Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Bloom or no Bloom?
  • Subject: Bloom or no Bloom?
Subject: Bloom or no Bloom?
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PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE. PRYING OPEN MY THIRD EYE.

Bloom adds a big random factor right into a competitive shooter. It sucks and should be taken out.

  • 05.15.2012 12:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3

Posted by: TS Legaia
I do realise it, but it should never be in "that aspect".

And yet you can pace your shots all you want and the opponent could spam a little faster and hope for the best and beat you. Even the most ideal pace for that specific distance can be beaten by luck. And in that moment it's not in your hands, but in the hands of the almighty game mechanics, which has randomised the outcome of where the shot will hit.

Then no offense, but you sort of don't know what you're talking about. Bloom is a mechanic that utilizes pacing your shots, a skill that you have to learn and master. The problem is that you can't have bloom without the mechanic of spread, which is basically luck. But there is no getting rid of spread. So if you get rid of bloom, you do get rid of SOME luck factor by decreasing spread (luck will always be a factor), but you also get rid of ALL the skill needed to pace shots. It all comes down to how important you consider pacing compared to spread. And like I said, being a long distance shooter, I prefer the bloom because it takes more skill long range from pacing and there is less luck from spread. And the DMR is supposed to be a more long range weapon than the BR, but people haven't made that connection. It is pretty damn easy killing someone close range with the pistol instead of the DMR.
I was talking about this quote, I thought that was pretty obvious.

  • 05.15.2012 5:29 AM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3
I LOVE BLOOM


Was easy to understand that part after opening your service record.

  • 05.15.2012 5:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3

Posted by: xMCxVSxARBITERx
I agree with TS Legaia.
The less luck, the better!

And I think it is you who sort of do not know what you are talking about. Are we both talking about the same game, Halo: Reach?

Because in almost every game I play during 100% bloom someone in the game can almost always spam while others (me) with worse connection can not. I have also noticed that you can not spam as much when you are host...

So spamming is not only judged by skill but also by luck and host/connection... Even worse lol.


Now I get the feeling you didn't even read my -blam!- post. First of all, connection has no direct impact on bloom. It's your actual shots that don't register. Don't worry, neither Bungie nor 343i added some secret DMR for hosts only. It's the same gun. Second, I told you why I prefer bloom in my playstyle. Your thing about 65% skill and 35% luck may be true for you. I -blam!- get it. But longer ranges make bloom take more skill and less luck. Chances are, the closer you are to your opponent, the more you hate bloom. But of course, you probably read "chances" and instantly ignored everything else.
You should read page 2 of this topic when I replied to eos, perhaps that will make things clearer.

And this what I said before to you, but you seem to disregard it somehow.
Yet you can pace your shots all you want and the opponent could spam a little faster and hope for the best and beat you. Even the most ideal pace for that specific distance can be beaten by luck. And in that moment it's not in your hands, but in the hands of the almighty game mechanics, which has randomised the outcome of where the shot will hit.

This is valid for every distance, these are facts, while you provide an opinion. In my playstyle I prefer bloom.

Then you make a statement; But longer ranges make bloom take more skill and less luck, which is countered by the fact above.

  • 05.15.2012 5:54 AM PDT
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I choose dominance (a.k.a no bloom).

  • 05.15.2012 5:54 AM PDT

A competitive players main goal is to win.
A casuals main goal is to have fun regardless of whether that results in a win or loss.
It has nothing to do with individual skill or knowledge, it has to do with the reason you play.

No bloom.

85% bloom is somewhat tolerable, but Vanilla Reach's bloom is just horrible.

[Edited on 05.15.2012 7:50 AM PDT]

  • 05.15.2012 7:50 AM PDT


Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3

Posted by: xMCxVSxARBITERx
I agree with TS Legaia.
The less luck, the better!

And I think it is you who sort of do not know what you are talking about. Are we both talking about the same game, Halo: Reach?

Because in almost every game I play during 100% bloom someone in the game can almost always spam while others (me) with worse connection can not. I have also noticed that you can not spam as much when you are host...

So spamming is not only judged by skill but also by luck and host/connection... Even worse lol.


Now I get the feeling you didn't even read my -blam!- post. First of all, connection has no direct impact on bloom. It's your actual shots that don't register. Don't worry, neither Bungie nor 343i added some secret DMR for hosts only. It's the same gun. Second, I told you why I prefer bloom in my playstyle. Your thing about 65% skill and 35% luck may be true for you. I -blam!- get it. But longer ranges make bloom take more skill and less luck. Chances are, the closer you are to your opponent, the more you hate bloom. But of course, you probably read "chances" and instantly ignored everything else.


