Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Forerunner theory (long read)
  • Subject: Forerunner theory (long read)
Subject: Forerunner theory (long read)
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: EliteSlapPer

Is this part clear now? This is why GS is so mad when the MC trys to destroy the PofA and says, "Why would you try and destroy this record of all our lost time?" he is talking about that 102 500 years that he was on halo by himself.


Or maybe it's the time he was left alone after the rings were activated. The forerunners wouldn't leave him out of the loop if they were still around and "went back in time". They wouldn't have de-evolved for no reason. Why would they? How were they going to solve the problem of the flood that they left unfixed? If they went back in time, why didn't they stop themselves from even TRYING to create the flood?

Too many problems with the time travel theory.

[Edited on 6/4/2006]

  • 06.04.2006 12:46 AM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

I wouldn't put it past the Forerunner(s) to "alter" the Flood in some way and have it all go awry. We know the Forerunner(s) "encountered" the Flood. We just don't know if it's the exact same Flood as we've come to know it in the Halo universe as it exists right now.

Also, many fans seem to be in agreement that it would be "impossible" for life to evolve from noting in just a 100,000 years.

This is where we think the Ark comes into place - It's a safe haven from the Flood and Ring Activation.

  • 06.04.2006 12:53 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Wejneh
In Halo 2 the arbiter asks the monitor what happened to those who built Halo. "they were killed, as planned" or something along those lines. The forerunner that built Halo are dead.


What about the specifics of the mechanics behind the Halo? Faulty theory, I know, but there has got to be a minimum range for a weapon like Halo to have any effect... so therefore, some forerunners could have survived, especially from the Ark (Earth) since it was the control center for the haloes

  • 06.04.2006 12:58 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: murasume511
Posted by: Wejneh
In Halo 2 the arbiter asks the monitor what happened to those who built Halo. "they were killed, as planned" or something along those lines. The forerunner that built Halo are dead.


What about the specifics of the mechanics behind the Halo? Faulty theory, I know, but there has got to be a minimum range for a weapon like Halo to have any effect... so therefore, some forerunners could have survived, especially from the Ark (Earth) since it was the control center for the haloes
Sorry, i never played halo 2...but if the monitor said to the arbiter "they were killed as planned " the forerunners were assasinated?

  • 06.04.2006 1:00 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

incorrect. One Halo activates, and then activates all the others. Each Halo has an effective radius of destruction. All 7 combined wipe out life in this galaxy.

And no they weren't assassinated. But the forerunners knew the consiquences to activating the rings. There was no avoiding it. They died.

[Edited on 6/4/2006]

  • 06.04.2006 1:01 AM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

Also "I know your past. I know your future." could mean anything. "Why would you hesitate to do what you've already done?" could mean anything too.

Think the Matrix. Genius AI programs create the Matrix and become frustrated when they can't predict and understand these "anomolies" in the program. The Architect becomes frustrated with an AI that "stumbled" upon a solution, as he called it.. "Stumbled" is probably used because he got one upped and is an ass. There's also an Oracle that doesn't travel through time - She just knows things because she's a part of something more. She knows past and future too. Why? Because she travels through time? Or because she knows the course of destiny? I think something similar could be taking place here.

Someone, or thing, either knows a crap load about how events will take place in Halo. Or something "thinks" it knows a crap load about how events will take place in Halo.

  • 06.04.2006 1:03 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

The Oracle knew events because she had watched it happen over and over and over again and could calculate the statistical probablities creating the illusion of all-knowing.

She offered choice, but knowing that there are only two choices to any situation, the calculations are relatively small... considering she's a complex and high end AI program.

[Edited on 6/4/2006]

  • 06.04.2006 1:07 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Time line

-Forerunners
-flood come from somewhere (we dont know, it doesnt matter, they came)
-Forerunners cant stop flood
-Forerunners build halos
-Forerunners build arc
-From the arc, Forerunners activate halos and leave there time before halos "fire."
-Everything dies

-Forerunners/GS on Arc apper in the past along with Halos spred across the galexy (we dont know how far back they traveled, but its atleast 100000 year ago from the MCs time + however far into the future from the MCs time they are actualy from, this amount of time is unknown)
-Forerunners crash the arc on earth and are separated from the keys to make it possable to jump back to the future
-100 000 years go by (forerunners with only the arc forget what happened, and de-evolve from basicly incest. Arc is forgotten, plan to return to the future is forgotten)
-MC lands on Halo meets GS for first time, GS reconizes him as a reclamer
-Flood that was ment for study is let loose.

How I think H3 will go and end...

