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Subject: Who else thought up of S-IVs as volunteers?

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Unless one of them is Buck, which I have a feeling Buck could end up becoming a Spartan-IV.

  • 05.04.2012 10:24 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Unless one of them is Buck, which I have a feeling Buck could end up becoming a Spartan-IV.

"Truly, if he was any better, he'd be a Spartan...."

[Edited on 05.05.2012 3:21 AM PDT]

  • 05.05.2012 3:21 AM PDT

Noble Six survives reach and volunteers for the S-IV program...

  • 05.05.2012 11:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
I honestly don't see the difference in performance between a Spartan-III and IV. They're both comprised of "normal" people. Except when S-IIIs go out on their first missions they are about 14 and not that experienced. A Spartan-IV is a Marine who possibly already has experience and is physically mature.
I guarantee you that a ODST who's been augmented and given this new lightweight MJOLNIR armor would out perform a member of Noble Team anyday.


Spartan IIIs were suicide troops. They took orphans that volunteered to join up and trained them. It's also why they were given that set of drugs that normally wouldn't have been given to Spartan IIs, because they weren't intended to survive as long. It's likely all the mental problems that came with those drugs wouldn't pop up because most of them would be dead.

Spartan IVs are more along the lines of the Orion project. Volunteers, no kidnapping, you had to be in the military, best of the best, stuff like that.

Honestly though, I don't like spartan IVs one bit. There was a big gap in time between our introduction into Spartan IIs and IIIs. It just doesn't feel like its the right time to pop the IVs in, especially in the setting of the story.

Maybe it's just because my image of Spartan IIIs was forever tarnished by Noble Team.

  • 05.05.2012 11:23 AM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

I think the reason why S-IVs came out so quickly is due to the significant loses the UNSC suffered in 2552. They lost nearly all of their Spartan-IIs and IIIs along with Reach and most of their forces on Earth. I'd say that it was appropriate for the S-IV project to come out as soon as possible in case any Covenant forces return.
Also it's possible that S-IV project might have been delayed if Onyx wasn't destroyed. Delta Company had been recruited but most likely died on Onyx. Also Spartan-IIIs take longer to train.
7 years for a group of super soldier adolescents. Possibly 2 years of training for a S-IV and augmentation procedure.
Also I feel that a augmented S-IV could beat a S-III any day (shortly after augmentation.) S-IVs are adults and are more developed than some 14 year olds.


Also there was the Class-II Spartan-II Project which produced an unknown number of S-IIs.

[Edited on 05.05.2012 1:46 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2012 1:45 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The Spartan IV-s came out fast because that was the point- to get the program back to adults ASAP. We know the spartan IIIs project was started right after Halsey's request for a class II was denied which is why the early spartan IIIs are pretty much II's gene wise.

Onyx has nothing to do with the program. You have no basis for that assumption and there was no class Two, stop using halopedian.

  • 05.05.2012 1:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
I think the reason why S-IVs came out so quickly is due to the significant loses the UNSC suffered in 2552. They lost nearly all of their Spartan-IIs and IIIs along with Reach and most of their forces on Earth. I'd say that it was appropriate for the S-IV project to come out as soon as possible in case any Covenant forces return.
Also it's possible that S-IV project might have been delayed if Onyx wasn't destroyed. Delta Company had been recruited but most likely died on Onyx. Also Spartan-IIIs take longer to train.
7 years for a group of super soldier adolescents. Possibly 2 years of training for a S-IV and augmentation procedure.
Also I feel that a augmented S-IV could beat a S-III any day (shortly after augmentation.) S-IVs are adults and are more developed than some 14 year olds.


Also there was the Class-II Spartan-II Project which produced an unknown number of S-IIs.


It just doesn't seem right though. The UNSC hasn't even started rebuilding, BANG Infinity, Spartan IVs, new weapons and tech out of nowhere.


  • 05.05.2012 1:59 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz


Posted by: Sandtrap

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
I think the reason why S-IVs came out so quickly is due to the significant loses the UNSC suffered in 2552. They lost nearly all of their Spartan-IIs and IIIs along with Reach and most of their forces on Earth. I'd say that it was appropriate for the S-IV project to come out as soon as possible in case any Covenant forces return.
Also it's possible that S-IV project might have been delayed if Onyx wasn't destroyed. Delta Company had been recruited but most likely died on Onyx. Also Spartan-IIIs take longer to train.
7 years for a group of super soldier adolescents. Possibly 2 years of training for a S-IV and augmentation procedure.
Also I feel that a augmented S-IV could beat a S-III any day (shortly after augmentation.) S-IVs are adults and are more developed than some 14 year olds.


