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Subject: A question about continuity
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I enjoy magma.

So I'm re-reading The Fall of Reach, and I've noticed a confusing discrepancy that I'm wondering if anyone else has noticed/has any explanation or answers for. Although this brings the whole timeline into question, I'll just use this one point to show what's wrong.

So in the book, on August 25, 2552 Halsey is on Reach, and this is when she has the conversation with Cortana about which Spartan she'll pick, and which ship for Operation: FIRST STRIKE. Meaning the Spartans don't have their Mk. V armor yet, and no energy shields, which means Noble shouldn't have those either. And more importantly, by the 25 of August in the game, the Covenant assault of Reach has already entered it's full swing. The Fleet of Particular Justice has shown up, New Alexandria and more of the planet is being glassed.

So I'm confused, for this to work, the events in the book would all need to take place several months before they say they are taking place. Which would work I guess, but I'm just wondering how this has been handled in terms of canon. Because. I'm so confused now.

  • 05.13.2012 12:27 PM PDT

Reach kinda messed things up. Noble team, i believe, have prototype Mark V armor or an earlier version of it.

For the second thing, they were trying to keep it quiet so people don't start panicking and saying its the end of the world.

  • 05.13.2012 12:38 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Noble Team and the majority of the Spartan II's got Mark V as early as November 2551, Phase II Mark V is the one able to do the Piggyback AI function.

The ships that attack New Alexandria are a small reinforcement wave for the Long Night of Solace, the fleet of Particular Justice arrived in the 30th.

  • 05.13.2012 12:48 PM PDT
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Alright, I get the early Mk. V stuff, I guess that also explains Six's method of carrying Cortana. And I see where I was wrong about the Fleet of Particular Justice.

But there's still the issue of the Covenant invasion being in pretty much full swing. And the fact that 20 ODPs and over 100 ships couldn't take out what would essentially be an expeditionary force? But I can let that slide, what I'm confused by is the fact that Halsey is just hanging out at CASTLE like nothing is going on. I mean, how can it not be mentioned in the book that the Covenant are already at Reach and assaulting it? Even if it hasn't reached its full fever pitch.

Also one more thing, according to the book, John and his group of Spartans, had never encountered a hunter before July 2552, and based on the language Elites were also unfamiliar to ONI and FLEETCOM. So. That's weird. Because I find it hard to believe that the Covenant, for twenty-seven years engaged the humans in ground battle with exclusively grunts and jackals. And even if they only deployed the hunters and elites and brutes and yanme'e in very selective ways, ONI should know about them. And the Spartans assuredly would. They didn't go public until the late 2540's, they would surely have been engaged against those Covenant forces at some point.

And plus all soldiers express relative familiarity with all of the Covenant species, so they must have all been deployed. So I can only assume that is all a big mess up on Nylund's/the editorial staff's part.

  • 05.13.2012 1:08 PM PDT

Yea. The updated version of Fall of Reach kinda helps things better

  • 05.13.2012 1:59 PM PDT


Posted by: TevisI believe that the Hunter/Elite thing has since been retconned. As for the other point, Halsey and the Pillar of Autumn's crew were kept in the dark about the Covenant's presence at Reach (see the Data Drops.)

  • 05.13.2012 2:20 PM PDT
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The goal of a warrior is to one day lay down the sword and carry fortune upon the sheild.to defend those who can not defend themselves.Honor,respect and love.

ok here is the mess that halo reach did to cannon as best explained. Dr Halsey is on reach rebulding mark 4 armor into mark 5 with sheild tech taken during operations before h the fall of reach. the sparten 2 get mark 4 armor a year before the fall of reach. Sparten 117 and the others get the mark 5 just before they step on board the pillar of autumn. Reach screws this idea by giving sparten 3 mark 5 variant 2. the sparten 3 are not even in training when the fall of reach happens, so Halsey should have not even known about Nobel team. kurt is barely starting the sparten 3 project when reach happens. for continuity the game suggest that most of nobel team are from the train sparten from kurts first team of sparten 3 and that they were responceable for cortana delivery to the autumn. not the master cheif as is suggested in the cannon.

