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This topic has moved here: Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?
  • Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?

Who the hell do you think I am?


Posted by: Marathon

Posted by: THE SALTY CHIP
I fail to understand how restricting a user's ability to post by their account age would increase the quality of the forum.

You obviously have never been over on the GAF forums.
Sorry, I have no idea what the "GAF" forums are.

  • 05.16.2012 8:55 PM PDT

Please stop complaining about the 'death of a loved one' it's my job. They probably deserved it anyways. Here's a warning, if you keep making pentagrams out of the neighbors livestock I will personally come to your house and kill everyone you love. Now leave me alone, I got to get back to work.
~M.D~

I like it, except I wouldn't be able to post here anymore :,(

  • 05.16.2012 9:03 PM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted? Updated: Adding Forum

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Posted by: spawn031
Posted by: Duck duck DEATH
Now this is the discussion I loathe for ;) First off, thank you.
Curses!

The older ones are the obvious culprits! So essentially we should ultimately have a forum based for NEWER members only! It seems that being old and senile is getting to most of us. We're losing the discussion skills that happened back in the "glory days of Halo 2" as many call it.While out-with-the-old-in-with-the-new does keep things fresh, I'm sure we can both agree to the absurdity now of targeting one specific usergroup based on age. With this settled, I would now like to put forth our new focus of discussion: excluding the entire userbase.

Perhaps I should've included "unwanted posts" in with the etc. bit. Bungie Heaven? Wait, we're not in it already!?It's ok, there are posts we probably both don't want. Septanirvana is only a small cloud in the Bungie Heaven.


You're welcome. Unless there are ways to create multiple forums with the same discussion value, I highly doubt this would exist in the first place. Like you mentioned before, the whole "bungie.net heaven" would cease to already (if not) exist.Discussion value is not specific to a forum, but to the posts of its threads. I would not go about viewing forums in such a general manner,

You remember that time growing up where you weren't allow to be on the big boy swing? Similar idea, yet completely different. They were setting examples for the rest of the kids on the playground. What's a little thread doing if it's not going offtopic? Indeed! Use the grey area and play in the tidbits that we're not suppose too. After all, the "bleed effect" I'm referring to is setting the prime example for many other forums to come.I firmly believe there is a middle ground which we desire between rule conformity and creativity, and for this reason I believe we should be more lenient to users who break certain rules or norms for the purpose of creating new exciting content.

If you honestly think creativity will bloom from conformity (to the rules), then you're just plain crazy.
You heard it here first folks. See above response for reference.
While that statement is rather dangerous, just to clarify, what is your position with regards to 'plain crazy'?

What would be another suggestion to not having users partake if they were to be caught crossing the line?Perhaps a more flexible system of punishment. It truly depends on where you draw the line, and with the current rules, that's really subjective.

Is that based on unpredictability? Perhaps this thread is a great example of that, it's getting to be fairly unpredictable as we move along here.Unpredictability is great but it's probably a groundless bias.

For 10 minutes of glory with a mixed glass of shame?Not everything against the rules brings one shame.
For what purpose?Fun and expression.
To say that you have the T shirt?It's the effort that counts.
Anyone that actually pulls that off would seem like an utter waste of time. But ultimately, what are we all doing on this website in the first place?I would consider that a worthwhile use of time, but only if I enjoyed it. We are here to post, and to post is glorious.


Obvious cutting discussion is obvious. Let the newer ones catch up by reading and seeing how regulars interact with each other.Some newer members may be new to our website yet wise to the art of discussion.
Even if there is a week wait period, there might be great incentive to read the sticky threads and the FAQ, rather than making a new thread on every topic they see.It doesn't take a week to read those threads thoroughly.

Wholly unnecessary? Perhaps, but we won't know until the new fanbase arrives for Bungie's next project. Perhaps the dream I have of creating this indifferent fantasy world on bungie.net is different than most (take that as you please) but it would be nice to have a goal in mind!If the userbase became self-regulating because of such features would you entertain the idea of removing it until it would again be needed? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

The easiest way to improve member is to give them a goal; something to shoot for. If there is no target but you give them a gun, what are they going to do?Surely they will make a target. That is the desire, new and great content to the site.