Also there was the Class-II Spartan-II Project which produced an unknown number of S-IIs.


It just doesn't seem right though. The UNSC hasn't even started rebuilding, BANG Infinity, Spartan IVs, new weapons and tech out of nowhere.



Infinity and the SPARTAN-IV program both started before the war ended, IIRC. The SPARTAN-IVs, in my opinion, will be better than the SPARTAN-IIIs.

P.S The Class-II Spartan-IIs never got to be initiated.

  • 05.05.2012 2:28 PM PDT
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(To discuss Halo 4.)

Aside from keeping a steady flow of Spartans for future Halo games, the main reason the Spartans were created IMO because humanity is heading for species wide augmentation.

Since the Chief is classified as an Inheritor, Hom o Sapiens Augeous, instead of Hom o Sapiens Sapiens, there must be something to it. Besatarium.

Perhaps the Precursors wish humans to get away from their devolved bodies thanks to the FR's, and augmentation is the only way?

Edit: Excuse my evasion of the filter, but our species name is our species name.

[Edited on 05.05.2012 2:35 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2012 2:30 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

The assembly wants the entire population to be augmented which leads to the assumption that ancient man was naturally spartan like to a degree.

  • 05.05.2012 2:32 PM PDT
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"Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise. Its five-year mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new civilizations, to boldly go where no man has gone before." - James T Kirk


Posted by: CoolCJ24

Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Unless one of them is Buck, which I have a feeling Buck could end up becoming a Spartan-IV.

"Truly, if he was any better, he'd be a Spartan...."


Buck would be busy banging Dare. He wouldn't want to fight again,

  • 05.05.2012 2:34 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz


Posted by: grey101
The assembly wants the entire population to be augmented which leads to the assumption that ancient man was naturally spartan like to a degree.

Can I haz source for that? I'm assuming it's one of the Reach data pads, do you know which one?

  • 05.05.2012 2:36 PM PDT

Spartans are supposed be chosen...
However this may be close to what the actual Greek Spartans did. They only killed physically disabled babies. If you were weak, but were otherwise ok, they would MAKE you into a Spartan.

So the Spartan IV's are closer to the original Spartans (in the sense that anyone could become a Spartan), but they seem to pale in comparison to the likes of Master Chief and even Spartan III's like the head hunters. They need lightweight versions of the armour that other Spartans wear.

I personally liked it when Spartans were chosen. This ensure they were the best, right down to the genetic level. Now a Marine, who may have just been lucky enough to survive a couple of huge battle, can become a Spartan. Unfitting for the title IMO.

[Edited on 05.05.2012 3:23 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2012 3:21 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

It's a bit obvious but I'll do a simple summary.

S-II: Chosen for superior genetics, intellect and physical prowness as children so they could develop alongside a military background. Given dramatic enhancements that were not fully safe to carry out and a MJOLNIR.[Best armour for military personnel]

Oversighted by Halsey for overall progression, Mendez for training.

Genetically, the best of the best.AKA The Usain Bolt.
It is the most expensive project and houses the most successful operations. Although the main purpose was to tackle the insurrectionist. The covenant threat had proven that the S-IIs were truly legendary.

S-III: Any child of any background who volunteered,[Generally those orphaned] Given training similar to the S-II and similar BUT safer enhancements as the S-IIs except for the last stand treatment given so they can have "a fighting chance". Given SPI armour. A significant notch down the MJOLNIR.

Proposed by Ackerson, headed by ONI, Kurt given charge and Mendez is back for training.

Some happened to contain the suprior genetics found in the S-IIs which would match them more similarly. Besides that they are basically kids who had a shortcut to the S-II program. They were employed on large scale suicidal missions by the bulk. The main purpose was to produce "as many of them and as cheap as possible".

They are S-II's in everyway but the genetic supriorty that the S-II's were chosen for. This was a major theme that Kurt tried to put across in the GoO about the idea of a unit working as a family.[E.g Kurt choosing SPI over the MJOLNIR] Most of you numbnuts on this board probably don't recognise this thematic aspect of the book and it's significance symbolically as you just read face value, but moving on.

S-IVS: Only consist of adult volunteers and train on a training simulation aboard the UNSC Infinity. Looks like they have a form of MJOLNIR which would suggest that they were given enhancements as well.

Lead by ONI admiral Parangosky. Unknown training methods.

