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This topic has moved here: Subject: My Only Gripe With Reach
  • Subject: My Only Gripe With Reach
Subject: My Only Gripe With Reach

Personally, the canon contradictions and gameplay alterations didn't really bother me. I just was annoyed by the lack of scale. Three frigates and a cruiser against a fleet that did not really feel to be "50 times" larger than the one that hit Earth? Rather than the UNSC's "fortress among the stars" I felt I was defending a small outlying colony. Only having ten levels didn't help.

  • 05.16.2012 3:43 AM PDT

Agreed. It seems to me that Bungie made every possible wrong decision when it came to delivering on the campaign promises they made. No sense of scale, no sense of urgency, no real emotional impact at all, it did not fit canon "like a glove," and was overall a dissapointment.

Which is why I'm glad 343i took over.

  • 05.16.2012 4:13 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Oh boy, this again. Just because Reach is a fortress does not mean there are defenses on every inch of land.

  • 05.16.2012 4:25 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: Xd00999
Oh boy, this again. Just because Reach is a fortress does not mean there are defenses on every inch of land.


This.

When they meant fortress. They meant more of an orbital fortress. Not fortress in the literal sense of the word. It had impressive bases and training grounds, and home to the UNSC's best and deadliest, but that doesn't mean the whole planet was covered in turrets and SMAC Guns and -blam!- like that.

  • 05.16.2012 8:24 AM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: Xd00999
Oh boy, this again. Just because Reach is a fortress does not mean there are defenses on every inch of land.


This.

When they meant fortress. They meant more of an orbital fortress. Not fortress in the literal sense of the word. It had impressive bases and training grounds, and home to the UNSC's best and deadliest, but that doesn't mean the whole planet was covered in turrets and SMAC Guns and -blam!- like that.


Plus we only saw what Noble Team/Noble Six saw, we didn't go all over the planet and see every single scrap of defenses the UNSC had on Reach, we only saw whatever defenses were present where Noble Six went. Six is just one lone gal, she can't possibly be everywhere and see everything at once!

And really, we saw more UNSC military hardware/presence in Reach than we did in any other Halo game so far with the exception of possibly ODST.

[Edited on 05.16.2012 10:29 AM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 10:28 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: Xd00999
Oh boy, this again. Just because Reach is a fortress does not mean there are defenses on every inch of land.


This.

When they meant fortress. They meant more of an orbital fortress. Not fortress in the literal sense of the word. It had impressive bases and training grounds, and home to the UNSC's best and deadliest, but that doesn't mean the whole planet was covered in turrets and SMAC Guns and -blam!- like that.


Plus we only saw what Noble Team/Noble Six saw, we didn't go all over the planet and see every single scrap of defenses the UNSC had on Reach, we only saw whatever defenses were present where Noble Six went. Six is just one lone gal, she can't possibly be everywhere and see everything at once!

And really, we saw more UNSC military hardware/presence in Reach than we did in any other Halo game so far with the exception of possibly ODST.


Not to mention ONI was keeping like, 95% of the fleet at the other side of the planet, so the Army was the only one doing the work.

  • 05.16.2012 10:44 AM PDT

Questions lead to learning, learning leads to kowledge, knowledge leads to understanding, understanding leads to peace.



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Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: HipiO7
Posted by: Xd00999
Oh boy, this again. Just because Reach is a fortress does not mean there are defenses on every inch of land.


This.

When they meant fortress. They meant more of an orbital fortress. Not fortress in the literal sense of the word. It had impressive bases and training grounds, and home to the UNSC's best and deadliest, but that doesn't mean the whole planet was covered in turrets and SMAC Guns and -blam!- like that.


Plus we only saw what Noble Team/Noble Six saw, we didn't go all over the planet and see every single scrap of defenses the UNSC had on Reach, we only saw whatever defenses were present where Noble Six went. Six is just one lone gal, she can't possibly be everywhere and see everything at once!

And really, we saw more UNSC military hardware/presence in Reach than we did in any other Halo game so far with the exception of possibly ODST.


Not to mention ONI was keeping like, 95% of the fleet at the other side of the planet, so the Army was the only one doing the work.


Noble team wouldn't have been operating within military bases anyways. They would be sent out on high risk missions away from military bases because they would be the only ones who could get the job done.

  • 05.16.2012 11:45 AM PDT


Posted by: DE4THINC4RN4TE

Noble team wouldn't have been operating within military bases anyways. They would be sent out on high risk missions away from military bases because they would be the only ones who could get the job done.


/Thread

[Edited on 05.16.2012 1:23 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 1:22 PM PDT

But really, three frigates to Halo 2's dozens upon dozens?

  • 05.18.2012 1:13 AM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Not to mention ONI was keeping like, 95% of the fleet at the other side of the planet, so the Army was the only one doing the work.


Source?

[Edited on 05.18.2012 10:35 AM PDT]

  • 05.18.2012 10:34 AM PDT


*rage vomits*


Rage at who?

