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  • Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?

@spawn031

"So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories." John Williams

Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
"Our forum is better, is has qualifications."

"What the -blam!-?! Why are they so special?!"

OR

"What the -blam!-?! Why does there need to be qualifications to get into the Septagon?"

"Our forum is better, you can join right away."

But no forum is "better" than any other forum. That's where the qualifications come in. These restrictions would be barriers that would allow more intense debates and discussion on a regular basis without going off topic.

How many times in this forum have you seen the argument of anything related to facebook or social networking go completely off topic, simply because of people saying 'Bungie.net isn't facebook!". Then the entire thread turns into a different discussion, ends up getting locked, and even a few bans are handed out.

Creating these barriers for users would eliminate the need of having threads go off topic. Over at NeoGAF, when you first join, you're a "junior member." I am still on that title. Junior members can't create threads. I have been over there for a year, and I still cannot make threads. What does that provide for me? Become an active participant, and eventually you will be upgraded. If I never post and don't really care to post at all, they assume I'm fine with lurking and just replying to threads.

The point of this is to create that incentive for positive posting. Right now as it stands, the only real way for users to have incentive on their account is the title system, and that isn't much. People want what they can't have, it's human nature. Even implementing something such as only linking a gamertag, or being a member for three months, would still filter those restrictions accordingly.

I'm not completely 100% in favor of the idea I have presented. It's worth an open discussion in the community though. I think we can all learn from this different approach.

  • 05.16.2012 7:44 PM PDT

Key

While it's obvious to any reasonably intelligent person that no forum is inherently "better" than another... people are idiots.

[Edited on 05.16.2012 7:47 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 7:46 PM PDT

Every member of the Covenant shall walk the path. None will be left behind when our Great Journey begins. That is the Prophets' age-old promise, and it shall be fulfilled!

The Mythic Rebellion would restart.

  • 05.16.2012 7:48 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: CrazzySnipe55
people are idiots.
QFT

  • 05.16.2012 7:48 PM PDT
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Proud Virgo.


Posted by: spawn031
Posted by: Twilli
EDIT: When I think about it. Maybe make a completely different forum?

That is the other solution, while it's not what I originally presented, that is literally the entire context of this thread I linked.

The problem with having another forum, is that you literally would have two forums that would be based around the same discussion. There would need to be reason to obtain that forum than simply keeping it restricted.

Would it be an off topic forum? Game forum? A public forum where advertising groups is allowed? What about showing off art? The limits are endless. The point is there needs to be a clear purpose when there is a new forum created.


Oops! Sorry, I kinda skimmed your post. :/ Didn't know you linked something else.

And, for type of forum...

Bungie Blue-Quasi Forum - A forum for the disciplined and active members of the community. Off topic, with a twist.

Restrictions:
Account Age of at least one year.
Active member of at least six months.
No bans for six months.
No warnings for three months.

Yea, BBQ Forum. Or something to that equivalent. The clear purpose is for people with dedication to the community have a place to have fun, chat, and just chill. I shortened up your restrictions a little bit. (Active for a year? That's kinda hard.) Why off-topic? So it doesn't overlap with this forum. What about the flood, you say? BBQ Forum would have a lot less spam, trolling and otherwise.

  • 05.16.2012 7:51 PM PDT

“Oh, it’s a little bit of everything, it’s the mountains, it’s the fog, it’s the news at six o’clock, it’s the death of my first dog, it’s the angels up above me, it’s the song that they don’t sing, It’s a little bit of everything.”
- Dawes, A little bit of everything

The Community wouldn't be a community if it didn't accept new members to participate in general community talk. I like the near minimalism forums that are present here. We have boards for the games, the community, and an off-topic board for who-knows-what.

Sure, perhaps a club for regulars would be nice, but we already have that in Private Groups, do we not?

Basically, I don't think there should be any more restrictions added to the forums. Optimatch required a linked gamertag because it was about the Xbox LIVE playlists. The community doesn't require that one be a veteran of the community, just being a member is enough.

  • 05.16.2012 7:54 PM PDT

Where would a new member go to discuss aspects of the community itself?

  • 05.16.2012 7:55 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member

For Carnage, Apply Within.

I have returned from the Untamed Lands. MOAP is dead.