Blah blah blah. There are many issues with this but I'll point it out for another discussion.

By default S-IIs are the best. There are dramatic differences between the S-III's and the S-IVs.

But then again I'm sure 343 would bring out some meh worthy stuff and add in some shiz that skewers down the overall quality of the SPARTAN project.

The real strength of the SPARTAN project in II and III project was that these kids made family out of each other as they grew up. They functioned as a unit effectively due to one of these aspects. They were bred to fight and had no other purpose beyond fighting.

The idea of the S-IVs is appropriate for the period the universe is set in but by no means should they be called called Spartans.

But then again, if you believe Spartan = anyone with augmentation+MJOLNIR then your interpretation might suggest they do. My opinions differ. Which is also why I believe Noble Team was such a flop.

[Edited on 05.05.2012 5:39 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2012 5:35 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ninjakenzen
S-III: Any child of any background who volunteered,[Generally those orphaned] Given training similar to the S-II and similar BUT safer enhancements as the S-IIs except for the last stand treatment given so they can have "a fighting chance". Given SPI armour. A significant notch down the MJOLNIR.


The S-IIIs had genetic markers too.

  • 05.05.2012 5:37 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: ninjakenzen
S-III: Any child of any background who volunteered,[Generally those orphaned] Given training similar to the S-II and similar BUT safer enhancements as the S-IIs except for the last stand treatment given so they can have "a fighting chance". Given SPI armour. A significant notch down the MJOLNIR.


The S-IIIs had genetic markers too.


I know that, but not all of them. Hence the bit where I wrote

"Some happened to contain the suprior genetics found in the S-IIs which would match them more similarly."

  • 05.05.2012 5:41 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: ninjakenzen
S-III: Any child of any background who volunteered,[Generally those orphaned] Given training similar to the S-II and similar BUT safer enhancements as the S-IIs except for the last stand treatment given so they can have "a fighting chance". Given SPI armour. A significant notch down the MJOLNIR.


The S-IIIs had genetic markers too.


Oh God you. No they didn't. S-IIIs were purely comprised of orphaned children. There were probably a few with some S-II like genetic markers but if there were any I'd say that they would be in Class-II project (post Alpha co.)

  • 05.05.2012 5:42 PM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen
The idea of the S-IVs is appropriate for the period the universe is set in but by no means should they be called called Spartans.
THANK YOU!

For the guy above me, SOME Spartan IIIs, by CONCIDENCE, happened to have similar genetic markers to that of the Spartan II's. These were generally the ones that went out to become Headhunters, Noble Team, etc.

ONI wasn't selecting children for genetic markers. Some of the kids just happened to have them.

  • 05.05.2012 6:18 PM PDT


Posted by: ninjakenzen
It's a bit obvious but I'll do a simple summary.

S-II: Chosen for superior genetics, intellect and physical prowness as children so they could develop alongside a military background. Given dramatic enhancements that were not fully safe to carry out and a MJOLNIR.[Best armour for military personnel]

Oversighted by Halsey for overall progression, Mendez for training.

Genetically, the best of the best.AKA The Usain Bolt.
It is the most expensive project and houses the most successful operations. Although the main purpose was to tackle the insurrectionist. The covenant threat had proven that the S-IIs were truly legendary.

S-III: Any child of any background who volunteered,[Generally those orphaned] Given training similar to the S-II and similar BUT safer enhancements as the S-IIs except for the last stand treatment given so they can have "a fighting chance". Given SPI armour. A significant notch down the MJOLNIR.

Proposed by Ackerson, headed by ONI, Kurt given charge and Mendez is back for training.

Some happened to contain the suprior genetics found in the S-IIs which would match them more similarly. Besides that they are basically kids who had a shortcut to the S-II program. They were employed on large scale suicidal missions by the bulk. The main purpose was to produce "as many of them and as cheap as possible".

They are S-II's in everyway but the genetic supriorty that the S-II's were chosen for. This was a major theme that Kurt tried to put across in the GoO about the idea of a unit working as a family.[E.g Kurt choosing SPI over the MJOLNIR] Most of you numbnuts on this board probably don't recognise this thematic aspect of the book and it's significance symbolically as you just read face value, but moving on.

S-IVS: Only consist of adult volunteers and train on a training simulation aboard the UNSC Infinity. Looks like they have a form of MJOLNIR which would suggest that they were given enhancements as well.

Lead by ONI admiral Parangosky. Unknown training methods.

Blah blah blah. There are many issues with this but I'll point it out for another discussion.