Thanks for the reply! ;)Agreeing to disagree is ok I guess.

[Edited on 05.16.2012 9:10 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2012 9:06 PM PDT

It only takes a simple question to change everything.

Yes! This is a very exclusive forum that only certain people should post in! We can finally keep the common rubbish out! This forum will be poisoned by the lesser no longer! Imagine how swiftly this place would grow into an elite sanctuary if the commoners were expelled! We need to push for this change! This could finally rid this forum of the common scum, and it would leave only the superior members to post!

  • 05.16.2012 9:38 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

I would be in favor of something like this. It would give members a reason to follow forum rules and serve as a block to the alternate account troll/spam accounts.

An additional forum like this would not "restrict" anybody's ability to post. It would not prevent everybody from sharing their opinion. It would simply provide an extra place mostly free of the types of posts that make video game forums so notorious and infamous around the internet.

No need for a super-long post here, though. My response on page 4 of the "recommended reading" thread in the OP is several years old, but pretty much explains my opinion on this issue. I think a lot of the things I said there still hold true today.

  • 05.16.2012 10:54 PM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
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Posted by: Duck duck DEATH
I firmly believe there is a middle ground which we desire between rule conformity and creativity, and for this reason I believe we should be more lenient to users who break certain rules or norms for the purpose of creating new exciting content.

I disagree. The rules aren't too strict to creativity and criticism. I personally am a very critical person when I don't particularly enjoy something. However, I can still present my point in a non-rule breaking manner, regardless of how strong my opinion is. For that reason I have never suffered any form of punishement.

You see, the catch here is to present your criticism and negative views in a constructive and intelligent manner instead of resorting to kicking and crying until you get banned.

Unless the rules themselves are awfully restrictive (openly denying alternate views), creativity and criticism are not restricted at all. Instead, well made rules guide the discussion to be intelligent and polite. After all, there is nothing a discussion could merit from flaming and trolling, both are only detrimental to any form of intelligence.

  • 05.16.2012 11:28 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member

For Carnage, Apply Within.

I have returned from the Untamed Lands. MOAP is dead.

Let me see if I got this right...

B.net is a neighborhood. The forums, (Optimatch, Community, Flood, Marty Army, etc) are the houses. Some of these houses have locked doors. What OP is proposing is that the door to the Community house become locked. Ok.

No.

I have seen this on many other forums. They suck. They produce elitism. Nothing gets discussed in those forums. You'll only find inside jokes and forced memes there. That drunk gorilla just needs to make the groups better.

  • 05.17.2012 12:00 AM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?

Posted by: burritosenior

Posted by: spawn031
Recommended Reading:
Super Secret Forum?
I was gonna link that, because I love that thread.


I miss seeing the deleted forums that were mentioned in there... I'd love to see the archived H3 Beta forum.

  • 05.17.2012 12:13 AM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted? Updated: Adding Forum
  • gamertag: [none]
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:)

So the forum would become a poor-man's NeoGAF? Hah. No thanks.

  • 05.17.2012 12:57 AM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?

The world is not beautiful: And that, in a way, lends it a sort of beauty.

~Kino's Journey

'09 or bust i say.

  • 05.17.2012 1:06 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: Luke35120
Why restrict users of the site? The whole point is simplicity and user access. Making something that is a publicly available yet at the same time restricted will annoy the users.

  • 05.17.2012 3:03 AM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted? Updated: Adding Forum

"We live in a special time; the only time where we can observationally verify that we live in a very special time" - Lawrence Krauss.

I was a finalist :P

Instead of restricting the community forum, it'd be better to simply add another forum with said restrictions only. This forum has its uses to new members, as it provides information in regards to participation in community events, new information regarding Bungie, allows for close interaction with them when compared to other forums, and also allowing for feedback about certain aspects of the site any user - new or old - may have. Both parties - our hosts and users themselves - can't get the most out of this forum if it is given some sort of restricted access to act as a safeguard from the rare blatant troll or spammer.