  • 05.18.2012 8:40 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Agreed. It seems to me that Bungie made every possible wrong decision when it came to delivering on the campaign promises they made.


This should be good.

No sense of scale,

Go play Tip of the Spear again, and this time, pay attention to the background. There are four other battles raging for the other Spires, which are all protected by Scarab tanks. Just because Reach doesn't shove stupid anti-air Wraiths or easy as piss Scarabs doesn't mean there wasn't any sense of scale.

no sense of urgency,

Play New Alexandria again, and pay REAL close attention to the Covenant cruiser hovering right above your head. The Covenant cruiser roars agove you, causing your entire screen to shake, and then they proceed to glass New Alexandria before your very eyes. If that doesn't shout "Hurry up!" then I don't know what will.

no real emotional impact at all,


Bungie attempted to have you think of yourself as the Master Chief, to imagine your own face behind the iconic visor. Problem is, he speaks freely and he is essentially his own character. But since Noble Six's armor, gender, and voice are customizable, it gives the player the opportunity to actually make their own protagonist as they see fit, and thus it far easier to imagine yourself to be Noble Six, which brings me to my next point.

Since the player as identified Noble Six as themselves, they are now attached to N6, and that is why his/her death is so tragically great. If you died in Lone Wolf, then Noble Six canonically died. Now, why did I mention this? Because the bit adds another sense of immersion.

Noble Six died because you died, and the cutscene showing his/her death only activated when you died, so you at least you know that there was nothing you could've done. You were an unstoppable Spartan super soldier, but even you could not face overwhelming odds.

However, you can at least take satisfaction that you fought til the very end, just as your fellow Spartans had done before you. They gave up their lives for you, whether they knew it or not, and now you will join them in this plain of glass. Maybe you knew, maybe you didn't but either way, you indirectly saved the entire human race.

I dunno about you, but that seems pretty emotional to me.




it did not fit canon "like a glove,"
Neither did any piece of Halo media that wasn't made by Nylund. Honestly, the original edition of tFoR was stupid and needed to be retconned.
and was overall a dissapointment.

Not to me.

Which is why I'm glad 343i took over.

I'm not. They have hired Karen Traviss to write a trilogy of Halo books. Traviss even admitted that she doesn't like to research something because it makes the story "boring". If that doesn't have you at least second guessing 343i's judgment, then you are a more trusting man than I.

  • 05.18.2012 11:57 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: TedToaster22

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Not to mention ONI was keeping like, 95% of the fleet at the other side of the planet, so the Army was the only one doing the work.


Source?


The Data Drops that were released some months ago. ONI used the Visegrad Relay incident (which they simply called a relay down, no Covenant mention) as a way to keep most of the fleet (and by most I mean like 90-95%) at the other side of Reach.

"Can you please get Casimir Station on the line for me again? Cortana's running through theta right now so I'm trying to check our sensor matrix before it cycles, but I'm noticing some heavy EM readings bouncing off Turul and I'm not sure what to make of it. CTR3 says it's fine, but I've seen fine before and this ain't it. These numbers...they're through the damn roof! Is this why FLEETCOM won't let us out from Lábatlan? Bridge crew is starting to ask questions and the captain's gonna be here in a few. I'd like a reason for why we're parked in all of this heavy traffic with the rest of the fleet instead of pushing out pass the moon and I don't want that scripted crap about their relay being down. Get someone out there to fix the damn thing already if it's holding up this much traffic!"

LOVELL // 78349-90983-WL


Also, this:

Also, was there some sort of fireworks celebration planned for today that I don't know about? Our geosynch req's got us holding steady over Lábatlan, but I swear I saw something flare up over Eposz few minutes ago. We're way too far to confirm though. My condo's in New Alexandria. I'll have to ask Candace if she saw anything when we get back."


ABIAD // 25190-26374-RA


Basically, ONI was doing this to capture a Covenant vessel, as it is explained here:

>> 00834 19223 HS // VADM STANFORTH, HIERONYMUS MICHAEL
<< 00230 00923 MP // ADM PARANGOSKY, MARGARET ORLENDA


RE: OPERATION: RED FLAG

STATUS: GREEN


Margaret,
Some days I really get the feeling that we're going to burn in hell for the things we do. Today is one of those days. Just finished briefing the team with Halsey and they still don't suspect a thing. No one does on this side of the planet. We're keeping them well away from the primary target sites where, as far as I can tell, all hell is breaking loose and has been for some time. Army says they've got it handled groundside, but I'll believe that when I see it. Regardless, we can't allow RED FLAG to be compromised by what's going on over there. If it does, this'll all be for naught.


I feel like we're going to need to tell Keyes at some point, otherwise, as soon as the Covenant show up, and I mean really show up. He'll scrub RED FLAG and jump in with guns blazing. He's not the type to avoid a fight, hell, he ran headlong into one just last month, all on his own. Our one hope is that the Covenant bring their big ships to the front early and that the Spartans can do what they do best.


