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Subject: How the new armor (while is cool) needs an explanation.

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I look at it as 343 putting their own look on the Chief. Why ride the coattails of a the past company's Chief appearance. They wanted to put their own look on the Chief so they may state that they are in the driver's seat now and they control what happens and what everything looks like.

Although it would be cool if they put an explanation behind it because then it would not only satisfy the people who want a new look but people like me who care for the reason as to why.

  • 04.22.2012 12:39 PM PDT

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Posted by: Poy Poy
Posted by: archdman854
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cal160
she is an A.I. so she as acsess to all of the ship and there could be robitical arms and it would take some time defrost


That doesn't explain where the new competent to change the armor are. And people awaken once taken out of cryo, you can't just liberally take someone out, work on them and then put them back all the while they are snoozing.

This is true. There has been accounts of removing armor or clothes while in cryostasis will cause a severe cause of a "freezer-burn" effect. So he would have to defrost, which he would then wake up.


Freezerburn effect is debatable in the future. Think about the ending of Halo Wars.

Beside, who said anything about removing his armor?


Actually, John was hurt like hell when he came out of cryo during Halo: Combat Evolved (it was said in The Flood) also, in The Fall of Reach it is stated that people get in cryo naked to purposely avoid the freezer burn effect, Wars' ending was to avoid a mature rating.

  • 04.22.2012 2:20 PM PDT

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  • 04.22.2012 2:46 PM PDT

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Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
To me this would mean that if a Halo 2 Anniversary is made, the Chief would not be wearing his famous Mark VI look but instead the new armor.


then they might need to fix halo 3.

  • 04.22.2012 6:24 PM PDT

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they said they were going to have a reason

  • 04.22.2012 7:14 PM PDT

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Same armor different art style.

/truth

  • 04.22.2012 7:40 PM PDT
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The armor revealed in game looks very similar to Mk6 anyway, in fact, only the shoulder gaunlets are the main difference, at least from memory.

I think it is just artistic changes. For example, Mk5 in Reach and CE aren't carbon copies.

  • 04.22.2012 8:53 PM PDT

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Posted by: Quantam
The armor revealed in game looks very similar to Mk6 anyway, in fact, only the shoulder gaunlets are the main difference, at least from memory.

I think it is just artistic changes. For example, Mk5 in Reach and CE aren't carbon copies.


Actually there's a canonical explanation for Reach's and CE's Mark V. Reach's Mark V is the 1st version. Master Chief got the second version. Basically 2551 and 2552 models.

As far as the Chief's new armor, it looks nothing like his old armor. Maybe the legs but that's it. I can understand if they add in more detail like they did with CEA, but the armor still looked the same.
I talked to a 343i guy and he said that there's more too it there's more too it than just artistic reasons and firmware. He said that I'll just have to wait and see.
Maybe there is a pretty good reason for the change.

  • 04.22.2012 9:39 PM PDT

It's the same armor...Just graphically upgraded. CEA's armor had a few differences, but it captures the same idea.

  • 04.22.2012 10:42 PM PDT

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Posted by: S_034

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
While I was never a big fan of the traditional Mark VI, there just needs to be an actual explanation for the change in look, not ARTISTIC LICENSE.


Why not? All of us who are obsessed with the canon, and the eventual bastardization thereof, have been really nitpicky about stuff like this. "OOOH! That's not what it looked like before and it makes me grumpies!" I remember the same thing happening when Halo 3 screens showed the Chief's gauntlets were different from the ones he wore in Halo 2, and again when Emile's EVA gear didn't match up PERFECTLY design-wise with what we'd seen in Halo 3. I joined in the discussions, in fact. But the simple fact is that unless the aesthetic changes to the Chief's armor actually affect the way the armor behaves in a way that DEMANDS explanation, it can be, and, for sanity's sake, should be written off as artistic license.

This principle, of course, needs to be used within reason. Certain changes, while purely aesthetic, would certainly be too big a pill to swallow; for instance, if the Chief were to go into cryo wearing the standard Mark VI helmet, then come out wearing a CQB helmet, I'd call BS. But he's not. If you give the designers a little wiggle room (which we all should), and consider the fact that this is NOT Bungie and by giving the Chief a slightly different appearance the people at 343i are simply putting forth their own imagining of him, coupled with the visual differences that are endemic to any changes in the graphics capabilities in the game engines and so forth, it's not an intolerable change.

Just have some faith, and don't sweat the irrelevant details. I tend to disregard most of the visual stuff as far as the Canon goes anyway, because it IS so subject to artistic license. To say that the look CAN'T change without breaking Canon would mean that none of the games are Canonical, because looks change so much due to so many different things. But that's another tangent for a much longer post. The point is, it's not a difference that MAKES a difference, so it's not really worth obsessing over. The wrapping paper doesn't affect what the present is.

Wow, Someone with sanity in BU who can see the bigger picture.

