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  • Subject: Halo Story arc - just not that good.
Subject: Halo Story arc - just not that good.

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I think this is a silly thread. If you go all the way back through Marathon, Halo has one of the best stories ever written. There's really no debate.

The Halo voice acting was amazing, especially when you compare it to those games where the voice actors say things in-game to themselves, using cheesy one-liner. I'm going to have to say your opinion isn't very good, Wiltron. Bungie has done something amazing, that very few authors and ZERO game designers have done with their games. Chief doesn't actually pull of "One-liners", he actually says things worth saying. You want bad voice acting? Go play some Perfect Dark: Zero, (some parts) of Splinter Cell, and Crimson Skies. Those have bad voice acting, but are considered by game magazines to be "Fantastic." The Halo universe and story goes much deeper than the layers you just critisized.

  • 06.01.2006 4:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Zero Or Nothing
Johnson didnt die smart one, he escaped.

DE-DE-DEEE


Well, actually... Johnson was just another charcater, and like any of the Marines, he could be killed. He wasn't invincible in Halo 1, like Halo 2, so Bungie covered that up. I doubt Bungie ever really concidered the Sarge to play a big part in H2, originally. I assume it's nothing more than a joke.

  • 06.01.2006 4:10 PM PDT

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All I'm saying is you say you have a sense of humor, and yet you label Sgt. Johnson's speeches as "corny". I respect your opinion, and there is no need to flame me with such a ferocity. I just happen to find them funny and I take offense to your statement of calling them mediocre. It's just the way they were meant to be.

  • 06.01.2006 4:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: twinkiemaker
Posted by: d3adeye
Posted by: Caer Bannog
The Sarge dying wasn't just an Easter Egg. If I recall in Halo 2 someone asks the Sarge how he got off of the Halo and the Sarge mysteriously replies something like "You don't want to know."...implying that the Sarge is a clone.


Again you are wrong. He says it is classified as was the whole Halo mission. Why you ask?


You mean the Halo that they stumbled upon while trying to get away from the Covenant? If you call falling down and finding a lump of gold a 'mission', then yes, they were on the Halo mission.

If youre going to back up your argument with geek, at least get your geek right.


no need for name calling, but lol, reading it that way does make it wrong. The mission of the Spartans and PoA before Reach was attacked was to find a Covie hierarch and capture to hopefully negotiate a truce. When Reach was attacked that pretty much went out the window. But as it says in First Strike, the PoA and all aboard were not even reported to be at Reach when it fell do to their now scrubbed classified mission.

So my bad, i meant the mission they were supposed to be on before they fled and ended up at Halo.

  • 06.01.2006 4:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Master Fox
Yeah, I'll be sure to take a lot of different skills from you such as:

Ignoring the truth even when I've been proven wrong.
Acting immature and telling people I'm always right and they're always wrong.

Is that enough or should I add a couple more to that list?

How can you honestly say Bungie is wrong about their own creation? That's like telling James Cameron that the T-101 didn't die at the end of Terminator 2: Judgment Day. They created the game. They've had all three stories planned out since the they started working on this for Microsoft. Do you honestly think they would screw up that big?

And where did you pull this "clone" theory from? Out of your ass? Must be where all that toilet paper is at that you talk about.

Do this entire forum a favor, don't bother typing anything until you have something to back it up or have the open mind to accept when you've been proven wrong. You say I'm exagerrating everything but you refuse to accept my proof. Sounds like the ramblings of a little kid. Is school out yet?


Oh, I see, I make a good and valid argument so you ignore my valid points and move on to further character assassination.

Aren't you being hypocritical telling me I'm wrong and acting like you're always right then criticizing me for believing I'm right? Please note I didn't tell anyone that I was right, I just said there were contradictions in the story and attempted to supply a good story as to clear up these nasty contradictions, just like the writers of the Halo books attempted to do (rather poorly).

Also, I never said Bungie was incorrect. I said that the writers of the books are in error.

As for you telling me what to do, it just further proves that my suspicion that you suffer from low self esteem and your only release for it is to insult and order about others, acting as if you are more important than you actually are. Well, I don't take orders from people who suffer from low self esteem because they make poor leaders and make bad decisions and write bad fan fiction.


you say that the writeers were wrong, but what you dont understand is that bungie had to approve of them for them to have been published as the OFFICIAL halo novels.
____________________________

btw, sry for double post

[Edited on 6/1/2006]

  • 06.01.2006 4:56 PM PDT
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Halo 1s' story was what actually got me hooked onto Halo and is still to this day one of the few first person shooters I love. I have a hard time playing any game if it serves no purpose. One thing Halo has done fairly consistently is drive story development. My main complaint with Halo 2 was having to split my attention from the Cheif to tolerate the arbitor. I'm hoping for a game that finishes the Master Cheif story Arc with the action driving the story forward!