Incorrect. LOL Do some research first.

  • 05.15.2012 9:04 AM PDT

this thread is half a month old.

  • 05.15.2012 9:08 AM PDT


Posted by: TS Legaia

Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3

Posted by: xMCxVSxARBITERx
I agree with TS Legaia.
The less luck, the better!

And I think it is you who sort of do not know what you are talking about. Are we both talking about the same game, Halo: Reach?

Because in almost every game I play during 100% bloom someone in the game can almost always spam while others (me) with worse connection can not. I have also noticed that you can not spam as much when you are host...

So spamming is not only judged by skill but also by luck and host/connection... Even worse lol.


Now I get the feeling you didn't even read my -blam!- post. First of all, connection has no direct impact on bloom. It's your actual shots that don't register. Don't worry, neither Bungie nor 343i added some secret DMR for hosts only. It's the same gun. Second, I told you why I prefer bloom in my playstyle. Your thing about 65% skill and 35% luck may be true for you. I -blam!- get it. But longer ranges make bloom take more skill and less luck. Chances are, the closer you are to your opponent, the more you hate bloom. But of course, you probably read "chances" and instantly ignored everything else.
You should read page 2 of this topic when I replied to eos, perhaps that will make things clearer.

And this what I said before to you, but you seem to disregard it somehow.
Yet you can pace your shots all you want and the opponent could spam a little faster and hope for the best and beat you. Even the most ideal pace for that specific distance can be beaten by luck. And in that moment it's not in your hands, but in the hands of the almighty game mechanics, which has randomised the outcome of where the shot will hit.

This is valid for every distance, these are facts, while you provide an opinion. In my playstyle I prefer bloom.

Then you make a statement; But longer ranges make bloom take more skill and less luck, which is countered by the fact above.


Yes, I understand EXACTLY what you're trying to say. It's a fact. No matter what, bloom includes luck. That's the spread aspect. But you're completely ignoring that pacing is a skill too. It's the second half of bloom. So it's a fact that bloom also includes skill when pacing shots. From further away, the pacing aspect takes more skill, and getting lucky from spread happens less often. Obviously, I'd get pissed if someone 10 miles away rapid spams a 5sk when I'm trying to pace. But what are the chances of that? That's like saying that they should remove sniper rifles from the game because it's possible for someone to spin around with their eyes closed but get a lucky headshot. At least, to me, in longer range DMR battles. Yes, I hate bloom close-mid range too. Switching to a pistol usually works better for me.

  • 05.15.2012 1:57 PM PDT


Posted by: Kira Onime

Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3
I LOVE BLOOM


Was easy to understand that part after opening your service record.

Oh. Did you go to see that my One Shot commendation is nearly equal to yours in about a third of the experience? Obviously I'm doing something right with the DMR compared to you. Not gonna lie, I think we can both agree that I'm at least good enough to have a say in this argument without being shut down by -blam!-s like you.

  • 05.15.2012 2:10 PM PDT

Okay, let me just put it this way because I don't think you guys completely see what I'm trying to say. You all think that adding luck decreases that exact amount of skill. But they're two separate things, even if they're opposites. I even included poorly drawn diagrams :) tl;dr for you lazies too

-Person A is more fit for Halo Reach. He has a great shot as well as knowing how to pace it (since pacing is a skill).
-Person B is more fit for Halo 3. He has a great shot, but doesn't know anything about pacing.
-Person C just plain sucks. Can't shoot for his life.

We can agree that Person A is a better player than Person B(in terms of 1v1 shooting) because he learned the skill of pacing.

Close range, maybe the distance of the sword ledge on Countdown
1) Person A vs Person C would be really annoying. That's because Person C could get lucky even though he spams when he should miss. Person C could potentially win maybe 20% of DMR fights against Person A even though he sucks and should be completely missing. Without bloom, Person A wins every single fight against Player C.

2) Person A vs Person B wouldn't really matter much. Without bloom, you both win 50% of fights against each other, since they are both equally good shots. With bloom, Person A would win maybe 60% of fights.

So in close range, that 20% higher chance to get a kill by luck (spread) is not worth the 10% higher chance to get a kill by skill (pacing). Person A would want bloom removed.

Long range, maybe from one wall on the end of the sniper hallway on Reflection all the way to the other side's wall.
1) Person A vs Person C is still kinda annoying. There's still maybe a 10% chance that Person C gets a kill out of sheer dumb luck.

2) Person A vs Person B would be much better. Since Person A knows how to pace, they may win maybe about 70% of fights against Person B.