Holland's informed me that the only [CLASS FIVE CSO] they've confirmed, a vessel called "LONG NIGHT OF SOLACE," was dropped just outside of New Alexandria a few days ago. That could have been ours if SpecWar wasn't so damn trigger happy. Now we'll just have to wait, pull the Covenant in deep enough to bring the damn trap down right on top of them.

  • 05.19.2012 12:39 AM PDT

I admit it, my complaints basically amount to "Wah, there was no titanic space battle!"

  • 05.19.2012 1:31 AM PDT


Posted by: Sigma617
Yep, Reach used to be a military base.

Now it's a hungarian farmstead.

Sometimes I think I've come to peace with Reach, and then little threads in this forum just kick up a storm of anger.

Ugh.


Rememeber "The Fall of Reach" book? Oh yeah, it describes the majority of Reach as... wilderness.

Edit: Also... Halo 2's dozens of frigates were mainly 2-d blobs flying in one direction that randomly pop.

[Edited on 05.19.2012 7:30 AM PDT]

  • 05.19.2012 7:29 AM PDT
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I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.


Posted by: Sigma617
Yep, Reach used to be a military base.

Now it's a hungarian farmstead.

Sometimes I think I've come to peace with Reach, and then little threads in this forum just kick up a storm of anger.

Ugh.


Let me calm down your rage. Those are just the settlements of the early colonists; Reach wasn't a military planet from the start. I mean sure, every second there wasn't a gun factory, but why would there be?

  • 05.20.2012 6:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: ALPHAslayER1911

No sense of scale,

Go play Tip of the Spear again, and this time, pay attention to the background. There are four other battles raging for the other Spires, which are all protected by Scarab tanks.

Just because Reach doesn't shove stupid anti-air Wraiths or easy as piss Scarabs doesn't mean there wasn't any sense of scale.
Mostly background. Only the Scarabs are actual objects. Then again, H3 also had background fighting.

Hence, for a sense of scale, CE and H2 are the better examples. Reach compared to them is not very impressive. Reach compared to H3 however is an improvement. If it weren't for the 10 second countdowns of course.

Yeah you have a point there. The Hornets are hugely nerfed to get pwned by the AA Wraiths (my Hornet army gets pwned by them all the time unless I help) and let's face it, the AA Wraiths are terrible.

Posted by: ALPHAslayER1911
no sense of urgency,

Play New Alexandria again, and pay REAL close attention to the Covenant cruiser hovering right above your head. The Covenant cruiser roars agove you, causing your entire screen to shake, and then they proceed to glass New Alexandria before your very eyes. If that doesn't shout "Hurry up!" then I don't know what will.
That's just cinematics, which Reach excelled at. Gameplay on the other hand isn't as convincing. Noble Team are invincible and they kill everything only because of that. It's not only frustrating to lose an opportunity to shape a battle, it's also absurd.

Compare LNoS' beach landings to T&R's boarding battle, AotCR's megabattles. You can't fight the beach enemies differently because nearly all of them are killed by Noble Team. Whereas in T&R's boarding battle, you have the option to go into hiding and get a mass of enemies, with up to 10 Zealots! AotCR's megabattles are even bigger, where you can get up to 80 AI!!

Even in H3, there's ways to stop/disarm invincible allies for such battling. And if there are no invincibles, that's even better. Going up the elevator in the first tower on The Covenant without killing any enemies will result in massed enemies at the entrance when you come back down. You can bring equipment and weapons down the elevator and you'll have enough ammo to fight them without resorting to the BR/Carbine.

Posted by: ALPHAslayER1911
no real emotional impact at all,

Noble Six died because you died, and the cutscene showing his/her death only activated when you died, so you at least you know that there was nothing you could've done. You were an unstoppable Spartan super soldier, but even you could not face overwhelming odds.
I can't feel immersion in that cutscene. How can cutscene Noble Six perform better and last longer than I can in gameplay? Also, that Zealot ambush on Winter Contingency. How can cutscene Noble Six fend off a Zealot who has the surprise advantage but I can't even handle an Elite minor in cqc? There should be correlation between gameplay and cutscene.

H3 ODST's ODSTs vs. Chieftain fight was a lot more believable.

One problem in Reach and H3 is that during and after cutscenes, your weapons are gone and you're left wielding your default weapons. H2 was the only Halo that had your weapon in the cutscene. Sure it didn't let you customize your character like Reach, but the weapons made it believable.

Posted by: ALPHAslayER1911
Which is why I'm glad 343i took over.

I'm not. They have hired Karen Traviss to write a trilogy of Halo books. Traviss even admitted that she doesn't like to research something because it makes the story "boring". If that doesn't have you at least second guessing 343i's judgment, then you are a more trusting man than I.
Same here.

I dislike their handling of CEA. It's campaign is not the same experience. And most new skulls are absurd, even my favorite one Pinata.

[Edited on 05.20.2012 6:48 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2012 6:42 PM PDT