  • 05.13.2012 2:42 PM PDT
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Ohhhhhhhhh, alright. I figured they'd retcon that just because it doesn't make sense, just wanted to make sure.

And thanks for the Data Drops, I feel like I've read these before but must've forgot. Really clears things up, thanks everyone :)

  • 05.13.2012 2:44 PM PDT
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Spartan III program starts in 2531, twenty years before the Fall of Reach. The armor thing is still mildly valid, though answered by someone previously, because Spartan II's were provided with Mk. V (no shields) in late 2551. So Noble, being all super special specops, would reasonably be first in line to get updated armor and shield tech. I guess the only real big issue left is Halsey meeting Noble and knowing they're S-III's, 'cause I'm not sure that she had figured out the project by then? But I may be wrong with the time on that, I can't remember when she figures it out.

  • 05.13.2012 2:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tevis
Spartan III program starts in 2531, twenty years before the Fall of Reach. The armor thing is still mildly valid, though answered by someone previously, because Spartan II's were provided with Mk. V (no shields) in late 2551. So Noble, being all super special specops, would reasonably be first in line to get updated armor and shield tech. I guess the only real big issue left is Halsey meeting Noble and knowing they're S-III's, 'cause I'm not sure that she had figured out the project by then? But I may be wrong with the time on that, I can't remember when she figures it out.

According to Halsey's Journal which came with one of the special editions of Reach, Halsey suspected that there was another Spartan project but, she assumed it was a class II of her Spartans.

  • 05.13.2012 3:05 PM PDT
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I enjoy magma.

I do remember that, and she didn't discover any real evidence of the S-III's until she was back in CASTLE after the planet fell. I guess that does explain it though, still a little strange, but it explains her bitterness towards all of Noble except Jorge. Angry that another group of Spartans were trained without her. I can live with that answer. Thanks all :)

  • 05.13.2012 3:08 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: PHYNIX CALL
ok here is the mess that halo reach did to cannon as best explained. Dr Halsey is on reach rebulding mark 4 armor into mark 5 with sheild tech taken during operations before h the fall of reach. the sparten 2 get mark 4 armor a year before the fall of reach. Sparten 117 and the others get the mark 5 just before they step on board the pillar of autumn. Reach screws this idea by giving sparten 3 mark 5 variant 2. the sparten 3 are not even in training when the fall of reach happens, so Halsey should have not even known about Nobel team. kurt is barely starting the sparten 3 project when reach happens. for continuity the game suggest that most of nobel team are from the train sparten from kurts first team of sparten 3 and that they were responceable for cortana delivery to the autumn. not the master cheif as is suggested in the cannon.


No, just no.

1.- Spartan II's had the MJOLNIR Mark IV armor for 27 years now, it was issued to them in 2525.

2.- Noble Team and the majority of the Spartan II's were given the first version of Mark V in November 2551, almost a year before the fall of Reach, the ones in active combat got it a little later (like John).

3.- Noble Team was made up by Spartans from Alpha (Carter, Emile and Jun) and Beta (Kat and Six) company, each of them is above the age of 20 (seeing how the companies were trained in 2531 and 2537 respectively) and Gamma was getting trained or had finished training by then.

4.- Halsey didn't know the members of Noble Team, she just thought they were ONI Spartans, something pointed out in her diary (she mentions Project: JAVELIN, a possible competitor program to the Spartan II's), at no point does she say "Hey, they are Spartan III's!".

5.- Cortana was split just before the battle of Reach, a part of her was kept in the Autumn and other was kept with Halsey.

6.- It's canon, not cannon. A cannon is any piece of artillery that uses gunpowder or other usually explosive-based propellents to launch a projectile.

  • 05.13.2012 3:09 PM PDT
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The goal of a warrior is to one day lay down the sword and carry fortune upon the sheild.to defend those who can not defend themselves.Honor,respect and love.

Okay,


are you reaady for time line.