Posted by: dazarobbo
Where would a new member go to discuss aspects of the community itself?
They would go to you. Think of all the awesome messages you and the other ninjas would receive. You guys would certainly be popular.

  • 05.16.2012 7:58 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: dazarobbo
Where would a new member go to discuss aspects of the community itself?
PM Duardo.

  • 05.16.2012 7:59 PM PDT

@spawn031

"So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories." John Williams

Posted by: dazarobbo
Where would a new member go to discuss aspects of the community itself?

That's the flip side of the coin. With adding these, consideration need to be made for newer members that really don't have a niche for the upcoming game itself. Perhaps they saw a Bungie Weekly Update, and feel the need to discuss the community itself.

Sure, but that's where the line is drawn, should there be essentially 2 forums? They both need common purposes, each to their own. But there should be enough differences between them to distinguish each one.

So essentially there could be your classic septagon community forum and another with the adding restrictions. They point being for incentive. If however, when the site update happens, there are different ways for account incentive to keep active, perhaps this whole idea would just be a fluke. Who knows!?

  • 05.16.2012 8:00 PM PDT

Questions lead to learning, learning leads to kowledge, knowledge leads to understanding, understanding leads to peace.



"I would kill to get a killionaire... 10 times... digitally."

I wouldn't want to see the community forum restricted, but a forum made for community members with 1+ years on the site with activity would be interesting. Maybe run some special contests for their "devoted" members.

  • 05.16.2012 8:02 PM PDT

Key


Posted by: spawn031
Posted by: dazarobbo
Where would a new member go to discuss aspects of the community itself?

That's the flip side of the coin. With adding these, consideration need to be made for newer members that really don't have a niche for the upcoming game itself. Perhaps they saw a Bungie Weekly Update, and feel the need to discuss the community itself.

Sure, but that's where the line is drawn, should there be essentially 2 forums? They both need common purposes, each to their own. But there should be enough differences between them to distinguish each one.

So essentially there could be your classic septagon community forum and another with the adding restrictions. They point being for incentive. If however, when the site update happens, there are different ways for account incentive to keep active, perhaps this whole idea would just be a fluke. Who knows!?
I think the way you're coming at this, you're looking at the Septagon as a club. The 'public' private group, as it were.

While the Septagon seems to create this kind of atmosphere, we can't forget that this is essentially a forum to discuss Bungie.net as a website, as well as ask questions about and discuss the community. While lots of this isn't done in a very linear manner, it's still the essential focus of the forum as a whole. If it were just this 'public' private group that lots of people may subconsciously think of it as, this might be a more acceptable proposition (though I'd still be against it) but the main uses and core focus of this forum pretty much gets rid of any possibility to logically restrict it to new users or to any user for that matter.

  • 05.16.2012 8:05 PM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

I am against restricted forums, since they close off the site to well intentioned newer members of the community. That said, if you did have a restricted forum I would remove restrictions that can feel arbitrary (we have been spending years trying to figure out exactly how the title system works) and make the requirements more concrete. For example a user would only be allowed to use the forum if they have made 100 posts and gone 3 months without a ban. This would both encourage activity without becoming frustrating or overly hard to attain.

  • 05.16.2012 8:08 PM PDT

Posted by: A Bit Of Zero
This thread would have appealed to me more if it was written with crayons.
Posted by: King Dutchy
I broke one of the cords for my X11s because I couldn't get past the final American course in Doritos Crash Course.

Bungie Community

A gathering place for elders to laugh at the 'others'.

  • 05.16.2012 8:11 PM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Posted by: spawn031
So I pose you with a question:
What if the community forum was restricted?[/quote]I have never heard of a more frightening idea. Tell me more!

What would the community forum be like if it was restricted access?

The main idea:
!. ANYONE could VIEW the forum.
2. Only members that meet the admittance requirements, would be able to POST in the forum.
Gee spawn, this sounds great! A near utopia of hegemonic single-mindedness, brown-nosing, and boredom.