  • 06.01.2006 5:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: piggy12
well u just suck a monkey -blam-!


lol

  • 06.01.2006 5:14 PM PDT

It's fun when we win and funny when we lose: Le Mediocrity
OR
Come take your verbal beating like a man in THE CAVE

And now, a word from the original poster:

I came back for a peek and I realize that my point was lost on the majority of you who talk about how good the Halo story is "for a game". I was taking a step back and comparing it to all other stories. Movies, books, games, etc. I agree it's great for a video game, it just doesn't hold up when compared to other media (though there are obviously stinkers in every media).

I still believe the dialog and character development is lacking in the game when comparing it across the board. But, like I said waaaay back on page one: It is definitely in the top 5 believeable game worlds. I'm not a hater.

And now, back to our scheduled flaming intermingled with tiny nuggets of practical debate.

  • 06.01.2006 5:29 PM PDT
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Well i respect your oppinion, but i have to disagree. Taking a step back, when you look at both the games and the books, it comes down to a pretty solid story; at least in my opinion.

But you are right on one thing. Those one-liners are funny maybe once or twice, but after that they make me wanna bang my head against the TV.
Some dialogue is crappy - (aka. beggining of Metropolis when Sarge brings tank (for all difficulties) )
Some is down right funny as hell - (aka Halo 1 Sarge in opening cinematic on legendary (part of it is in my sig) that never gets old)

  • 06.01.2006 5:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Caer Bannog
What's the most troublesome element to you? I think it's the crap that Sarge Johnson got killed Halo 1, but because it's so poorly concieved and written, he's back in Halo 2 as a more supporting character. What's more is the way the books try to put a towel over their glaringly obvious mistake, as if that's all it takes to cover up a boner of a move.

Aliens is a great movie, also.


Just to make a note, Sarge didnt die in the first Halo. No idea how you came to that conclusion but thats wrong. Also you barely even knew who he was in the first Halo, unless you read the books so H2 is his first real debut as a major character. He was more in the background then instead of now.

Now to the point. Yes the story gets cheesy in points, but it blows the crap out of other game stories and the story itself is actually pretty good. If it were just the Halo books and no game involved I would still be into it.

  • 06.01.2006 5:52 PM PDT
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here here. i would have to agree with Gman

  • 06.01.2006 5:55 PM PDT
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bad dialog? mc doesent talk lol and i got only one thing to say, shut up and get behind me...sir

  • 06.01.2006 5:56 PM PDT
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I agree. While the high-level plot with te bakstabbing and war and the Halos is top-notch, the more mundane stuff has a funky smell. Johnson is such a one-dimensional character that Rambo looks like Citizen Kane in comparsion.

  • 06.01.2006 7:01 PM PDT
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I think the story would have been better if they made it like the books and made a game from every book. Then again, the books aren't 100% canon.

  • 06.01.2006 7:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: Wiltron
And now, a word from the original poster:

I came back for a peek and I realize that my point was lost on the majority of you who talk about how good the Halo story is "for a game". I was taking a step back and comparing it to all other stories. Movies, books, games, etc. I agree it's great for a video game, it just doesn't hold up when compared to other media (though there are obviously stinkers in every media).

I still believe the dialog and character development is lacking in the game when comparing it across the board. But, like I said waaaay back on page one: It is definitely in the top 5 believeable game worlds. I'm not a hater.

And now, back to our scheduled flaming intermingled with tiny nuggets of practical debate.


I think I disagree there- I just recently read the "Fall of Reach", and I'm impressed at just how deep this storyline goes. It was one of the more enjoyable books I've read in recent years- and trust me, I read a lot.

  • 06.01.2006 9:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: Wiltron
TThere's been a lot of talk and speculation about his epic Halo story. People are worried it will be ruined or excited that it'll be the best.storyending.evar. Take a step back from the video game world for a second: It's just not that impressive as a work of fiction. It's a good enough story to warrant a play through of the campaign, and I'd even say it's better than most video game stories, but outside of it's tiny niche microcosm, it pulp fiction. A Harlequin Romance novel for video game geeks.

