Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo 4 lovers: Convince me to buy halo 4. (I'm aware it's n...
  • Subject: Halo 4 lovers: Convince me to buy halo 4. (I'm aware it's n...
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Halo 4 lovers: Convince me to buy halo 4. (I'm aware it's n...
  • gamertag: SSR14
  • user homepage:

R.I.P Halo 2, 4/14/10 - 4/21/10
The best 7 days of my life. :')


Posted by: ThePredkiller2
I am un-convincing you.
Do not give your money to corporate overlords.
Do not contribute to their fund for world domination.
The end result will be your enslavement!
You have been warned.

This.

  • 05.22.2012 9:29 PM PDT


Posted by: I Em I Raptor
There is no legitimate excuse that makes any sense in terms of canon as to why Chief's armor is changed. 343, for absolutely no reason, changed it without considering the gaping hole it'd cause in the canon.

-Cortana can't change it while he is in Cryo
-Forward Unto Dawn doesn't have futuristic Spartan armor laying around
-Even if there was new armor on the ship how did they fit it on?

Its just silly "I wan't to be artistically expressive." This game isn't about freaking art. Its about John.

According to me John's MJOLNIR Mk. VI looks the same way it did in Halo 2-3


Yeah, I just can't unsee the many little details that make the armor look more like... a 6.5 variant then the same mark VI we saw in halo 2 and 3.

  • 05.22.2012 9:36 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Poy357
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Chrome TaterTot
This is a sincere request. I loved halo, but the more recent releases have convinced me that the series is dead. What in halo 4 serves to counter this believe?


You loved a woman. Now, based on speculation alone with close to no evidence or proof, you claim she is cheating on you. Now, you are asking others to help.

Wow.

  • 05.22.2012 10:04 PM PDT


Posted by: Poy Poy
Posted by: Chrome TaterTot
This is a sincere request. I loved halo, but the more recent releases have convinced me that the series is dead. What in halo 4 serves to counter this believe?


You loved a woman. Now, based on speculation alone with close to no evidence or proof, you claim she is cheating on you. Now, you are asking others to help.

Wow.



That comparison makes zero sense what so ever.

  • 05.23.2012 12:13 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: I Em I Raptor
There is no legitimate excuse that makes any sense in terms of canon as to why Chief's armor is changed. 343, for absolutely no reason, changed it without considering the gaping hole it'd cause in the canon.

-Cortana can't change it while he is in Cryo
-Forward Unto Dawn doesn't have futuristic Spartan armor laying around
-Even if there was new armor on the ship how did they fit it on?

Its just silly "I wan't to be artistically expressive." This game isn't about freaking art. Its about John.

According to me John's MJOLNIR Mk. VI looks the same way it did in Halo 2-3


Yeah, I just can't unsee the many little details that make the armor look more like... a 6.5 variant then the same mark VI we saw in halo 2 and 3.



That link says they're used as packs for the IV and V. It's a wild guess, but that implies room for there to be an alternative for the VI. Such as it being pre-built.

Whatever, it's not a big deal. It's built in now, no one can argue. No one ever said that it wasn't built in, only now that someone says it is does anyone care. The logic behind refusing to accept it is the same line of thought behind "I can't see it, therefore it does not exist."

@I Em I Raptor

You're correct, it is not about art. It is about John. Which is exactly why they changed the look. You can better see the man inside the suit with this interpretation where before you saw a green space robot with a manly voice. He's no longer as stiff as such a robot, and the human physicque overall comes out better.

I've said it a thousand times but some people on this forum need to lighten up. What John's armor looks like is irrelevant to the story, it is just a different artistic interpretation from Bungie's. Take the Bungie loyalty/nostalgia glasses off and stop trying to make everything 343i does out as wrong.

If you're this obsessive about everything, how do you seriously get any enjoyment out of life?

  • 05.23.2012 4:26 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: I Em I Raptor
There is no legitimate excuse that makes any sense in terms of canon as to why Chief's armor is changed. 343, for absolutely no reason, changed it without considering the gaping hole it'd cause in the canon.

-Cortana can't change it while he is in Cryo
-Forward Unto Dawn doesn't have futuristic Spartan armor laying around
-Even if there was new armor on the ship how did they fit it on?