In long range, Person A, being the most skilled player of all, might prefer bloom. That 10% chance of dying to luck still sucks, but a 20% higher chance to win your fights since you actually learned to pace is worth it.



tl;dr Although bloom does introduce luck to it, it also includes skill. The further you are from your opponent, the lower the chance of luck due to spread they will have, and the higher the chance that your skill of pacing will pay off.

  • 05.15.2012 3:19 PM PDT
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Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3

Yes, I understand EXACTLY what you're trying to say. It's a fact. No matter what, bloom includes luck. That's the spread aspect. But you're completely ignoring that pacing is a skill too. It's the second half of bloom. So it's a fact that bloom also includes skill when pacing shots. From further away, the pacing aspect takes more skill, and getting lucky from spread happens less often. Obviously, I'd get pissed if someone 10 miles away rapid spams a 5sk when I'm trying to pace. But what are the chances of that? That's like saying that they should remove sniper rifles from the game because it's possible for someone to spin around with their eyes closed but get a lucky headshot. At least, to me, in longer range DMR battles. Yes, I hate bloom close-mid range too. Switching to a pistol usually works better for me.
Pacing itself isn't that hard actually and what it contributes to skill is neglectable since there is always a chance that luck will beat skill.

  • 05.15.2012 4:17 PM PDT


Posted by: TS Legaia



, [/quote]Pacing itself isn't that hard actually and what it contributes to skill is neglectable since there is always a chance that luck will beat skill.


luck? what? you can't have luck in games! heck! luck is nonexistent in life! how can there be luck in progaming? it just repeats itself over and over.

  • 05.15.2012 4:22 PM PDT
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Posted by: SpongyMallard7

Posted by: TS Legaia



, [/quote]Pacing itself isn't that hard actually and what it contributes to skill is neglectable since there is always a chance that luck will beat skill.


luck? what? you can't have luck in games! heck! luck is nonexistent in life! how can there be luck in progaming? it just repeats itself over and over.
You know I was talking about luck in the aiming aspect of the game, which programmed to give you a certain hit% in the game, which makes it basically a coinflip. Luck such as a grenade from across the map on your head is inevitable it is decided by 2 people making certain choices that happen to collide this way. Don't be a dumbass and know the difference.

  • 05.15.2012 4:29 PM PDT

Posted by: SpongyMallard7
how can there be luck in progaming?

There isn't really. It's impossible for software to create true randomness.

Bloom is pseudo-random.

  • 05.15.2012 4:57 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3
Oh. Did you go to see that my One Shot commendation is nearly equal to yours in about a third of the experience?


You have 11k 1shot commendation in about 1.8k MM games.
I have 12k 1shots in 1.5k games.

Math ain't my strong point, but I have this feeling my ratio would be somewhat higher than yours unlike you claim it to be.

Ok let's go to the next part.


Posted by: NiRaC4ntSnip3
Not gonna lie, I think we can both agree that I'm at least good enough to have a say in this argument without being shut down by -blam!-s like you.


Good is a very subjective term.
According to most on B.net, your opinion will be treated as a staff captain trying to explain a general how to play, which, quite frankly, isn't that far off.




Have an opinion? Fine.
Have a opinion flawed based on flawed experience? K fine.
Show that opinion around as if it was actual fact? lolNope.

  • 05.15.2012 5:44 PM PDT

Posted by: Tom T
Prolonged exposure to this forum is bad for your health.


Posted by: aBIueBooksheIf
because I like pen­is.

source


Posted by: SpongyMallard7
luck? what? you can't have luck in games! heck! luck is nonexistent in life! how can there be luck in progaming? it just repeats itself over and over.


Player generated luck = fine.

Game generated luck *in the case of FPS* = retarded.

  • 05.15.2012 5:45 PM PDT
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Even with bloom...it was never a coin-flip.

Coin flips = 50/50 chance. There is not that much luck introduced because of bloom.

Anyway.

Let's use a completely different genre of game to get a point across.

Let's say Halo is an RTS game.
This means I have NO control over how a battle unfolds between one unit of mine vs one unit of the enemies. Because I can't make my little guy down there aim any better than his guy.

In that case. that battle litteraly does come down to a coin flip.

But this is an RTS. How do you overcome and become dominate in a game such as an RTS in which your aiming skill has no possible effect on the outcome of the battle?

By being better at the game of tactics and numbers.

This does not suddenly change just because its now an FPS game.
Take all aiming skill out of an FPS game and what does it become? An RTS in First person format.