Example restrictions:
1. Must have linked gamertag
2. Must be a member of Bungie.net for at least 1 year
3. Must have a current title/prefix of any kind - so "honorable member", "forum ninja", or "Bungie Employee" could post there.
Now spawn I know you mention the small faults of this system down the way but surely you cannot think such attributes would allow entry into our septanirvana. First off, it's foolish to think that new users and trolls are the true degraders of the discussion. Take a look at these meaningful, well-thought, and purposeful posts following the news:

http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=61563623
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=62070205
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=61581655
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=62070210
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=62412797

You silly mislead fool, it's not the newer less-titled members we should be concerned with, it's the older ones! The older ones and those damned crafty employees are taking away our INTENSE discussion. I do agree that a linked gamertag is a wonderful indicator of trust, because I back you in the belief that users with linked gamertags are incapable of contributing to even the most elementary of discussions.

The purpose?
Have you ever wanted a forum that was based on INTENSE discussion?
No. Unless we get guns. Then, yes.
With adding restrictions to the forums, users would have to meet the criteria if they would like to participate. This would eliminate the common alt accounts, trolls, spam, and other unwanted posts.spawn I'm fine with not letting small people on the big person ride but dammit man that's for safety. What are these 'unwanted posts'? Once you take away the trolls and such all that's left are new members. Spawn, I can understand not wanting new members into already bursting exclusive Bungie Heaven, but calling them "unwanted posts" is a little demeaning.

The forum would keep the same discussion value, being about community related topics, the website itself and other Bungie related material.Holy -blam!- I love this sentence! Of your entire post I believe this one holds the most truth. Nothing could be more true. The forum would keep the same discussion value. Your ultimate endgame of improving user-content in the forums would be in vane. Thank you for this sentence.

The idea is that this forum would set the examples and hopefully "bleed" into other forum attitudes on bungie.net.What the -blam!- spawn?

When I used antagonizing terms like same-mindness and hegemony above, I was joking. I had no idea you wanted everyone to act the same way. This won't improve the quality of discussion, having everyone be supportive and unquestioning and like-minded. We need raw ideas and criticism to create genuine content. If everyone's all "that's great I totally agree good fer you" I frankly would not want to read it. It would be boring and repetitive.
If you're a consistent contributor in this forum, you have obviously proven that you're capable of following the rules.Nope. If you considering someone making a post that doesn't violate a rule to be 'contributing', then sure, you're right. But when I hear 'contributing', I think of people posting meaningful, dynamic, and even dangerous posts about improvements, opinions, and critiques. If someone's going to contribute something unique, they're going to be creative. If you honestly think creativity will bloom from conformity (to the rules), then you're just plain crazy.

If you act out of line in this forum, you could still be "banned" or "warned", yet you would also lose your privileges to post in the forum until you regain some title.Great idea! Someone posts something in the gray area, and pow! You can't post here. Safe topics only!

The incentive for positive contribution is there.Are we going to just cut out anything you would consider negative?
Creating account is much loose here. Knowing that, it's relatively easy to spot when someone is just spamming a forum with useless content or breaking rules.I still think new members are better.
With the one year membership in place, is it honestly worth it to create an account and work it's way up to some title only to have one infraction and in a sense "troll" the forum for 10 minutes or less, only to be removed from it? I don't see a reason to spend all that time for that one moment.I would do it. You clearly underestimate the power of desire. You're working your argument as a means to deter trolling, but ultimately your cutting out a large quantity of the userbase in doing so. Swatting flies is one thing, but targeting people who may not be trolling or may even contribute worthwhile content is really undermining the quality your bland bnet haven.

Member titles aren't always a best indicator of a user's trust - but they're usually fairly accurate.I agree. Even though I've been banned regularly, and likely in total more than a year, I'm a mythic member. System works fine! As of right now, this idea doesn't seem plausible due to low activity. But once Bungie shows off their new baby, activity will kick back up just like development for any of their prior games. Think of it like the Optimatch forum. It would have restrictions, but anyone can view it.While we wouldn't be improving the current memberbase of veterans who post the same crap, we would at least cut out new members capable of new, quality discussion. Great!

A public forum with regulated access to actually posting in it would allow Bungie employees to interact with users who have proven their trustworthiness and dedication to the site. The interaction could be much more as it was years ago, when the forums were much more readable, the topics were more well-thought out, the users were more self-regulating, and every post by a Bungie employee did not result in a tidal wave of people either sucking up or proving their "rebelliousness" by disagreeing solely on principle that the post was created by an employee.*


Fauxman made a nice post, but when you think about it, if you want the forums to be more readable and self-regulating, your target is not newer members or trolls but the existing members. Trolls just get banned, and newer members eventually figure things out. The dream-like Bungie you and Fauxman desire requires you to change the posting habits of our regular members. We're perfectly capable of doing it just as we did, but instead you simply want to cut some of the userbase off instead of trying to get us back into the swing of things. Restricting the forums to the current people won't accomplish a thing, as this these older members will not spontaneously become more readable and self-regulating; they certainly don't act it now. Also, if they're so capable of self-regulating, then all these improvements would be wholly unnecessary, as they could just help improve the lower echelons of the userbase, or just be mature and ignore posts that don't contribute.