The dialog in the game is the worst. How many corny one-liners have we heard from MC or the Sarge? Some of them were so ridiculous I think Ahnold would have had a hard time pulling them off. The high level story of flood, brutes, prophets, etc... is great, but the low level execution is lacking believability, even in the realm of science fiction.

Anyone with me?



umm i think you need more than one point to constitute this arguement.. given the reason you do have is pretty good. But you cant complain about one liners and link a dialogue problem to the story line. thats a completely different issue. With only one arguement it just seems like your unsatisfied with the story, and dont have any fact to base your opinion on.
not that there is anything wrong with being unsatisfied with the story

  • 06.01.2006 10:09 PM PDT
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Considering how deep the storyline goes: the history of Master Chief and the Spartans, the war between Earth and the Covenant, the back story of how space was colonized etcc, I think this story holds its own with other awesome forms of media,including books,films,etc. And it's also one of my most favorite stories yet.

  • 06.01.2006 10:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ad_Hominum
I agree. While the high-level plot with te bakstabbing and war and the Halos is top-notch, the more mundane stuff has a funky smell. Johnson is such a one-dimensional character that Rambo looks like Citizen Kane in comparsion.


I think that there are some things that video games will not ever reach in terms of character development. and when it comes to a character that isnt even in half the game, when the game is a game genre that doesnt traditionally spend any time on character development I think your gonna feel as attached to that character as you would watching a commmercial.

If you read the books it does a better job showing you who the sgt is. at least good enough to change you rambo impression. but there is so much more i could say in regards to character development.. but maybe itll come up later

  • 06.01.2006 10:17 PM PDT
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"Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't"
Posted by: Ikwa
Lets Speak French!!!

lets not and say we did

Posted by: Fr4gNiNj4
(note to self: join Apple's team always, as he is a god)

Wow there is no game in the world that has a story so deep as Halo's. There are 3 books on it more coming, a movie is being made and there is going to be 3 games of Halo. The ending where johnson died was a joke if you didnt know...

Also I dont know about any one liners your talking about, Johnson is just mouthy and the chief hardly talks at all. This story goes into so much detail it gets confusing at times. What other story nvm game to people speculate and theorise about as much as Halo?

Its the story of Halo that makes it one of the greatest games ever made.

  • 06.01.2006 10:54 PM PDT
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"Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't"
Posted by: Ikwa
Lets Speak French!!!

lets not and say we did

Posted by: Fr4gNiNj4
(note to self: join Apple's team always, as he is a god)

Posted by: Caer Bannog
Posted by: Master Fox
Well Bannog the plotholes are explained in the books so perhaps you should actually consume all the information available on the subject before you start saying things about it that have obviously been proven wrong by somebody who knows what they are talking about.

I'm a professional science-fiction writer myself, and am presently working on an epic science-fiction novel. Halo is what is called a "pulp" story. No, this isn't the pasty stuff in orange juice or the Quentin Tarantino film. It's a story that is meant to be enjoyed without a lot of thought behind it. But the great thing about Halo is you have your typical human vs alien battle on the surface that a shallow person who just wants a couple hours of fun can get into. But when you delve further into the book, you find lore, mystery, suspense and a lot of subplots and subtext that you wouldn't necessarily find in a standard pulp story.

For those who are too inept to read the three books that were written in conjunction with Halo, Johnson and some others survived in a Pelican they used before Halo blew up. The ending on Legendary is nothing more than an easter egg. It's not apart of the actual story, but something that's just funny for somebody to watch and could be incentive for somebody to beat the game on legendary for the hell of it.

Halo is similar to a space opera, kind of like Star Wars is. Sure, the characters aren't as rememberable, but you should get my point. People were bashing the idea of Star Wars before it came out. They said there was no story and it was nothing more than fancy effects and big explosions. Well the same can be said about Halo if you want to look at it from that perspective.

But look at it from another perspective for a second. It's a story of survival and primal instincts on the very bare bones of the story. Even with all of humanity's advanced technologies, we became too greedy and wanted more, just like we always do. We became too many and had to spread throughout the galaxy. And when we did, we ran into the Covenant. If you notice, all of the characters have their flaws throughout the story. And both factions have their rights and their wrongs. That's why they have you play through some of the game as the Arbiter.

