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Subject: How Reach didn't destroy the canon, but fixed it

The only thing I agree with is the fact that a planet is huge, and if you read The Fall of Reach, Reach was only defended by 16 MAC platforms. Only 16.

Of course, there's still the question of where the frigging hell the fleet was and why there was nothing but SABRE FIGHTERS TO DEFEND HUMANITY'S MOST IMPORTANT COLONY. But alas, I'm not saying Reach fixed canon, because it didn't. I only agree with their not being enough MAC platforms to cover an entire planet to explain why we don't see any. Other than that, Reach screwed canon and never called it back.

  • 05.21.2012 1:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cobravert
I just saw a green monkey nut shot a small tan lizard(?) in a gunny sack.


Posted by: DonVinzone1
No, like I've said many times before: the Halsey Journal package makes perfectly clear that the game (Reach) is an attempt by ONI to recreate what happened to Noble Team.

In other words: what we played is not the real deal. We played an interpretation of the actual events based upon found footage from security cams, some recovered data, maybe eye witness reports.

And that explains the many collisions between the game and the events as they were (Fall of Reach, which really didn't go in as much detail on the ground ops as most people make the book out to do).

In other words: Reach and the Fall of Reach don't as much contradict each other, but supplement each other (Reach being more about the ground battle, and some elements we didn't know before as shown in the ONI Files. Fall of Reach covering the space battle) and in a lot of instances can exist next to each other with the knowledge that the game we've played might not be 100% accurate.

I really keep on being suprised how even the most hardcore fans seem to continue to read over that all important sentence in the letters coming with Halseys Journal. Because with that 1 little sentence, Bungie and Nylund made sure they'd have more freedom within the game and still have it fit canonically within the existing universe.


I had no idea that was in there. Thank you, good sir, for opening my eyes. I will reread the journal when I find it again.

  • 05.21.2012 1:48 PM PDT


Posted by: SkaarjSlayer
The only thing I agree with is the fact that a planet is huge, and if you read The Fall of Reach, Reach was only defended by 16 MAC platforms. Only 16.

Of course, there's still the question of where the frigging hell the fleet was and why there was nothing but SABRE FIGHTERS TO DEFEND HUMANITY'S MOST IMPORTANT COLONY. But alas, I'm not saying Reach fixed canon, because it didn't. I only agree with their not being enough MAC platforms to cover an entire planet to explain why we don't see any. Other than that, Reach screwed canon and never called it back.


Check the messages where Parangosky made sure pretty much the ENTIRE fleet was on the other side of the planet clueless of the Long Night of Solace.

  • 05.21.2012 2:03 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

You guys still going on about this?

  • 05.21.2012 2:06 PM PDT


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
You guys still going on about this?


Lol, somebody just tossed a fuel can into the dying fire I think with this topic being made :P.

  • 05.21.2012 3:30 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
You guys still going on about this?


Lol, somebody just tossed a fuel can into the dying fire I think with this topic being made :P.

Haha, yeah, tell me about it. ;p

I think we need something else to debate about here in the Universe. Reach is getting old. Haters and lovers need to just make peace, lol.

  • 05.21.2012 4:30 PM PDT

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*WARNING* IT IS MY OPINION.

Seems that you guys don't understand how physics works. Although-out in novels, it was stated that UNSC Cruisers are NOT RATED for atmosphere, which it could mean two things: It cannot land in planet in normal means unless it is emergency situation (see to Pillar of Autumn's crashing at Halo.) and another thing: It cannot hover in the atmosphere because the planet's gravity would ultimately crush UNSC cruiser due to its mass and size.

You see those boosters on Pillar of Autumn in Reach? That is chemical boosters and we know that it is not enough to lift off the Pillar of Autumn because it does not produce enough energy. I calculated the booster's power to lift the ship (based on few seconds of cut-scene). It was about 36 million newtons of force which it is far too weak for the ship to lift off the atmosphere in Reach. Maybe it was designed to lift a cruiser high enough for main engines to start but it's all moot because of gravity would -blam!- the ship up.

By comparing Reach to Earth, try calculate the pressure of atmosphere in Earth. (Done some research, it was 5×10^18 kg). However, we know that Earth is 10-15% smaller than Reach.