Like all things in fiction, it's subject to change. bam just like that. I think some of you guys are just so caught up in looking for a literal, grounded realistic explaination that you don't see past the actual process involved when a game changes studios, changes employees etc. Art style is one reflection of this. Having no canonical explanation in the little details, is not the end of the world. The larger story is still waiting to be told.

Halo has never had a solid canon in its universe. Each medium has always contradicting each other in some aspects. Halo Legends is a good visual example of this.

  • 04.23.2012 8:49 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Perhaps we should wait until the game is released?

  • 04.23.2012 9:53 AM PDT

Agreed, I think it still looks like garbage along with the MP armour.

  • 04.23.2012 1:51 PM PDT
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I still think that this is MK VII and not VII. It looks similar at a glance but when you really look at it, it's vastly different.

It's like the Nanosuit 1 and 2. Looks the same at a glance, you start to really look at it and it's not the same.

  • 04.23.2012 2:03 PM PDT

I would chalk it up to artistic license.

  • 04.23.2012 2:37 PM PDT

I was actually really upset about that when I saw the trailer simply because it is supposed to start off right after the end of Halo 3, right? Therefore, where did Chief change his armor? Firmware upgrades I can MAYBE accept, possibly uploaded to him while he was in cryosleep. But to have entirely new armor visually too? AND to have pulled a jetpack out of his ass? No. Unacceptable IMO.

  • 04.23.2012 2:53 PM PDT


Posted by: B1ackBe1tGamer
I was actually really upset about that when I saw the trailer simply because it is supposed to start off right after the end of Halo 3, right? Therefore, where did Chief change his armor? Firmware upgrades I can MAYBE accept, possibly uploaded to him while he was in cryosleep. But to have entirely new armor visually too? AND to have pulled a jetpack out of his ass? No. Unacceptable IMO.

I agree. I can accept just the 343's perspective of wanting to change chief, but even if it's just "scifi" it would make sense to explain how he changes armor, you can't just perform that in cryo.

  • 04.23.2012 6:37 PM PDT

You guys constantly say he changed his armor...A 343i staff member already said his armor was simply graphically upgraded with Cortana making small adjustments to his HUD. Sure it looks different, but has the same principle, green armor, orange visor, and same 7'2 man.

  • 04.23.2012 8:54 PM PDT

I'm hoping that there will be an in-game cutscene or something that would provide a reason for the change from Mark 6. So, we all have to wait until Halo 4 comes out to see what kind of explanation is given as artistic licencing/cryo sleep modification is too much of a deux ex machina for the drastic change in appearance as stated by other posters and the fact that raw material is needed for such a thing to happen.

That being said, I still think the new armor for Chief and multiplayer Spartans looks incredibly odd and clunky.

  • 04.23.2012 9:57 PM PDT

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Meh I just consider it a reflection of 343i and their attitude towards artistic style in H4 and what they think of the original Halo games and Bungies artistic effort and focus. Needless change that serves no basis except knee jerk reaction from potential punters, leaving actual Halo fans scratching their heads wondering what is going on.

Sad thing is that the Mk VI change is just part of a huge list of bizarre and pointless changes; Elites, Grunts, BR, DMR, Energy Sword, Warthog and Pelican. The list will surely increase in size as we see more and more artistic interventions by 343i changing established designs for no good reason.

I'd probably feel better about it if the changes were actually good looking but they flat out look terrible, just see the Grunts for that.

  • 04.24.2012 1:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: ImmortalJoshua

To me this would mean that if a Halo 2 Anniversary is made, the Chief would not be wearing his famous Mark VI look but instead the new armor.


This makes no sense. Why would they retcon any remaster of Halo 2 to show him wearing armor from 4?

  • 04.24.2012 8:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: flamedude
Meh I just consider it a reflection of 343i and their attitude towards artistic style in H4 and what they think of the original Halo games and Bungies artistic effort and focus. Needless change that serves no basis except knee jerk reaction from potential punters, leaving actual Halo fans scratching their heads wondering what is going on.

Sad thing is that the Mk VI change is just part of a huge list of bizarre and pointless changes; Elites, Grunts, BR, DMR, Energy Sword, Warthog and Pelican. The list will surely increase in size as we see more and more artistic interventions by 343i changing established designs for no good reason.

I'd probably feel better about it if the changes were actually good looking but they flat out look terrible, just see the Grunts for that.


Just because it's a change without reason doesn't mean that it's a pointless one. A change in artists entails a change in artistic style, and I feel like if 343 wants to change things, it's more than their prerogative, it's their responsibility. Getting up into a huff about them not using the same designs Bungie did serves no purpose except to hobble their creative efforts. It says, "the way you envision this stuff is irrelevant, because even though this is your IP now, we won't be happy without everything looking the way it did when Bungie was in charge."

It's like if Picasso were painting his own imagining of Da Vinci's stuff, but people got all pissed off because Picasso were painting a Picasso version of, say, the Mona Lisa and all they really wanted was Picasso to paint "Da Vinci's Mona Lisa II." They think it's needless change for no good reason, but it's Picasso simply making his own artistic decisions while drawing his inspiration from the source material. It's not that 343i doesn't appreciate Bungie's artistic efforts, it's that they're making their own now, not simply photocopying Bungie's.