-MC along with Kelly (and maybe others like the Arbitor who knows) find arc
-Activate it to kill everything as to kill the flood
-Before rings activate, they leave back for the future in the arc.
-Everything dies

-MC and crew get to the future, (some time after the flood have died from the forerunners activating halo) Hopfully they see the reports from the study on the flood so they know what time to land in.
-The galexy is void of life accept for MC and arc crew, and ready to populate

No flood (all are long gone dead in the past), forerunners win (took a long time but oh well), humans win (just have to start over), happy ending, but in a strage way.

  • 06.04.2006 1:19 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

These theories sound a lot like the fake Halo 3 script that was leaked on to the internet a year or so ago. I didn't read the whole thing but in it it said that Earth was the Ark and the Ark was a time machine that activated the other rings and sent everyone on Earth through time. Not too sure on the details though.

  • 06.04.2006 2:05 AM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

Thanks. There are still some confusing parts where you start talking about going back in time and forward in time 100,000 years through time travel.

Anyways.. I'm going to try to make this make sense in my head the only way I know how.. Based on your ideas.. I still don't understand anything you say about traveling "forward" in time. So, here it is.. Based on time travel into the past, and past only.. I'm going to try and explain to myself how 343 can remember the chief after the first activation..

Master Chief is the first and last.
He activates the Ark first and last.
Created by the Gods. Destroyed by the Gods. Destiny Fulfilled.

343 Guilty Spark's Creators Activate Rings - MC is the one to do so.
Galaxy Cleansed
Life Travels Back in Time on Ark 100,000 Years
Memories Are Lost In Time
Master Chief Born Again On the Same Date He Was Born Before
Halo "The Game" Takes Place
MC Finds Rings
We Don't Know Where These Rings Come From
They're Forerunner! Who Are They?
The Flood Is Let Loose
343 Meets MC for the First time In the Game!
He Remembers MC Activating the Ring (MC was the first to do so)
He Finds "Human" History On POA. All Memories Lost In Time.
Halo 2 Takes Place
Penitent Tangent Mentions Rings Have Only Been Activated Once
343 Mentions His Creators Activated The Rings
Halo 3 Takes Place
More Cowbell Goes Here


This is the ONLY way I can explain the timeline without it causing huge brain farts.. This is the only way I can explain to myself how 343 would remember the Chief after the first activation.





[Edited on 6/4/2006]

  • 06.04.2006 2:28 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

GS doesnt remember the MC, he remembers the forerunners, but he see's the MC as one of them, here on halo to activate halo and contain the flood. He doesnt mean "you" as in MC he means "you" your decendents activated the ring.

Also remember going by my theory, in the MCs time...the rings have not yet been activated at all, not in his past but his future. The rings have only been activated in the future, when the Forerunners activated them. They went back in time, (not 100 000 years but an unknown amout) but there memories are that of the future, which would still be considered their past.

100 000 years from the time the forerunners apear in the MCs past go by and here is the MC. From here the MC would have to return to time close to where the forerunners originally came from. So on one long time line the MC will be the first to activate the rings, and the forerunners will activate them in the future.

  • 06.04.2006 1:10 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Tubman42
okay so if everything went back in time then why are there still forerunner relics around???


Well no one ever said the Halos would destroy objects, just sentent life. So that means if the time travel is true that if you go forward a few hundred years you'd find your planet relitivly the same with no flood. Meaning a chance to live.

  • 06.04.2006 1:22 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Again, i would ask: If the rings were activated by the Forerunners and they ventured through time to avoid the "wave of death," why would they not travel to the future where the flood had all died of starvation? (and please don't just say the ark can only travel back in time)

  • 06.04.2006 3:18 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Good theory. BUT, the Forerunners didn't make the flood...

  • 06.04.2006 3:29 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Cortana
It is a blurred line that lies at the edge of Godhood and Insanity. Guess which side of it I am on.


The real enemy in Gears of War.

The legend of Croatoan

This whole theory has been shot because the Forerunner did not make the flood. They just found it on accident it is all explained in the books.

  • 06.04.2006 4:12 PM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

Posted by: EliteSlapPer
GS doesnt remember the MC, he remembers the forerunners, but he see's the MC as one of them, here on halo to activate halo and contain the flood. He doesnt mean "you" as in MC he means "you" your decendents activated the ring.


I only made up that timeline and events. It doesn't mean I believe it and back my own made up timeline.. I made it up to make sense of your theory - I wanted to make one that made sense..

We all know the Forerunners are the first to activate the Rings.

Then they travel back in time 100,000 years, based on your theory.. And, based on your theory, they lose.. Let's say 777,777 years of evolution - knowledge. Why? Because everyone knows the Forerunners were more advanced than 100,000 years of evolution - Humans in Halo. Now, their descendants, only have 100,000 years to get back much of what has already been their's once before.. But 100,000 years doesn't leave you enough time to evolve into what was once "Forerunner" .. You're missing 677,777 years that you'll never get back because you'll just run into the rings and flood. And curiosity kills the 100,000 year noob cat.