Adding a new forum is a different story altogether; especially if it's a simply a place to discuss off-topic posts - much similar to the Flood - but with less traffic and with users who you've most likely gotten to know over the course of several years. It gives a positive incentive (which we need more of) toward keeping one account, and being active on that account whilst following the rules. The only problem I'd see is setting some sort of arbitrary objective where user access becomes permitted; being between that fine line of too easy and too strict. This objective would be difficult to deal with due to several variables which may be uncontrollable; such as title fluctuation - users which transcend between a title which grants them access, and one which does not. Another important factor would be users who get banned after they have gained access; would they automatically be restricted from the forum until they reach said objective again? Or is it a once only requirement; ignoring whatever happens afterward?

  • 05.17.2012 4:55 AM PDT

We're concerned

Cafe|MLP: FiM|Bnet Regulars|FCAW
Got a question, comment, or concern? PM me.

Posted by: EL
I have seen this on many other forums. They suck. They produce elitism. Nothing gets discussed in those forums. You'll only find inside jokes and forced memes there. That drunk gorilla just needs to make the groups better.
That already happens here anyways.

I think that the community would be a much better place if I were the only one allowed to post.

[Edited on 05.17.2012 5:03 AM PDT]

  • 05.17.2012 5:01 AM PDT

When I grow up I want to be bitter and spiteful.

"i liked the reality where everything was on fire better"
-legato on remedial chaos theory

Posted by: tsassi2
I disagree. The rules aren't too strict to creativity and criticism. I personally am a very critical person when I don't particularly enjoy something. However, I can still present my point in a non-rule breaking manner, regardless of how strong my opinion is. For that reason I have never suffered any form of punishment.

You see, the catch here is to present your criticism and negative views in a constructive and intelligent manner instead of resorting to kicking and crying until you get banned.

Unless the rules themselves are awfully restrictive (openly denying alternate views), creativity and criticism are not restricted at all. Instead, well made rules guide the discussion to be intelligent and polite. After all, there is nothing a discussion could merit from flaming and trolling, both are only detrimental to any form of intelligence.
You're post is very cute but after reading the first half I feel the need to remind you that attitude of the poster rarely factors into a ban (unless they fully lose composure), but rather they're typically banned for violating a rule. You too strongly associate negativity and flaming.

While the rules have been lightened to make them more easy to read and sadly subject to interpretation, for a very long time they were awfully restrictive. Not just towards topics of religion, politics, or mockery, but also harmless forms of creative expression. I have seen multitudes of benign threads banned because we had a zero-tolerance towards satire rule. While you may so praise the rules for being lenient and only punishing to detrimental discussion, this is certainly not the case. There are some moderators who do interpret the rules lightly and are more forgiving, but equally so there are moderators such as Fauxman who hand out multimonth bans for the slightest spark of witty taunt.

  • 05.17.2012 6:25 AM PDT
  • gamertag: S034
  • user homepage:

Gettin' all Herodotean up in here!


Posted by: cortana 5
What if I told you, that I think that's a horrible idea?

Newbies kinda need this place. Requiring a gamertag for forums like optimatch is fine, but this isn't the place to start pushing people out.

While people cherish their "intelligent discussion" on this forum, we have to keep in mind that new people need this place, too. It's a vital function for this forum and there's no good reason to push people out.

Essentially, we'd be turning this into a club house for the boys in pretty blue and grey suits.


Agreed. Every single word.

If this forum were made, and if it were the mystical paradise of rationality and reason which seems to be the target here, you know what other forums I'd visit? NONE. I wouldn't touch a damn thing besides the magic button to happysmartlogicland, and I kinda doubt anyone else would, either. You think discussion is bad now? Imagine the barren wasteland that would be the rest of the B.net forums without people who want real discussion raising the level of rhetoric. It would be the online version of the future seen in "The Time Machine." Two different species, one intelligent but delicate from extended periods of being, ostensibly, spoiled, and the other stupid, vicious and hard from having to survive in the mire that would be every other forum. Anyone unlucky enough to get kicked from the elite forum would find themselves torn to bits, drowning in the bile spewed from the proverbial mouths of those excluded from the bright, shiny, awesome place.