1.) Earth is 12756.1 km in diameter.
2.) Reach is 15,273 km in diameter. (Also Reach's G is 1.08, about .8 more heavier than Earth's 1 G.)

You see that Reach is slightly larger than Earth and it has more gravity, which it accounts for higher pressure of atmospheric which it hints that it would require more thrust/power/force to lift the ship off on Reach than Earth.

Now, on other things:

Based on Dr. Halsey's journal (yes, I'm going to use this evidence as to assert that portrayal of Reach from Halo: Reach is actually ONI-made or was attached by ONI due to lack of information, had to make their own ideas.) implies that ONI were re-attaching what happened in Reach and also adding their own version of story instead of actual story (Fall of Reach.)

So, yes, I believe that Halo: Reach is actually ONI-propaganda or version.

  • 05.21.2012 7:02 PM PDT

Cave Johnson here, we're done!

PS: If you are reading this comment while imagining my voice, don't panic. That's just a side effect of the testing.


Posted by: Elder Bias
Seems that you guys don't understand how physics works. Although-out in novels, it was stated that UNSC Cruisers are NOT RATED for atmosphere, which it could mean two things: It cannot land in planet in normal means unless it is emergency situation (see to Pillar of Autumn's crashing at Halo.) and another thing: It cannot hover in the atmosphere because the planet's gravity would ultimately crush UNSC cruiser due to its mass and size.


Not necessarily true elder. You assume that "Not Rated" for atmosphere means it will ultimately destroy the ship, or that when it lands that it will land permanently. But you assume the worst and regret the possibility of it being able to handle the atmospheric pressures and gravity, but not the landing.

Remember Elder this is a science fiction game, where normal physical limits are exceeded by the fact that this is taking place in the future, where technology has advanced and where what was physically impossible today is possible in that future.

Not to mention that if you can find it plausible that a ship like the frigate, made of the same UNSC technology, can manage to float in the air with relative ease and accuracy, yet a ship who is slightly over two times larger in length cannot even hit the planet before it is torn apart, or with some assistance to land without being permanently stuck.

You see those boosters on Pillar of Autumn in Reach? That is chemical boosters and we know that it is not enough to lift off the Pillar of Autumn because it does not produce enough energy. I calculated the booster's power to lift the ship (based on few seconds of cut-scene). It was about 36 million newtons of force which it is far too weak for the ship to lift off the atmosphere in Reach. Maybe it was designed to lift a cruiser high enough for main engines to start but it's all moot because of gravity would -blam!- the ship up.

Those propellants are obviously not capable of bringing the ship to the surface safely, nor capable of lifting it out of the gravity well, but it is capable of lifting it clear of any obstruction, and letting the main engines take over.

Watch the cutscene again and it's apparent that the main engines can take it out of atmosphere (based on the cutscene), if it's capable of pushing that ship through the atmosphere, then surely it's capable of helping it land, and letting the exterior boosters assist in the landing before the impact. There are plenty of ship yards around reach, they used a lot of them to block plasma bolts in the battle of reach, perhaps cruisers can land, but not on their own.


You see that Reach is slightly larger than Earth and it has more gravity, which it accounts for higher pressure of atmospheric which it hints that it would require more thrust/power/force to lift the ship off on Reach than Earth.

Remember elder that the frigates in reach too seem to not notice the difference in gravity or atmospheric pressures.

Again elder, think about the frigates, and if you are willing and able to completely ignore the fact that gigantic structures of metal are floating in air, then why are you so willing to say with certainty that it's impossible for the cruiser to even make it without being torn apart?

And if you do have a problem with the frigates floating, then this is not a problem you can have solely with reach, this is a problem you must have with halo 2 and halo 3 as well.

  • 05.21.2012 8:32 PM PDT

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Let me help:

PoA on the surface
There is a timeframe when john is in cyro on the PoA in tFoR where the PoA could have landed then taken off again.

Time it took reach to fall
This is the only REAL canon error, but even it can be handwaved with the crytsal.

Cortana being with halsely
It's explained in the journal; it's only HALF of cortana.

Halsely knowing about SIII's
This is (partly) what caused here to look through ackersons files in the first place, again, explained in the journal.

  • 05.22.2012 1:26 PM PDT


Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
Let me help:

PoA on the surface
There is a timeframe when john is in cyro on the PoA in tFoR where the PoA could have landed then taken off again.