All in all the goal is simply this: The public forums are moderated by the moderation for how efficient they are, their are only so many hours in a day. This forum would help create that "homestead" for regular users. I'm not talking about user that log into Bungie.net 1 or 2 times a week for 10 minute sessions. I'm talking about the users like you and me that log in daily, participate in groups, interact with the Bungie Community Staff, take part in contests and weekly write-ups that try to improve the community.

The point of this forum is for US to have a place to discuss what the community is about. Highly intelligent posts and threads with regards to Bungie.net as a whole. This isn't a "safe haven" from all the bad users on this website. This is just a quieter place where the member that are "regulars" around here can sit down and ask questions and talk about the community with users that have been around for a while.
I would not classify this board as 'highly intelligent'. If you're going to make this into an US vs. THEM issue, you may realize that there are just as many intelligent newer users are there are older ones: not many. To see newer users as only rule-breaking idiot trolls and older septagon-frequenters as interesting and intelligent is simply fallacious. If you want to improve the site, think of improving the members, not just splintering the community based on adherence to rules or account age.


[Edited on 05.16.2012 8:15 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 8:11 PM PDT
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Proud Virgo.


Posted by: Duck duck DEATH


You seem like you're in a bad mood. However, I'll just say, you seem to be making things more black and white than they really are.

  • 05.16.2012 8:36 PM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Posted by: Twilli
Posted by: Duck duck DEATH


You seem like you're in a bad mood. However, I'll just say, you seem to be making things more black and white than they really are.
Do elaborate.

  • 05.16.2012 8:37 PM PDT

Friends before pixels.

All I see "private" groups or "secret" groups or "restricted" forums as, are just dick waving places where people can look down at the rest and say "I'm better than you."

  • 05.16.2012 8:41 PM PDT

@spawn031

"So much of what we do is ephemeral and quickly forgotten, even by ourselves, so it's gratifying to have something you have done linger in people's memories." John Williams


Posted by: Duck duck DEATH
Now this is the discussion I loathe for ;) First off, thank you. Thanks for hashing out this discussion with me. It's been years since a intense one was had. They were mostly in private groups, meh. It's been a while since this was evident in the community forum. Now, onward!

The older ones and those damned crafty employees are taking away our INTENSE discussion. I do agree that a linked gamertag is a wonderful indicator of trust, because I back you in the belief that users with linked gamertags are incapable of contributing to even the most elementary of discussions.
The older ones are the obvious culprits! So essentially we should ultimately have a forum based for NEWER members only! It seems that being old and senile is getting to most of us. We're losing the discussion skills that happened back in the "glory days of Halo 2" as many call it.

No. Unless we get guns. Then, yes.
How about EXTREME? Okay, enough with the references, I know.

What are these 'unwanted posts'? Once you take away the trolls and such all that's left are new members. Spawn, I can understand not wanting new members into already bursting exclusive Bungie Heaven, but calling them "unwanted posts" is a little demeaning.
Perhaps I should've included "unwanted posts" in with the etc. bit. Bungie Heaven? Wait, we're not in it already!?

Holy -blam!- I love this sentence! Of your entire post I believe this one holds the most truth. Nothing could be more true. The forum would keep the same discussion value. Your ultimate endgame of improving user-content in the forums would be in vane. Thank you for this sentence.
You're welcome. Unless there are ways to create multiple forums with the same discussion value, I highly doubt this would exist in the first place. Like you mentioned before, the whole "bungie.net heaven" would cease to already (if not) exist.

What the -blam!- spawn?
You remember that time growing up where you weren't allow to be on the big boy swing? Similar idea, yet completely different. They were setting examples for the rest of the kids on the playground. What's a little thread doing if it's not going offtopic? Indeed! Use the grey area and play in the tidbits that we're not suppose too. After all, the "bleed effect" I'm referring to is setting the prime example for many other forums to come.