The Covenant are blinded by their fanatical religion and believe that the Halos are the key to the great journey. But the thing with the Civil War shows that not all of the Covenant believe in the Great Journey. The Heretics knew of the lies that the Prophets spewed, but supressed by the Arbiter. The Arbiter's flaw is he is too prideful. He would do anything for the Prophets to get his honor back that they took from him when he was disgraced.

The Chief has flaws in which he never questions his orders or his purpose. And something that I've heard people touched on is whether he's actually human or not. Yes, he is a human through and through. But whether his mentality is human. In the books he thinks about it some. He kills all the time, and is good at it. He never thinks twice about doing what he has to do. Has he become too calice to the world and the conflict?

Sergeant Johnson is a typical pulp character stuck in there for comedy relief. He's good friends with the Chief and that helps to anchor Chief's humanity in a sense. But Johnson's main purpose is comedy relief. Most movies or stories have them at some

Cortana is the female touch and semi-love interest in the story. The thing that a lot of people have been debating is whether Chief loves Cortana or just sees her as a good friend.

And then you have the lore about the rings and the mystery of them and the Forerunners. Then you also have the ramblings of Guilty Spark who talked about Reclaimers and the Flood. Where did the Flood come from? What is Gravemind? What are the Reclaimers? There are a lot of questions that are being answered and resolved slowly throughout the story. And that's something you don't necessarily have in a flat story like the main poster is describing.

I think Halo is more than your typical science-fiction story that a lot of people are trying to make it out to be. But then again, you're going to have your people who are going to bash it just by looking at the surface. There's not much you can do about that.


Whatever, I saw the Sarge die.


Wow Bannog you are a very ignorant person

  • 06.01.2006 11:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
Most of that is personal perspective though. I enjoy a book because I can spend days involved in one. All of the scenery, special effects, characters and more are custom populated by my own imagination. No casting or model rendering can give me a better "fit" than my own mind.
I totally agree. I have gotten so much time out of the many Star Wars books just imaginating what the character look like, them making acts, where they are and what places and things look like.

  • 06.02.2006 1:30 AM PDT

It's fun when we win and funny when we lose: Le Mediocrity
OR
Come take your verbal beating like a man in THE CAVE

Since it seems that almost no one is able to separate the story development in the game from the books, I'm considering reading them. I'll get back to you crazy kids eventually and let you know if it changes my outlook on the in-game story.

If the books blow I'm gonna come back here and...and...well...do this at you: *shakes fist*.

  • 06.02.2006 6:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: Soldier Of Cross
I'd like to see you come up with a better storyline.


I already did, it was about clones. And the great thing about my storyline is that there were no contradictions.

I would also like to add that since Legendary is the HARDEST mode to beat the game on, it is the one that no doubt reveals the most about the story since it is more difficult to access and secret. In fact, I think all of these graphic novels and books and fan fiction are just a COVER UP to hide that the Sarge is dead. Hell, Halo 2 might all be cover up and Halo 3 is what REALLY happened....


Posted by: Apple Cookie
Wow Bannog you are a very ignorant person


That is untrue, I am a very well read and worldly man who does not believe lies and contradictions.

You call me ignorant just because I refuse to believe everything that presents itself to me?

Isn't true ignorance shown by certain sheeple here who just swallow everything fed to them, hook, line and sinker?


[Edited on 6/2/2006]

  • 06.02.2006 7:29 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: d3adeye
Posted by: twinkiemaker
Posted by: d3adeye
Posted by: Caer Bannog
The Sarge dying wasn't just an Easter Egg. If I recall in Halo 2 someone asks the Sarge how he got off of the Halo and the Sarge mysteriously replies something like "You don't want to know."...implying that the Sarge is a clone.


Again you are wrong. He says it is classified as was the whole Halo mission. Why you ask?


You mean the Halo that they stumbled upon while trying to get away from the Covenant? If you call falling down and finding a lump of gold a 'mission', then yes, they were on the Halo mission.

If youre going to back up your argument with geek, at least get your geek right.


no need for name calling, but lol, reading it that way does make it wrong. The mission of the Spartans and PoA before Reach was attacked was to find a Covie hierarch and capture to hopefully negotiate a truce. When Reach was attacked that pretty much went out the window. But as it says in First Strike, the PoA and all aboard were not even reported to be at Reach when it fell do to their now scrubbed classified mission.

So my bad, i meant the mission they were supposed to be on before they fled and ended up at Halo.


No name calling intended. My geek level is way up there as well. I think the same goes for anyone who is here, some of them just haven't realized it yet.

  • 06.02.2006 7:31 AM PDT