This is why Bloom in any capacity is reasonable and your insistent whining about it is unreasonable. especially when you consider that you are complaing about 1 singular weapon out of the whole lineup of offensive tools available to you.

Grenades alone invalidate all your claims against bloom screwing you over. Because grenades influence battles so greatly that your "my 5sk was beat by his out of luck" never happens. Because the grenade does most the damn work and turns it into a battle of who got lucky with their grenade. Not about who got lucky with their DMR spam.

You're like poker players complaing about losing one hand of poker.... If you're a proffesional those occasional loses don't mean -blam!-.

Luck creates excitement. Remember that. Before Halo becomes the most boring game in existance.

[Edited on 05.16.2012 11:52 AM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 11:43 AM PDT
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  • Intrepid Heroic Member

Posted by: aBlueBookshelf
global warming isn't proven and won't be - it's more of a political play for funding for "research"


Posted by: MR E0S
Even with bloom...it was never a coin-flip.

Coin flips = 50/50 chance. There is not that much luck introduced because of bloom.

Anyway.

Let's use a completely different genre of game to get a point across.

Let's say Halo is an RTS game.
This means I have NO control over how a battle unfolds between one unit of mine vs one unit of the enemies. Because I can't make my little guy down there aim any better than his guy.

In that case. that battle litteraly does come down to a coin flip.

But this is an RTS. How do you overcome and become dominate in a game such as an RTS in which your aiming skill has no possible effect on the outcome of the battle?

By being better at the game of tactics and numbers.

This does not suddenly change just because its now an FPS game.
Take all aiming skill out of an FPS game and what does it become? An RTS in First person format.

This is why Bloom in any capacity is reasonable and your insistent whining about it is unreasonable. especially when you consider that you are complaing about 1 singular weapon out of the whole lineup of offensive tools available to you.

Grenades alone invalidate all your claims against bloom screwing you over. Because grenades influence battles so greatly that your "my 5sk was beat by his out of luck" never happens. Because the grenade does most the damn work and turns it into a battle of who got lucky with their grenade. Not about who got lucky with their DMR spam.


lol. You still don't get it.

  • 05.16.2012 11:51 AM PDT
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Wow, clone. Lurk much?

How many seconds passed before I was done editing and you were in here quoting it putting your lol at the end?

[Edited on 05.16.2012 11:53 AM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 11:52 AM PDT
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  • Intrepid Heroic Member

Posted by: aBlueBookshelf
global warming isn't proven and won't be - it's more of a political play for funding for "research"

No. Just banned for 2 months.

  • 05.16.2012 11:53 AM PDT

lol

  • 05.16.2012 11:55 AM PDT
  • gamertag: MR E0S
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Halo: Reach is the beginning of a new age for gaming.
It proves that developers can get away with punishing their players instead of fixing their game....and yet the fanboys will still sing praises to them.

-blam!- all of you fanboys!

Anyway, whats not to get...

Story so far

Competitives: I hate halo, because the DMR does not function like I think it should.


Remember... This is just one weapon out of many available. And you have this entire group ready to spill blood over 1 weapon not being pinpoint accurate and up to their personal preference on how THEY think it should work.

I left Halo because matchmaking is -blam!- stupid when combined with a quit ban. Why did you? Oh you didn't, you're still playing this insult of a game. Which technically means your opinion is invalid.


Time to play some more Diablo.

[Edited on 05.16.2012 12:04 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 12:01 PM PDT
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  • Intrepid Heroic Member

Posted by: aBlueBookshelf
global warming isn't proven and won't be - it's more of a political play for funding for "research"


Posted by: MR E0S
Anyway, whats not to get...

Story so far

Competitives: I hate halo, because the DMR does not function like I think it should.


Remember... This is just one weapon out of many available. And you have this entire group ready to spill blood over 1 weapon not being pinpoint accurate and up to their personal preference on how THEY think it should work.

I left Halo because matchmaking is -blam!- stupid when combined with a quit ban. Why did you? Oh you didn't, you're still playing this insult of a game. Which technically means your opinion is invalid.

1. The DMR is not the only problem with Reach. There are many problems. All of which have been discussed so much that if you don't understand yet, which you don't, makes it pointless to re-list them again

2. I'm not playing this game. It sucks so what would be the point in that?

  • 05.16.2012 12:05 PM PDT

Posted by: MR E0S
I left Halo because matchmaking is -blam!- stupid when combined with a quit ban. Why did you? Oh you didn't, you're still playing this insult of a game.
Except you -blam!- louder than anyone else. Empty your care cup.

Which technically means your opinion is invalid.ow my sides.

  • 05.16.2012 12:06 PM PDT