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Subject: Would Heretic Covenant still attack humanity?

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.

Since the heretics don't believe in the great journey and know that the prophets are liars, would they still attack humanity? The leader of the heretics on the gas mine in Halo 2 no doubt asked Spark a lot of questions about the Covenant religion, and most likely Spark mentioned something about Humans being the Forerunners "successors" or something along those lines to the heretic.

Now keep in mind that these heretics were most likely in the war against humanity but probably decided to break off later in the conflict.

After all, the only reason the prophets declared war on the UNSC was so that the Covenant wouldn't shatter if word got out that their religion was false.... So since heretics don't follow the ways of the prophets, would they still attack humanity?

Thoughts?

Discuss.

  • 05.06.2012 2:53 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Probably not. That's still a big probably though.

  • 05.06.2012 2:55 PM PDT

Well the Covenant Separtists were basically Heretics as well. I assume that any surviving Heretics would have joined forces with the Separatists.

They need up helping humanity.

But if you read Glasslands, you will see that things are still tense. There are some Elites that still want to finish off Humanity.

[Edited on 05.06.2012 2:58 PM PDT]

  • 05.06.2012 2:58 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Spartan1995324

But if you read Glasslands, you will see that things are still tense. There are some Elites that still want to finish off Humanity.


For the flimsiest and vaguest reasons.

  • 05.06.2012 3:00 PM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan1995324

But if you read Glasslands, you will see that things are still tense. There are some Elites that still want to finish off Humanity.


For the flimsiest and vaguest reasons.


Which are probably the elites that disagree with Thel's leadership. Since five years have passed I'm betting that there was a large civil war on Sanghelios that ended with Thel's opponents winning.

If that is true then the lack of armor on the Halo 4 elites could be because there is simply not enough resources on Sanghelios to create full body armor.

It is shown in glasslands that the elites are not very good at being self-efficient since they relied on the prophets for resources and supplies. Plus parts of Sanghelios were glassed during the Great Schism anyways.

  • 05.06.2012 3:14 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: TallestSpark
Which are probably the elites that disagree with Thel's leadership. Since five years have passed I'm betting that there was a large civil war on Sanghelios that ended with Thel's opponents winning.


The actual thing that happened was that the Elites waged war against the Brutes. No word on the leader of the Elites, but there wasn't a human war.

  • 05.06.2012 3:17 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Probably not. (In Bungie's canon.)

  • 05.06.2012 3:24 PM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: TallestSpark
Which are probably the elites that disagree with Thel's leadership. Since five years have passed I'm betting that there was a large civil war on Sanghelios that ended with Thel's opponents winning.


The actual thing that happened was that the Elites waged war against the Brutes. No word on the leader of the Elites, but there wasn't a human war.


Other way around. Thel was the leader of the elites, although not very liked. What human war?

  • 05.06.2012 3:29 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.

No. The Covenant were attacking humanity because they stood in the way of The Great Journey, but since the Heretics do not believe in TGJ, they would have no reason to attack.

  • 05.06.2012 3:32 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: TallestSpark
Other way around. Thel was the leader of the elites, although not very liked. What human war?


The Return did not mention who was leading the Elites, only that after the Arbiter killed Truth the fight against the Brutes continued. And I was saying their was no human war, period. SO the notion of the Elites fighting the UNSC again may not happen.

  • 05.06.2012 3:34 PM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: TallestSpark
Other way around. Thel was the leader of the elites, although not very liked. What human war?


The Return did not mention who was leading the Elites, only that after the Arbiter killed Truth the fight against the Brutes continued. And I was saying their was no human war, period. SO the notion of the Elites fighting the UNSC again may not happen.


I was referring to Glasslands. There were multiple parts in the book where Jarl(i think that's his name, the main elite wanting to kill Thel) says that he disagrees with Thel LEADING the elites. And yes the elites are still fighting with Brutes, but there are still some Brutes on Sanghelios that have sided with the Elites. Also Jarl or whatever his name is still wants to fight the UNSC, and even suggests to the Sangheli council that they should continue to wage war so that humanity does not build back up.

  • 05.06.2012 3:43 PM PDT

No, most likely not unless the humans attacked first

  • 05.06.2012 3:49 PM PDT

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I am not sure.

  • 05.06.2012 3:52 PM PDT

Posted by: AngryBrute1
Oh yeah, since somebody does not believe what YOU believe; that makes us vapid...
I cannot grasp that what you call "Something happened to nothing, and that nothing became something, and it was smaller than than a period."


Posted by: Spartan1995324
Well the Covenant Separtists were basically Heretics as well. I assume that any surviving Heretics would have joined forces with the Separatists.

They need up helping humanity.

But if you read Glasslands, you will see that things are still tense. There are some Elites that still want to finish off Humanity.
I agree with this statement.

  • 05.06.2012 4:52 PM PDT

"Shall we let the Flood consume our holy city? Turn High Charity into another of their wretched hives? No enemy has ever withstood our might. The Flood, too, shall fail."

-Prophet of Truth.


Posted by: Wikked Navajoe

Posted by: Spartan1995324
Well the Covenant Separtists were basically Heretics as well. I assume that any surviving Heretics would have joined forces with the Separatists.

They need up helping humanity.