Time it took reach to fall
This is the only REAL canon error, but even it can be handwaved with the crytsal.

Cortana being with halsely
It's explained in the journal; it's only HALF of cortana.

Halsely knowing about SIII's
This is (partly) what caused here to look through ackersons files in the first place, again, explained in the journal.



Part B = One thing Halo Reach did right IMO. Reach shouldn't have fallen in one day of fighting, and they shouldn't have been overrun within hours like the book tried saying.

  • 05.22.2012 1:51 PM PDT

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Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Avatar Korra
The Pillar of Autumn can't go in atmosphere. If it does then it's stuck in atmosphere. Explain that.


The fact that the Pillar of Autumn has an emergency landing sequence proves that Halcyon Cruisers can be in atmosphere.


I wouldn't exactly call this a "landing"

Also, to the gentleman above me. CRUISERS can't land in atmosphere, they break apart. The Forward Unto Dawn almost did and it was miniature compared to the Autumn.

Also, Halsey read Ackerson's files AFTER the events of Halo Reach, so she learned about the Spartans IIIs, was escorted by one, and then learned about the Spartan IIIs.

Bungie didnt feel like working on a story that made sense, so just went lazy and created a team of -blam!-y whiney -blam!-s who wear MJOLNIR for some reason in bright orange and blue colors despite the fact that they're against military regulation.



[Edited on 05.22.2012 2:13 PM PDT]

  • 05.22.2012 2:11 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Gottalovec4

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Avatar Korra
The Pillar of Autumn can't go in atmosphere. If it does then it's stuck in atmosphere. Explain that.


The fact that the Pillar of Autumn has an emergency landing sequence proves that Halcyon Cruisers can be in atmosphere.


I wouldn't exactly call this a "landing"

Also, to the gentleman above me. CRUISERS can't land in atmosphere, they break apart. The Forward Unto Dawn almost did and it was miniature compared to the Autumn.

Also, Halsey read Ackerson's files AFTER the events of Halo Reach, so she learned about the Spartans IIIs, was escorted by one, and then learned about the Spartan IIIs.

Bungie didnt feel like working on a story that made sense, so just went lazy and created a team of -blam!-y whiney -blam!-s who wear MJOLNIR for some reason in bright orange and blue colors despite the fact that they're against military regulation.



Funny, the Autumn was already damaged from the fight at Reach and after being stuck by several plasma torpedoes and it didn't "break apart" once it landed on the ring, it was inoperable? yes, but it was mostly intact. Not to mention that it had no crew by the time it hit the ground so there was no way to properly land it.

The Forward unto Dawn had no problem when in atmosphere, in fact, it was more than okay while doing so, besides, if a Phoenix Class Carrier can be in atmosphere (which is twice as big as a Halcyon) then why can't a Cruiser be?

  • 05.22.2012 2:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Gottalovec4

Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Avatar Korra
The Pillar of Autumn can't go in atmosphere. If it does then it's stuck in atmosphere. Explain that.


The fact that the Pillar of Autumn has an emergency landing sequence proves that Halcyon Cruisers can be in atmosphere.


I wouldn't exactly call this a "landing"

The problem with your logic there, is that the Autumn's hull was under great distress from the boarding pods and plasma shells, not to mention the Antimatter charge that disabled the ship entirely. Keyes flew the damn thing until he was forced to abandon ship in the ring's atmosphere, where the PoA landed reasonably intact somewhere in the ring's deserts.

EDIT: Sorry, the Antimatter Charge disabled the MAC Cannon, not the ship's capacity to fly.

[Edited on 05.22.2012 2:25 PM PDT]

  • 05.22.2012 2:20 PM PDT
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Oh my God, this discussion is still happening?! It's been a year and a half! Get over it!

The reality of the situation is simple. Bungie made a retcon.

You can try to rationalize the events of FoR in light of the events of Reach all you want, but at the end of the day, game canon > book canon, so Reach is right and the book is not.

Most of FoR still works if you're willing to ignore certain dates anyway, and the few legitimate plot holes can be hand-waved, as they have been many, many times by the fans and by 343.

Get over it, guys. It happened and the series has moved on. On the bright side, it looks like 343 is hell-bent on making sure nothing in the Halo universe ever contradicts anything else in the Halo universe again.

  • 05.22.2012 4:43 PM PDT

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