Its just silly "I wan't to be artistically expressive." This game isn't about freaking art. Its about John.

According to me John's MJOLNIR Mk. VI looks the same way it did in Halo 2-3


I'm going to say to you what I've said to just about every other person who says what you say - I didn't see you complaining when Bungie completely overhauled Thel's armour from Halo 2 to 3, having it change colour, sprout a shoulder-mounted flashlight and mandible guards. There's no logical canonical explanation for that either, there's only ever 1 suit of armour for an Arbiter because the idea is that it's passed down from one Arbiter to another (thus no more than 1 suit is tailored at any given time).

So why did they change Thel's armour? ARTISTIC EVOLUTION. This is the case with John in Halo 4, but at least 343i have said that they're going to juxtapose that with a canonical explanation.

This game isn't about freaking art. Its about John.

This has to be the most foolish thing I've heard in a while. Halo is ALL ABOUT ART, everything in all of the games is the product of artistic direction and evolution. They've constantly said that Halo 4 is going to be focused on the Forerunner ART AND ARCHITECTURE being much more active now, they even released a trailer based entirely around the concept art showing how it plays a pivotal role in showing us the environments and the progression of the story. They put metaphorical meanings to be interpreted in the box art too.

How can you say, with such haughty arrogance, that this game isn't about art when it (like all its predecessors) is?

  • 05.23.2012 6:07 AM PDT

http://metahalo.com/

Not worried about the story. If MM is good ill get it. If they mess up with AAs and whatnot again I probably won't.

  • 05.23.2012 6:42 AM PDT

You guys are horrible! you sit here and call Reach a failure, yet you're sitting on B.net saying how much you love Bungie and support them, knowing that that was their gem they put their soul into thus far. I love Reach, and as for a reason to buy 4, buy it cause you love the Halo Story. I'll bet you every single Bungie employee will own it.

[Edited on 05.23.2012 7:09 AM PDT]

  • 05.23.2012 7:08 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: I Em I Raptor
This game isn't about freaking art. Its about John.
Everything done in Halo is an art, especially in CE:

Tower to Tower.
Shooting Grunts then watching them stick each other.
Blowing up frozen Elites.
Re-positioning sleeping Grunts by giving them a scare and hiding.
Getting Zealots and Hunters to betray their teammates.
Supported massive AI collections for a real Firefight experience, one that is even more customizable than CEA's Installation 04.
Being stealthy on AotCR.
Cutscene manipulations.

  • 05.23.2012 7:13 AM PDT

Or, it implies that none of the books featuring mark VI armor had them in a spot requiring thrusters.

No, my logic isn't "I can't see it, therefore it doesn't exist." my logic is "If this was always there, then why was it never even REFERENCED before." or "If this was always there, then why wasn't it used in these spots, where it would have been helpful?"

As for chief. I at least, am not trying to make everything 343 does sound wrong. I am however, questioning certain choices. Like Forward Unto Dawn in the box art no longer looking like a frigate and having the NEW unsc symbol, not the old.

Since they've outright said he isn't going to be talking more, and instead his character develops through those around him (huh?), why does he need to appear more human? He's a spartan. His mark VI armor was fine.

I think you need to lighten up Roberto, if it's irrelevant to the story, then why change it so much? Yes, I'm all for 343 going their own art route. But if they are going to have things from previous halo games, the least they can do is make those things LOOK similar/nearly the same as they did before. Mark V in CE to CEA for example. Upgraded graphics, but can everybody tell it's mark V? yes. In halo 3 to halo 4, you can't just spot tell it's mark VI.

About Thel's armor... I'm fairly sure the color was due to lighting, and color wears. He went through a few flood infested areas, maybe it got stained. Manible guards and the shoulder flashlight are MINOR details. Like chief's gloves in halo 2 to halo 3. Does it cause you to look at the armor and go "Is this the same armor?" Nope.



edit: Okay, to clear up. Is my problem the thrusters? NO. My problem is the cheap ass excuse 343 tossed out to cover them. "Always being there." but never even hinted at just bugs me. Epsecially since chief has had this armor for TWO games, and something like that upgrade wise should've been mentioned. Plus you know, the cairo space scenes would be perfect to show the thrusters off. And the final scene of halo 3. Chief could've used them to help secure his grip, or after the credits scene in the forward unto dawn, does he use thrusters? No. He pushes himself off walls. Thrusters always being there makes him look stupid.