But if you read Glasslands, you will see that things are still tense. There are some Elites that still want to finish off Humanity.
I agree with this statement.


Yo wikked, I know this is offtopic but is that an elite or a brute holding that gravity hammer in your picture??

  • 05.06.2012 5:13 PM PDT

Depends, though the UNSC would probably fire on them, mistaking them for the actual covenent, and the heretics would be forced to fire back.

  • 05.06.2012 6:17 PM PDT


Posted by: TallestSpark

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan1995324

But if you read Glasslands, you will see that things are still tense. There are some Elites that still want to finish off Humanity.


For the flimsiest and vaguest reasons.


Which are probably the elites that disagree with Thel's leadership. Since five years have passed I'm betting that there was a large civil war on Sanghelios that ended with Thel's opponents winning.

If that is true then the lack of armor on the Halo 4 elites could be because there is simply not enough resources on Sanghelios to create full body armor.

It is shown in glasslands that the elites are not very good at being self-efficient since they relied on the prophets for resources and supplies. Plus parts of Sanghelios were glassed during the Great Schism anyways.
Don't bet or assume anything. If a theory is based on an assumption, it can be destroyed easily and is harder to believe as a possibility.

However in Halo Evolutions there is a story about a shipmaster who returns to a planet he destroyed. He returns SIX years after the Great Schism. He mentions that the Elites are simply lost as to what to do. Their religion was their purpose in life and now that it was proven false, they're lost.

However the Elites did war against the Brutes for quite some time. He mentioned that as well. However in Glasslands the group that wants to elminate humanity has not disposed of Thel I believe. There was no mention of a civil war, simply that the Elites weren't sure what their next steps would, even six years after the Great Schism. Which means we could be seeing both friendly and hostile Elites.

[Edited on 05.06.2012 7:17 PM PDT]

  • 05.06.2012 7:14 PM PDT

I'm an Anarchist. I don't need a government to be a good person, but I'm glad it's here because some of you clearly do.


Posted by: Sigma617
I assume you mean the Heretic faction from Halo 2?

If so, it's hard to say. Those Sangheili (and most other Sangheili ever encountered by Humanity) have been fighting with humans for the better part of 2 and a half decades.

If they no longer have their religion to justify combat, they'll fuel the violence with racial superiority.

Unless Sangheili have an untapped pool of compassion somewhere in their hearts, I doubt they'd stop the fight against humans.


I agree with this. Their whole culture is based upon martial superiority. Remember how stupid they would behave for honor and glory in Halo CE and Halo 2? I don't think they'd know what to do with their selves if they weren't fighting.

  • 05.07.2012 2:47 AM PDT

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The Heretics who don't believe in the Great Journey could still see humanity as a threat because of colonization. The Heretics who don't believe in the Great Journey but believe the Forunners as there gods view humanity as a threat because of colonization.

The whole situation is tense and the Arbiter really has his worked cut out for him.

  • 05.07.2012 3:04 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ElementL09
The Heretics who don't believe in the Great Journey could still see humanity as a threat because of colonization.

What threat is colonization? Space is pretty big, and if we take Kepler's estimates with pessimism then we get a decent extrapolation of over 500 million earth like worlds in our galaxy. I don't think colonization is a very likely source of conflict.

  • 05.07.2012 6:40 AM PDT

"You build on failure. You use it as a stepping stone. Close the door on the past. You don't try to forget the mistakes, but you don't dwell on it. You don't let it have any of your energy, or any of your time, or any of your space." -Johnny Cash

I don't see why the Heritics would want to attack humanity since they don't have a reason to. If anything, I would think that they would help humanity against the Covenant for their own survival.

  • 05.07.2012 7:40 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Anytime soon, I doubt it. The UNSC, even in it's weakened state is still too powerful for what the Heretic Covenant have (or what we know of).

Or perhaps they don't have that idea in their mind since the Heretics supossibly knew of the real purpose of Halo, and I'd imagine Humanities role and significance.

  • 05.07.2012 9:18 AM PDT

Perhaps not the entire UNSC head on, as the UNSC seems to recover at unrealistic speed and probably outnumbers any Elite Heretic and Covenant Remnant groups.

But I can very much see them attack Forward unto Dawn after learning Chief, who was responsible for the situation they're in now in a way, is on that ship. Getting some easy revenge doesn't seem too unlikely.
Besides that: them attacking and possibly capturing Chief would give them leverage agains the UNSC to perhaps tip the scales in their favor so that they can in fact attack the UNSC in an increasingly bigger way.
Because, let's make no mistakes, if they were to succeed in a way they'll probably gain more sympathy within the Elite camp...which might lead to another conflict between both parties.

But will that happen? I doubt it.
Things might seem to set up to that, but I feel the new threat (and I also expect the Flood to come back bigger and more bad ass than before) might intervene in that conflict before it escalates, basically unifying UNSC and remaining Elite/Covie Remnant forces again.

  • 05.07.2012 11:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Spartan1995324

But if you read Glasslands, you will see that things are still tense. There are some Elites that still want to finish off Humanity.


For the flimsiest and vaguest reasons.


It's kinda funny actually. A forerunner machine admitting to what the Halo's really do and there is still Covenant forces that want to destroy humanity.

  • 05.07.2012 11:45 AM PDT

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