Additionally, if you start to put admission criteria on something labeled a "Community forum," it sends a message that those not allowed in are not part of the "Community." It'd be frustrating, staring at the conversations you wish you were a part of but aren't allowed to touch. Yeah, theoretically the new members would keep it clean and be active in other forums to earn their place in the exclusivist one, but I honestly believe that thinking this way is a painfully gross overestimation of how big the perception of the payoff would be relative to the perception of the insult.

You'd say "Pay your dues and you can get in," and all the newbies would say, "-blam!- you, elitist pricks. We're going to Waypoint." Or any of a thousand other online forums that wouldn't tease them or tell them that they aren't good enough to be a part of. Hell, anybody who ever got kicked out would probably say screw it and move on, and before you know it the whole place would be a ghost town with the same five people rehashing the same subjects.

I'm all for fostering more intelligent discussion, but excluding people based on arbitrary criteria isn't the way to to it. You propose a forum where people get booted for crappy grammar and bad argumentation, I'll back that business 100%. But trying to say that you can judge how good a member's post content will be based on whether their gamertag is linked? That bends fifty years of civil rights activism over a chair.

[Edited on 05.17.2012 8:41 AM PDT]

  • 05.17.2012 8:03 AM PDT

I don't like that idea. Yes, it's great to have some super intense discussion, but a lot of people sign up for forums to ask a question about the game they just bought. This community knows Halo better than most, and heck, the Bungie emps would be able to answer most, if not all, of their questions.

So, they come here for help. Yes, we have specific forums for each game, but Bungie might not create a new forum for the "new hawtness". If we restrict users and prevent them from posting for say a week (hey it's already a day until they can create threads), it gives the impression that their voice isn't important at the current time. Their only options are to post in a different forum or PM someone. Being new, I doubt they'd know who to PM.

[Edited on 05.17.2012 8:21 AM PDT]

  • 05.17.2012 8:20 AM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?

The sound of iron shocks is stuck in my head, The thunder of the drums dictates
The rhythm of the falls, the number of dead's the rising of the horns, ahead
From the dawn of time to the end of days I will have to run, away
I want to feel the pain and the bitter taste of the blood on my lips, again

By your logic, I could receive a 24 hour ban and I would need to wait months before I could post on the community forum?

This sounds like a bad idea.

  • 05.17.2012 10:05 AM PDT

Thanks for this chatter. I know you put a lot of thought into this.

I understand your thinking here. I can relate to the urge to insulate the community from casual users who might ruin the mood for sport. Believe me, I do. And, I have. The Community Forum, however, is not the place to do that.

We want Bungie.net to be a place that welcomes new users. I would challenge you to be more inclusive, more social, and more welcoming. Locking this board down for a user's first year is a full-on sprint in the other direction. Taking the voice of a new member away will only insure that less people decide that this community would be worth joining.

There is a place where you can enjoy an intense discussion that includes only the people who really care about polite discourse that benefits the community. There is a place where you have full control over the ambiance that swirls around your conversation. Your Groups are where this happens.

You know this. I know that you know this. And, some of you might even know that I know you know this. It's just good to have a reminder that a Community Forum that is wide open is all part of our plan. We want a place that is an honest reflection of all the people that like to visit Bungie.net - even if some of them like to peel out in the driveway and light off firecrackers on the dance floor.

  • 05.17.2012 10:26 AM PDT
  • gamertag: S034
  • user homepage:

Gettin' all Herodotean up in here!


Posted by: DeeJ
It's just good to have a reminder that a Community Forum that is wide open is all part of our plan.


How early on is this in your plan? Are we talking step two? Or should we begin raising the slingshot?