Now, if say... Chief got out of cryo, and in first encounter with an elite that portion of his armor was sliced, and Cortana directs him to a armory which housed some spare parts just in cause during the battle of the Ark his suit got damaged, and he puts the new plate on and this on had thrusters? I'd accept that.


But... you know I'm just waiting to see Chief wake up, reach over and grab his assault rifle, and it's magically a MA5D, instead of the MA5C. or grabbing a BR85/MA5D, and the MA5C we CLEARLY saw him placing in a weapon rack besides the tube is gone.

[Edited on 05.23.2012 8:45 AM PDT]

  • 05.23.2012 8:29 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Or, it implies that none of the books featuring mark VI armor had them in a spot requiring thrusters.

No, my logic isn't "I can't see it, therefore it doesn't exist." my logic is "If this was always there, then why was it never even REFERENCED before." or "If this was always there, then why wasn't it used in these spots, where it would have been helpful?"

As for chief. I at least, am not trying to make everything 343 does sound wrong. I am however, questioning certain choices. Like Forward Unto Dawn in the box art no longer looking like a frigate and having the NEW unsc symbol, not the old.

Since they've outright said he isn't going to be talking more, and instead his character develops through those around him (huh?), why does he need to appear more human? He's a spartan. His mark VI armor was fine.

I think you need to lighten up Roberto, if it's irrelevant to the story, then why change it so much? Yes, I'm all for 343 going their own art route. But if they are going to have things from previous halo games, the least they can do is make those things LOOK similar/nearly the same as they did before. Mark V in CE to CEA for example. Upgraded graphics, but can everybody tell it's mark V? yes. In halo 3 to halo 4, you can't just spot tell it's mark VI.

About Thel's armor... I'm fairly sure the color was due to lighting, and color wears. He went through a few flood infested areas, maybe it got stained. Manible guards and the shoulder flashlight are MINOR details. Like chief's gloves in halo 2 to halo 3. Does it cause you to look at the armor and go "Is this the same armor?" Nope.



edit: Okay, to clear up. Is my problem the thrusters? NO. My problem is the cheap ass excuse 343 tossed out to cover them. "Always being there." but never even hinted at just bugs me. Epsecially since chief has had this armor for TWO games, and something like that upgrade wise should've been mentioned. Plus you know, the cairo space scenes would be perfect to show the thrusters off. And the final scene of halo 3. Chief could've used them to help secure his grip, or after the credits scene in the forward unto dawn, does he use thrusters? No. He pushes himself off walls. Thrusters always being there makes him look stupid.

Now, if say... Chief got out of cryo, and in first encounter with an elite that portion of his armor was sliced, and Cortana directs him to a armory which housed some spare parts just in cause during the battle of the Ark his suit got damaged, and he puts the new plate on and this on had thrusters? I'd accept that.


But... you know I'm just waiting to see Chief wake up, reach over and grab his assault rifle, and it's magically a MA5D, instead of the MA5C. or grabbing a BR85/MA5D, and the MA5C we CLEARLY saw him placing in a weapon rack besides the tube is gone.
I'm glad to see someone else is bothered by these inconsistencies. Call it "artistic vision," call it a "canonical explanation," call it whatever you want to, it just seems to me that 343i has made A LOT of changes just for the sake of change. Meanwhile, they try to fool people with their constant explanations of holistic change.

In my opinion, the design changes they've made not only do not fit canonically, they either do not make sense are inferior visually to their predecessors.

  • 05.23.2012 11:00 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Wort, wort, wort!

I really really a canon person myself and shall defend every last bit of the old Halo canon (pre-Reach). Bungie killed off quite a bit of it with Halo:Reach, and now 343 for no apparent reason changes Chief's armor. It's one of the series trademark's. Everyone knows the cyborg dude in green armor! You know, "Halo's a pretty cool guy"

And 343 just goes out of their way to spit the Halo canon fans in the face just for the sake of "artistic vision". Really now? Shouldn't they atleast TRY to keep their content up to a quality so they could milk it longer? And atleast PRETEND that they're trying to please the lore fanatics who will find every single plothole and then start a war on a forum and forever hate the company.