Nor would I want them to. The gameplay and storyline and appearance of Halo 4 will surely be familiar enough to still be Halo, but I am VERY excited to explore the Halo Universe through a different set of lenses, and if I know anything about art, it's that artists are a hell of a lot more creative and effective when they're creating something as they imagine it than when they have to try and fit their vision to someone else's designs.

Such being the case, I ask 343i to IGNORE US for the time being. Create what you want, and I, for one, will approach it with an open mind, just as I will approach Bungie's new IP with an open mind. If I play it and it sucks, then I'll drop it and leave it alone. But until then, I'll reserve judgement.

  • 04.24.2012 4:29 PM PDT

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Posted by: Poy Poy
Posted by: archdman854
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cal160
she is an A.I. so she as acsess to all of the ship and there could be robitical arms and it would take some time defrost


That doesn't explain where the new competent to change the armor are. And people awaken once taken out of cryo, you can't just liberally take someone out, work on them and then put them back all the while they are snoozing.

This is true. There has been accounts of removing armor or clothes while in cryostasis will cause a severe cause of a "freezer-burn" effect. So he would have to defrost, which he would then wake up.


Freezerburn effect is debatable in the future. Think about the ending of Halo Wars.

Beside, who said anything about removing his armor?

The end of Halo Wars was like that because they didn't want to show Anders and the other crew nude, as is normal for cryostasis.

  • 04.24.2012 5:46 PM PDT

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I think the grunts and brutes and armor and everything look better. I'm pretty sure that the FuD would have had enough parts to allow Cortana to change MCs exterior armor as well. The grunts look more realisitic but I hope they bring back the "Bottle of Soda" style of killing them. First you pop the cap(melee), then you "shoot" it down your throat aka killing them with bullets.
But one thing for sure, the Br is looking pretty damn awesome

[Edited on 04.24.2012 8:29 PM PDT]

  • 04.24.2012 8:23 PM PDT

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Posted by: S_034

Posted by: flamedude
Meh I just consider it a reflection of 343i and their attitude towards artistic style in H4 and what they think of the original Halo games and Bungies artistic effort and focus. Needless change that serves no basis except knee jerk reaction from potential punters, leaving actual Halo fans scratching their heads wondering what is going on.

Sad thing is that the Mk VI change is just part of a huge list of bizarre and pointless changes; Elites, Grunts, BR, DMR, Energy Sword, Warthog and Pelican. The list will surely increase in size as we see more and more artistic interventions by 343i changing established designs for no good reason.

I'd probably feel better about it if the changes were actually good looking but they flat out look terrible, just see the Grunts for that.


Just because it's a change without reason doesn't mean that it's a pointless one. A change in artists entails a change in artistic style, and I feel like if 343 wants to change things, it's more than their prerogative, it's their responsibility. Getting up into a huff about them not using the same designs Bungie did serves no purpose except to hobble their creative efforts. It says, "the way you envision this stuff is irrelevant, because even though this is your IP now, we won't be happy without everything looking the way it did when Bungie was in charge."

It's like if Picasso were painting his own imagining of Da Vinci's stuff, but people got all pissed off because Picasso were painting a Picasso version of, say, the Mona Lisa and all they really wanted was Picasso to paint "Da Vinci's Mona Lisa II." They think it's needless change for no good reason, but it's Picasso simply making his own artistic decisions while drawing his inspiration from the source material. It's not that 343i doesn't appreciate Bungie's artistic efforts, it's that they're making their own now, not simply photocopying Bungie's.

Nor would I want them to. The gameplay and storyline and appearance of Halo 4 will surely be familiar enough to still be Halo, but I am VERY excited to explore the Halo Universe through a different set of lenses, and if I know anything about art, it's that artists are a hell of a lot more creative and effective when they're creating something as they imagine it than when they have to try and fit their vision to someone else's designs.

Such being the case, I ask 343i to IGNORE US for the time being. Create what you want, and I, for one, will approach it with an open mind, just as I will approach Bungie's new IP with an open mind. If I play it and it sucks, then I'll drop it and leave it alone. But until then, I'll reserve judgement.


I get what you're saying and that is a totally understandable stance. Personally though I find it a strange mentality from the perspective of the 343i artists.

Canonically changes to UNSC vehicles and weapons and armor, the introduction of S-IVs, the changes to Grunt and Elite armor is easily justifiable. The change to the Chief though is bizarre and strange. I understand that it is 343i and their reinterpretation of the Chief but you would never see something like that with Darth Vader. Halo 4 is not a reboot but a continuation, this isn't Star Trek where the Enterprise gets a visual overhaul but a sequel to a game which it is meant to be linked to.

By trade I am a graphic designer so for me I am much more picky and critical of artistic style and consistency. For me the change is jarring and hard to justify but not only that I feel that the new designs are simply BAD.

  • 04.25.2012 2:14 PM PDT

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