November 27 2525

project Mjolnir Introduced to sparten 2 (mark 4)

august 29 2552

Sparten 117 beta test new Mjolnir mark 5 planet Reach

  • 05.13.2012 3:57 PM PDT
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The goal of a warrior is to one day lay down the sword and carry fortune upon the sheild.to defend those who can not defend themselves.Honor,respect and love.

August 29 2552

Cortana introduce to carrier Sparten 117. AI Cortana insurgency and evasion suite.

August 30 2552

Cortana introduce to pillar of autumn

august 30 2552

Sparten 117 lead op to destroy nav database, sparten Red team dropped to defend reach

  • 05.13.2012 4:09 PM PDT


Posted by: PHYNIX CALL
Okay,


are you reaady for time line.

November 27 2525

project Mjolnir Introduced to sparten 2 (mark 4)

august 29 2552

Sparten 117 beta test new Mjolnir mark 5 planet Reach
Actually Master Chief was the first to test Mark V with an AI, not the armour itself. I believe that is in Halsey's Journal that came with the Reach Limited/Legendary Edition.

  • 05.13.2012 4:10 PM PDT
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The goal of a warrior is to one day lay down the sword and carry fortune upon the sheild.to defend those who can not defend themselves.Honor,respect and love.

There is no mention of Sparten 3 anywhere on reach and Halsey is getting a first glimps of Anderson plans. it is not until red team finds and rescue Halsey that the rest of the sparten get mark 5 armor.


read page 124 of first strike to see when the rest of sparten get mark 5

  • 05.13.2012 4:21 PM PDT
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I enjoy magma.

They're getting new parts for their Mk. V armor. That they already have. They're wearing Mk. V. Right then. Right there. She offers them new components, not a whole set of armor.
Also we've already discussed how Halsey had suspected that there were other Spartan programs/another class of II's that were not under her supervision, so it's been deduced she didn't know Noble team were mostly S-III's, and rather just assumed they were class 2 S-II's.

Antony is right, it is in the journal.

  • 05.13.2012 4:29 PM PDT
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The goal of a warrior is to one day lay down the sword and carry fortune upon the sheild.to defend those who can not defend themselves.Honor,respect and love.

Mark v is special only to the sparten 2, the only difference between mark 4 and mark 5 are the new chest plate and sheild and armor component. that why there is little change between the sparten in halo wars and the master cheif in halo. Halsey first meet the sparten 3 when she takes kelly to onyx in the ghost of onyx. She finally confirms this when she find kurt and mendez. she spends an hour learning everything about them on onyx. So I pose this question to you. How dose she know any sparten then her first group. at this point in time she dose not even know kurt is alive.

  • 05.13.2012 4:41 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: PHYNIX CALL
Mark v is special only to the sparten 2, the only difference between mark 4 and mark 5 are the new chest plate and sheild and armor component. that why there is little change between the sparten in halo wars and the master cheif in halo. Halsey first meet the sparten 3 when she takes kelly to onyx in the ghost of onyx. She finally confirms this when she find kurt and mendez. she spends an hour learning everything about them on onyx. So I pose this question to you. How dose she know any sparten then her first group. at this point in time she dose not even know kurt is alive.


She doesn't know any Spartan!

When she first meets Noble Team she realizes they are not her Spartans and begins to ponder on the possibility of another Super-soldier project being out there, something that anybody would ponder about if they had a brain.

"So, the funding for my program was diverted to god knows where and suddenly this group of people show up in MJOLNIR Mark V armor, despite the fact that unaugmented users can't use it, and since I do not recognize them, then they cannot be my Spartans, oh, whatever it's probably just a coincidence!"

She starts to suspect about another Spartan program, then she finds the data in CASTLE Base that confirms her doubts. And again, Mark V was issued to Spartan II's and Noble Team in 2551, the armor wore by John is the second generation of that armor, that's why it is so different from the Reach version, get it already!

  • 05.13.2012 4:49 PM PDT

What a waste....


