that, since you've been telling me the earth is flat, it must of been common sense to you.

  • 04.17.2012 7:01 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

My Level. Get on it.


Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: Azrael203


Say whatever you want. You're still wrong.

Also, if you're going to call anyone immature, try to use proper capitalization, spelling, and grammar.

  • 04.17.2012 7:02 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Life is a journey, if you spend all of it with your nose in your map, you may miss some of the best parts.


Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Azrael203


Say whatever you want. You're still wrong.

Also, if you're going to call anyone immature, try to use proper capitalization, spelling, and grammar.


itz not engrish class dood i can do wutever i want on teh internets

  • 04.17.2012 7:03 PM PDT

Veritas, Macto, Respecio


Posted by: RustedEdge

Posted by: Azrael203


You're a casual. You have no idea how this game works. Don't try to explain it, because you're going to get it wrong.


yes i am a casual but i had also played this game A LOT every day from march 2011, a few months after it came out and played for a few months afterward, then i just recently started playing again but not so much because i am working and going back to college. so you are saying that because i am a casual, my opinion has less merit than that of someone who takes this game too seriously and complains on the forums just because he doesnt like something?

that is pathetic.

  • 04.17.2012 7:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

My Level. Get on it.


Posted by: RC Clone
Nope. SouthPole isn't a person. He's the avatar of the force of tryhards everywhere. He stalks the web looking for retards to set straight. He can not be stopped by mere bans or thread locks for he shall rise anew.


Posted by: Azrael203
so you are saying that because i am a casual, my opinion has less merit than that of someone who takes this game too seriously and complains on the forums just because he doesnt like something?


No. I have no idea where you're getting this from.

We're saying your "opinion" has less merit because it is wrong, and has been proven wrong countless times by people who are a lot more credible than you are.

Have fun in community college.

  • 04.17.2012 7:05 PM PDT

Veritas, Macto, Respecio


Posted by: SouthPoIe

Posted by: Azrael203


Say whatever you want. You're still wrong.

Also, if you're going to call anyone immature, try to use proper capitalization, spelling, and grammar.


and another great example of being mature. attacking the way i type instead of defending yourself with actual logic and reason. way to go bud.

  • 04.17.2012 7:05 PM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Life is a journey, if you spend all of it with your nose in your map, you may miss some of the best parts.


Posted by: Azrael203

Posted by: RustedEdge

Posted by: Azrael203


You're a casual. You have no idea how this game works. Don't try to explain it, because you're going to get it wrong.


yes i am a casual but i had also played this game A LOT every day from march 2011, a few months after it came out and played for a few months afterward, then i just recently started playing again but not so much because i am working and going back to college. so you are saying that because i am a casual, my opinion has less merit than that of someone who takes this game too seriously and complains on the forums just because he doesnt like something?

that is pathetic.


Pretty much, yeah.

  • 04.17.2012 7:06 PM PDT