  • 05.17.2012 10:34 AM PDT

Ah but Deej, what if we tied this into something akin to 'placing value on account?' A common trend in the community forum is that people don't care about their accounts that much, often enough. There are two ways off the top of my head to place value on accounts. One is limiting newer accounts. The other is giving more benefits to older accounts.

So say we did the Super Secret Forum as seen in the last link of the first post. It is, for all intents and purposes, a Private Group forum. The exception is that... this is visible to the majority. Certain people can post in there. Everybody can read the conversations as it is a public forum (think: Optimatch Forum without a linked gamertag), but only a small number of people (relatively) can actually post in there.

This would encourage people to be good members over a long period of time. For example. Years ago I received a PM from Foman. I was being an idiot and instead of banning me he wrong a very long message explaining why I can't do what I did (I forget the offense). He said in there something along the lines of, 'You're not one of those people that deliberately tries to make trouble but...' So I've always related that to this forum idea. I've gotten in trouble a fair bit, but I'm not one of the people that is a deliberate ass to others. I honestly believe this. As such, I think I would be able to post in this secret forum.

But you get a couple Mythic Members who are... well, just asshats that are good at not getting banned as they toe the line? Well... maybe they don't get in. So emphasis is placed on who you are as well as how long you've been here. And newer members can see this, wish to be a part of it, and it encourages better behavior there as well.

What would the discussion in the forum be about? I don't know. But the concept itself seems just... so perfect to me given our current site format.

  • 05.17.2012 10:38 AM PDT

Posted by: burritosenior
Ah but Deej...

I said NO!

Kidding. Love you. Love the food that you named yourself after, too.

  • 05.17.2012 10:45 AM PDT

Check out my Soundcloud account to hear some of my music.
Here's my twitter, in the off-chance you want that too.

Community Joe Interview: defnop552
Bye.

Maybe I'm making a silly point. But what if someone who is new wants to contribute to the discussion with genuine arguments?

Say there was a "Points System for Posts" thread in this super forum. Users with extensive experience on other forums but with relatively new accounts here wouldn't be allowed to provide insight and input despite being knowledgeable in forums and forum communities. Unless they send their post to another user they have to sit, bite their tongue and wait for their account to gather enough rings so that they can post.

:-)

  • 05.17.2012 11:01 AM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted? Updated: Adding Forum

"Why concentrate on the negative when we can speak of the positive?"
My File Share
Try using the Search Bar next time.
Halo 2 was the best Halo game
A7x FoREVer!

Well for one thing the community forum would never have restrictions, because it wouldn't be a forum for the entire community anymore, would it? If you want a restricted forum then you should create a group that is closed to everyone but people who meet a certain criteria or set of requirements.

[Edited on 05.17.2012 1:59 PM PDT]

  • 05.17.2012 11:04 AM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted?


Posted by: DeeJ
Posted by: burritosenior
Ah but Deej...

I said NO!

Kidding. Love you. Burritos are major NOMS!


I agree!
I'm going to say this casual idea from a forum i used to frequent years ago in college. you were allowed full access to forums, but depending on your posts you would be able to unlock different parts of the forum that you did or didn't know existed... of course if you spammed to try to get something unlocked, you'd find a Gravity Ban Hammer makins some noise on your BLAM. I don't see something as this in nature as a bad thing. it's incentive to be more active.

  • 05.17.2012 11:31 AM PDT
Subject: What if the community forum.....was restricted? Updated: Adding Forum

I for one would be all for this idea, if only to laugh at new users when Bungie announce their new IP who can't post in the forum, like the elitist bastard I am.

I joke. I can see DeeJ'/Bungie's reasoning in being as inclusive as possible.

However, like burritosenior, Foman, and others, I can see it placing value on people's accounts, reducing trolling, flaming, spamming, blog posts, posts like HAI GUISE WHERES MAH STATS, etc. But that's for Private Groups I suppose. Not that, in my experience, I've found them to be particularly interesting or fulfilling.

  • 05.17.2012 11:35 AM PDT