If you honestly think creativity will bloom from conformity (to the rules), then you're just plain crazy.
You heard it here first folks. See above response for reference.

Great idea! Someone posts something in the gray area, and pow! You can't post here. Safe topics only!
What would be another suggestion to not having users partake if they were to be caught crossing the line?

I still think new members are better.
Is that based on unpredictability? Perhaps this thread is a great example of that, it's getting to be fairly unpredictable as we move along here.

I would do it. You clearly underestimate the power of desire. You're working your argument as a means to deter trolling, but ultimately your cutting out a large quantity of the userbase in doing so. Swatting flies is one thing, but targeting people who may not be trolling or may even contribute worthwhile content is really undermining the quality your bland bnet haven.
For 10 minutes of glory with a mixed glass of shame? For what purpose? To say that you have the T shirt? Anyone that actually pulls that off would seem like an utter waste of time. But ultimately, what are we all doing on this website in the first place?

I agree. Even though I've been banned regularly, and likely in total more than a year, I'm a mythic member. System works fine!
Like I said, fairly. Unfortunately the system doesn't measure playing right next to the fence, otherwise we'd see legions of members being banned.

While we wouldn't be improving the current memberbase of veterans who post the same crap, we would at least cut out new members capable of new, quality discussion. Great!
Obvious cutting discussion is obvious. Let the newer ones catch up by reading and seeing how regulars interact with each other. Even if there is a week wait period, there might be great incentive to read the sticky threads and the FAQ, rather than making a new thread on every topic they see.

Also, if they're so capable of self-regulating, then all these improvements would be wholly unnecessary, as they could just help improve the lower echelons of the userbase, or just be mature and ignore posts that don't contribute.
Wholly unnecessary? Perhaps, but we won't know until the new fanbase arrives for Bungie's next project. Perhaps the dream I have of creating this indifferent fantasy world on bungie.net is different than most (take that as you please) but it would be nice to have a goal in mind!

think of improving the members, not just splintering the community based on adherence to rules or account age.
The easiest way to improve member is to give them a goal; something to shoot for. If there is no target but you give them a gun, what are they going to do? Thanks for the reply! ;)

  • 05.16.2012 8:43 PM PDT

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Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

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What if I told you, that I think that's a horrible idea?

Newbies kinda need this place. Requiring a gamertag for forums like optimatch is fine, but this isn't the place to start pushing people out.

While people cherish their "intelligent discussion" on this forum, we have to keep in mind that new people need this place, too. It's a vital function for this forum and there's no good reason to push people out.

Essentially, we'd be turning this into a club house for the boys in pretty blue and grey suits.

[Edited on 05.16.2012 8:46 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 8:45 PM PDT

The Song Of Nephilim

Xenoblade <3

This is not a good idea. Probably would be nice, but then suspicious.

  • 05.16.2012 8:46 PM PDT
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Proud Virgo.


Posted by: Duck duck DEATH
Posted by: Twilli
Posted by: Duck duck DEATH


You seem like you're in a bad mood. However, I'll just say, you seem to be making things more black and white than they really are.
Do elaborate.

Well, you seem to think no good can possibly come from this. I think, if done properly, much good can come from this, and that it's at least worth a shot, making another forum for the purpose of having a place for regulars to hang out, talk about controversial subjects without getting flamed into pieces, and mingle with mods/employees a little bit.
Of course, I realize much elitist jackassery can come from this, but it's worth a test run, at the very least I believe. If it works, bonus. Of course, not everyone is going to like it. Not everyone likes the Community forum, or the Flood forum. And no one likes the Classifieds. They're still there.

  • 05.16.2012 8:47 PM PDT

Who the hell do you think I am?

I fail to understand how restricting a user's ability to post by their account age would increase the quality of the forum.

[Edited on 05.16.2012 8:49 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 8:48 PM PDT

I do not entirely object to this idea, but it would just have to be reasonable restrictions.

  • 05.16.2012 8:52 PM PDT

Roll the dice, try again.


Posted by: THE SALTY CHIP
I fail to understand how restricting a user's ability to post by their account age would increase the quality of the forum.

You obviously have never been over on the GAF forums.

  • 05.16.2012 8:53 PM PDT