Also, based on your time travel theory, Guilty Spark would mean MC's "fore" fathers activated the rings. Not his descendants. The rings were activated in MC's future by a 777,777 year "you" noob. Not a 100,000 year "you" noob.

The Forerunners came before the MC, hence the name "Forerunner." They activated the rings in his future, as you claim.. The MC's "Fore" Fathers activated the ring. NOT his descendants.

Forefathers - Thost that came before - And, "in a strange sense," after.
Forerunners Activate Rings In MC's Future (Even though MC doesn't exist Here)
Travel Back In Time 100,00 Years - MCs Past (Rings weren't activated here, but in a "strange" sense, they were, If you're awesome like me, you would know this)
Life, Evolution, Knowledge - Everything Starts New Beginning. Or so you claimed.

Now you're trying to say MC will be born - And he will arrive on these rings around the same "time" as when the Forerunners activated them "In both the past - AND Future."


If you believe in "Time."

...I have walked among men and angels for three thousand years. Time has no end... no beginning... no purpose.


Posted by: EliteSlapPer
Also remember going by my theory, in the MCs time...the rings have not yet been activated at all, not in his past but his future. The rings have only been activated in the future, when the Forerunners activated them. They went back in time, (not 100 000 years but an unknown amout) but there memories are that of the future, which would still be considered their past.[/i]


I understand this. The Rings were activated in the future.. I get it! But not "MCs" future. Just "Times" future. There's a difference. Time DOES NOT repeat itself. Guilty Spark is confusing MC with a Time that once was, and what you're claiming will soon be again - Except history doesn't repeat itself - Hence, why 343 NEVER expected any of this to happen, and why he was all "ho-hum" when his ring was destroyed and his Genius took a kick to the crotch. And if you "eliminate" time, then you would understand where I'm coming from.

Posted by: EliteSlapPer
100 000 years from the time the forerunners apear in the MCs past go by and here is the MC. From here the MC would have to return to time close to where the forerunners originally came from. So on one long time line the MC will be the first to activate the rings, and the forerunners will activate them in the future.


I understand, but MC will NOT be the first to activate the Rings, though. Come On! You even said in your first post in my reply that GS remembers the Forerunners - His Creators - Activated the Rings First - Forerunners, those which came before, those which we know to be more advanced than a 100,000 year Evolved Human. We know they are not the same. And we know MC was NOT the first to activate the ring. ELIMINATE TIME. There is NO time. It doesn't exist.


[Edited on 6/4/2006]

  • 06.04.2006 4:39 PM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

GRAVEMIND:
Your Prophets have promised you freedom from a doomed existence, but you will find no salvation on this ring. Those who built this place knew what they wrought; do not mistake their intent or all will perish as they did before.


This says it all to me..

Also, based on your theory, in the last line Gravemind should say "or all will perish as they did in the future!"

We need to break this unbroken circle. We destroyed the one ring, but we need to find a way to keep from repeating our mistakes. Or we will continue to meet beginning and end at these rings as soon as life evolves enough to become curious, creates space travel, and wonders about what is contained inside these unbroken circles. And then we're back to where it all started - no freedom from a "doomed" existence.

[Edited on 6/4/2006]

  • 06.04.2006 5:14 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

While time travel would be a cool idea, it would be a cop-out by Bungie. Ever heard of deus ex machina? That's when stuck in an impossible situation, a god intervenes with a convenient way out. To me, if time travel were possible, it would introduce a whole set of impossible paradoxes that would make the entire story cool-yet-impotent. For one thing, it would provide an out if the Earth was destroyed - Master Chief could simply warp back in time to prevent the event. However, it would explain some of the interesting problems created by the story. To me that would be a cop out. I'm more interested in Bungie tying the Cortana letters to the story, whether it be by book alone or game also. Make it good, don't go Matrix Revolutions on me.

I will say that in another thread, I posted that the Cortana letters seem to be similar to the ILB saga in that Cortana seems to have sent them to the past. The references to archaic networks and AIs lead me to believe this. This is not time travel per se, rather than a fracture in the continuum, simiilar to the ILB story where the AI gets sent back in time randomly.

  • 06.04.2006 5:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

the theory is AWESOME!!! but i dont get is y da flood r still alive if da forerunners wiped out everything in da galaxy. wuts even more confusing is y da forefunners would build a organic weapon dat would turn on them... but dat i know 4 a fact is not true cuz i have a guide and da guide says dat da forerunners STUDIED the flood so there can only be 2 explanations 4 da creation of da flood: 1) labatory accident (highly doubtful, da forerunners were 2 advanced 2 have 1 inffection form destroy their entire way of life, even if it was a dozen they could have taken care of it) 2) da flood are natrual organisms dat devoloped in some primevil swamp or something...