By default S-IIs are the best. There are dramatic differences between the S-III's and the S-IVs.

But then again I'm sure 343 would bring out some meh worthy stuff and add in some shiz that skewers down the overall quality of the SPARTAN project.

The real strength of the SPARTAN project in II and III project was that these kids made family out of each other as they grew up. They functioned as a unit effectively due to one of these aspects. They were bred to fight and had no other purpose beyond fighting.

The idea of the S-IVs is appropriate for the period the universe is set in but by no means should they be called called Spartans.

But then again, if you believe Spartan = anyone with augmentation+MJOLNIR then your interpretation might suggest they do. My opinions differ. Which is also why I believe Noble Team was such a flop.


Noble Team had the best teamwork I've seen in the series. They just went up against the largest battalion of Covenant ever seen. Reach was the biggest battle of the war, hell - they erected a friggen statue of them in the middle of Reach's largest city...

  • 05.05.2012 6:54 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: ThePredkiller2

Noble Team had the best teamwork I've seen in the series. They just went up against the largest battalion of Covenant ever seen. Reach was the biggest battle of the war, hell - they erected a friggen statue of them in the middle of Reach's largest city...

Did you have to quote my wall to say that?

Well that your opinion about the teamwork part but I assume you haven't read the books if thats the best you seen in the series. But whatever.

They erected a statue of Noble Team in the middle of Reach's largest city?
Hell that's news to me. But I really don't think you know what you're on about. So I'm inclined to not believe you.

[Edited on 05.05.2012 7:10 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2012 7:08 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

How about you guys go re-read Ghosts of Onyx. The Spartan-IIIs were comprised of orphans, yes, but they didn't just take every single one, they had genetic markers. Why do you think in the meeting with the top brass at ONI and Kurt, Ackerson and Mendez they discussed expanding the genetic critera with a vaccination drive to mask the search for said genetic traits?

  • 05.05.2012 7:16 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
How about you guys go re-read Ghosts of Onyx. The Spartan-IIIs were comprised of orphans, yes, but they didn't just take every single one, they had genetic markers. Why do you think in the meeting with the top brass at ONI and Kurt, Ackerson and Mendez they discussed expanding the genetic critera with a vaccination drive to mask the search for said genetic traits?

Well, I haven't read the book in years. So I take what you said as correct unless someone says otherwise. But a big question lingers.

Why make the orphan volunteer for it? [I.E Jump out the Pelican test]

Besides the fact that the class size was smaller then the sample group. These orphans would all be inexpendable to the S-IIIs regardless of funding if what you said had been the case.

Also masking the search for Genetic traits doesn't mean that all the S-III's had the genetic trait. It could just mean that they were prefered over those who didn't have them. It still allows for the S-III's to not have these genetic qualties. I mean what if they're wasn't enough ophans with these traits?

We're looking at hundreds per company here. It took Halsey some time to manage just finding 150 [IIRC] sure the search process may be faster but I really really doubt that ALL S-IIIs had the genetic markers. It is improbable. Even if ALL of them had it. Why make them expendable solidiers?

Hence the reason why groups like Noble Team and Headhunters were formed because they outshined the rest of the S-IIIs.

It just doesn't add up, scratch the 2nd line, I don't think you're right. Unless it specifically says in the book that all S-IIIs had GM I'm inclined to think otherwise.

[Edited on 05.05.2012 7:30 PM PDT]

  • 05.05.2012 7:26 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

The genetic perameters weren't as strict as Halsey's, but they still had standards. I believe Ackerson or Parandoksy wasnted to expand them even more to allow people without them into the program, but it was deemed too risky.

These are still Spartans.

  • 05.05.2012 7:29 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The genetic perameters weren't as strict as Halsey's, but they still had standards. I believe Ackerson or Parandoksy wasnted to expand them even more to allow people without them into the program, but it was deemed too risky.

These are still Spartans.


I don't even know why we continue, Cobra. Obviously these imbeciles never seem to get it.

  • 05.05.2012 7:32 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
The genetic perameters weren't as strict as Halsey's, but they still had standards. I believe Ackerson or Parandoksy wasnted to expand them even more to allow people without them into the program, but it was deemed too risky.

These are still Spartans.

I get what you're saying than. I agree that they are still Spartans. You're right but what I mean by GM= Halsey's Genetic Markers.

I think thats where the confusion has been formed. In that sense, they don't carry the same GM as the S-II[As a whole] so the notion still stands.

  • 05.05.2012 7:34 PM PDT

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