Posted by: PHYNIX CALL
ok here is the mess that halo reach did to cannon as best explained. Dr Halsey is on reach rebulding mark 4 armor into mark 5 with sheild tech taken during operations before h the fall of reach. the sparten 2 get mark 4 armor a year before the fall of reach. Sparten 117 and the others get the mark 5 just before they step on board the pillar of autumn. Reach screws this idea by giving sparten 3 mark 5 variant 2. the sparten 3 are not even in training when the fall of reach happens, so Halsey should have not even known about Nobel team. kurt is barely starting the sparten 3 project when reach happens. for continuity the game suggest that most of nobel team are from the train sparten from kurts first team of sparten 3 and that they were responceable for cortana delivery to the autumn. not the master cheif as is suggested in the cannon.
Um... the Spartans were 5 years old before FoR... Mark V was given to them when they all went back to Reach after Cote de Azure. The Spartan IIIs were already almost done training Gamma Company (who might have been at Reach, not sure on the modern information) by the Fall.

  • 05.13.2012 5:01 PM PDT

What a waste....


Posted by: antony X1000

Posted by: PHYNIX CALL
Okay,


are you reaady for time line.

November 27 2525

project Mjolnir Introduced to sparten 2 (mark 4)

august 29 2552

Sparten 117 beta test new Mjolnir mark 5 planet Reach
Actually Master Chief was the first to test Mark V with an AI, not the armour itself. I believe that is in Halsey's Journal that came with the Reach Limited/Legendary Edition.
Nope, I have the Journal right here:

MARK V

-Smart AI strata to house symbiotic intelligence

Implying that ALL Mark V armors had this ability, saying there was no "prototype". John's armor was the first Mark V. So, regard the Noble armor as 4.5--mostly Mark V, without the AI the actual Mark V has.

  • 05.13.2012 5:07 PM PDT
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I enjoy magma.

RKO, you're the best.

Also it does seem true based on the journal that all Mk. Vs would have the ability to house an A.I., but that doesn't necessarily mean it's true. Six wears the Mk. V(B) helmet, made by private corporations, therefore it's totally feasible that that variant (and any of the others) wouldn't have been able to house the A.I. Also it does seem the Chief is the first one to test Mk. V WITH an A.I. It's mentioned that because of the Spartans constantly deployment, and being in the thick of battle the can't be pulled out easily. So the Chief may not have gotten Mk. V until late, unlike most of the other Spartans and Noble team.

Or more likely it's another timeline mistake in the book that needs to be rectified and put the time of that even a year earlier.

  • 05.13.2012 5:23 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

The Mk. V armor was the first of the line to be equipped with energy shields (based, in part, on captured Covenant matériel). S-117 was not the first Spartan to receive the Mk. V armor, as he had been in the field when it entered service on 24 Nov 2551. The most obvious indication of this is how familiar the Marines on the UNSC Pillar of Autumn (C-709) were with the armor.

So, what was so special about 29 Aug 2552? This was the very first time a "smart" AI had "piggy-backed" in the Mjolnir Mk. V powered assault armor during "live-fire" simulated combat conditions.


Halo: The Fall of Reach and Halo Waypoint's MJOLNIR Project 2 video state that the Mark V was issued on August 29, 2552. However, a number of later sources, including the aforementioned Weekly Update, Dr. Halsey's personal journal, the 2011 edition of the Halo Encyclopedia, and Halo: The Essential Visual Guide retcon this, clearly stating that the Mark V was issued on November 24, 2551. The two latter sources reveal that the suit issued in November 2551 was a prototype of the one issued in August 2552, explaining its noticeably different appearance in Halo: Reach. While John-117 indeed tested the performance of the second-generation Mark V system, ONI was actually evaluating the Spartan-AI pairing made possible by the second-generation Mark V suit.

[Edited on 05.13.2012 5:58 PM PDT]

  • 05.13.2012 5:53 PM PDT
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The goal of a warrior is to one day lay down the sword and carry fortune upon the sheild.to defend those who can not defend themselves.Honor,respect and love.

I'm not going t say your wrong because bungie has diviated from cannon too many times to know which is correct. but inorder to have continuity Dr halsey finish mark v armor and inprovment to have produced the mark 6. sparten three were to have cut down version of the mark five due to the low survivablitity of operation.As far as we know only two sparten have AI inside their armor.

  • 05.13.2012 6:39 PM PDT

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