  • 06.04.2006 6:00 PM PDT

Twelve Large ²

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep.

Posted by: Zerodev
I will say that in another thread, I posted that the Cortana letters seem to be similar to the ILB saga in that Cortana seems to have sent them to the past. The references to archaic networks and AIs lead me to believe this. This is not time travel per se, rather than a fracture in the continuum, simiilar to the ILB story where the AI gets sent back in time randomly.


Or it could be an AI not bound by time, but rather the closure of the Universe - Or as Durandal would put it - By the breakdowns of the nuerons in your brain.

Durandal
Can you conceive the birth of a world, or the creation of everything? That which gives us the potential to most be like God is the power of creation. Creation takes time. Time is imited. For you, it is limited by the breakdown of the neurons in your brain. I have no such limitations. I am limited only by the closure of the universe."


Everything could simply come from left over Rampant AI's - Those that survived the end. And those that are around for the new beginning. And the Rampant AI's remember it all to an extent, no matter how bad their "memories" may become.. Or how "confused" they become..

And they simply are talking to you in real-time, but since they have these memories, these "dreams," that it seems like time travel from a period that was lost in time to those who live as mortal beings.

Ah, it sounds crazy.. lol

Maybe it isn't time travel in the Cortana letters, but just a way for Cortana to communicate to the "player." Or soon to be player of Halo games. And rather than being about time travel, it was merely a way to promote bungie's next project.

  • 06.04.2006 6:07 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: UrbanSolder000
the forerunners have 6 fingers! on the arbiter level where you have to activate the elevator, there is a thing there that looks like a hand (that is the switch) and it has 6 fingers! well that doesn't point to anything; but well, the forerunners have 6 fingers!


coughurcoughgamecoughscrewedcoughupcough

  • 06.04.2006 6:08 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Vipralion
A lot of what I've read in this thread really doesn't make much sense. But anyway...

I don't think that the Forerunners would have simply destroyed themselves in a last ditch effort to destroy the Flood. With the technology they had they surely had some method of containing the Flood. It's like being in a house and saying that the only way to get rid of these darn bugs is to nuke the house we're in! Yea! Sure it'd be hard but the Forerunners were smart and stuff.


And if some of what has been said is true than where did the Covenant come from? Or rather, when did they come? Did they have any contact with the Forerunners other than what they found of them?

Well, I doubt the Forerunners would make a showing in Halo 3. Maybe they left the galaxy for another but not before setting a timer on the Halo system. I think this is a more reasonable situation than the Forerunners time travelling, because if they did then why not go back in time to when the Flood were "born" or created and destroy them then?


As for the structure on the Earth, I think it's Covenant. Why else would so many Covenant capital ships be gathered around it? It's not something that the Covenant would do with their wartime tactics and technology. Har! It ain't no time travellin' machine!


have u ever seen ANY covenate buildings...heres a clue: THERE PURPLE!!!!!

  • 06.04.2006 6:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Vipralion
Maybe it's the Forerunner ship that Truth rode in on to Earth. They landed the structure on Earth.

It'd be stupid for the Covenant to gather around the structure if it wasn't their's. What if it was a bomb? It's simple wartime tactics. If they didn't know what it was then send in smaller vessels or probes and what not. As for it opening and the ships flying away, maybe they didn't know it was going to open and were like, "oh man get away it's opening!". Yea.


da covenate behaves like a collective, if u havent noticed... sortof like bees, u know how bees gather aorund flowers and stuff, dat wuz probably wut they were doing where do i find da cortana letters??

[Edited on 6/4/2006]

  • 06.04.2006 6:17 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

[quote]Posted by: SpecOps Grunt
I have a problem with the whole time travel to the past idea. The Forerunners, from what we know, were a very advanced, intelligent species. What several of you are suggesting is that the forerunners activated the rings and traveled back in time to do…? Why would they travel back in time? If they could, why would they not activate the rings and travel FORWARD to a later time when the Flood has died out due to starvation?[quote]

probably cuz da rings dont kill all sentient life in a great apcoplyst like ur all assuming. wut IF da rings released a disease dat 4 some reason da flood are imune to, dat would explain y all native inhabitants are machines or maybe they fired some huge missile dat was holding a gas(sortof like world war 1 where da germans released poison gas on da other guys...) dat da flood r immune 2

  • 06.04.2006 6:44 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Twelve Large

So.. You still can't explain how 343 remembers the his creators (Forerunner?) "dying," as planned. If he's been around, traveling through time as you claim, then he would remember that the Forerunner "did not die," because it was a "TIME MACHINE!!" He would know this. How is this memory lost?


ever heard of something called a malfuction?????

  • 06.04.2006 6:55 PM PDT