When I told a friend (who isn't a canon fanatic like me) about the armor change he only said "big deal, it's their game, bla bla bla". Making a huge plothole and upsetting the Universe nerds is not a big deal. And the other masses don't really care if the Mark VI looks like a Mark VII or a Mark XI, they just want to blow up big blue things and boom bam, Michael Bay!
Wether we like it or not, 343 has messed with some of the core Halo art. And wether we like it or not, Halo 4 will sell a ton of copies. It might kill Halo canon for all we know, but as long as the multiplayer is succesfull it'll be just another CoD with MP focused gameplay.

  • 05.23.2012 12:48 PM PDT

While I disagree personally with the Halo Reach statement, to me Halo4 is the testing ground.

Glasslands (to me) placed Halo lore on shaky ground. Now Halo 4, and I guess the rest of the glasslands trilogy somewhat, has to prove to me that Halo lore isn't going to go downhill.

And I'm a big fan of the little details... So unless they go and outright retcon the UNSC symbol to always being this new one, I better not see if on any of the gear/stuff/Forward Unto Dawn.

  • 05.23.2012 1:04 PM PDT

We don't even know, if he has the thrusters implemented in the armor he is waking up with...
Although I also think, that the armor change is reasonable (I still like the new style).

  • 05.23.2012 1:08 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Sp4rksLT
I really really a canon person myself and shall defend every last bit of the old Halo canon (pre-Reach). Bungie killed off quite a bit of it with Halo:Reach, and now 343 for no apparent reason changes Chief's armor. It's one of the series trademark's. Everyone knows the cyborg dude in green armor! You know, "Halo's a pretty cool guy"

And 343 just goes out of their way to spit the Halo canon fans in the face just for the sake of "artistic vision". Really now? Shouldn't they atleast TRY to keep their content up to a quality so they could milk it longer? And atleast PRETEND that they're trying to please the lore fanatics who will find every single plothole and then start a war on a forum and forever hate the company.

When I told a friend (who isn't a canon fanatic like me) about the armor change he only said "big deal, it's their game, bla bla bla". Making a huge plothole and upsetting the Universe nerds is not a big deal. And the other masses don't really care if the Mark VI looks like a Mark VII or a Mark XI, they just want to blow up big blue things and boom bam, Michael Bay!
Wether we like it or not, 343 has messed with some of the core Halo art. And wether we like it or not, Halo 4 will sell a ton of copies. It might kill Halo canon for all we know, but as long as the multiplayer is succesfull it'll be just another CoD with MP focused gameplay.


And here, ladies and gentlemen, we have an example of a classic overreaction from an overly pedantic person.

How exactly does changing a few aesthetics mean 343i is going "out of their way to spit in the Halo canon fans in the face"? It doesn't matter at all, Mark VI in Halo 3 looked horrid anyway, it looks infinitely better as it is now. And what's funnier is that you justify this by saying it will lead to people "hating the company forever"... er, no, I don't think that a few aesthetic changes are going to impact the quality of the product at all.

There is no "core Halo art". Halo's art, like all art, is constantly evolving and changing. Compare Halo 2's artistic direction of New Mombasa to ODST's, the architecture is very different. And how can we further expand on this? Because it's an upgraded engine, thus the artistic direction evolves and changes. Why can you readily accept that but not something like John's armour? The only time you see the armour is in the cutscenes and when you die, it really doesn't matter.

It might kill Halo canon for all we know, but as long as the multiplayer is succesfull it'll be just another CoD with MP focused gameplay.

I just... don't know whether to laugh or sigh in frustration at your completely inane logic. You've based this over a few COSMETIC changes which have absolutely no effect on the game at all...

  • 05.23.2012 1:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Wort, wort, wort!

Yes, I am kind of a pedantic person and I like attention to detail. Why? Because the big picture is made of none other than details. We all know that 343i was made to make money out of Halo franchise, there is no hiding that. It is all up to them how long do they try to hide it and atleast try to have some quality in the Halo (whateverstuffs they make from now on) franchise. You don't like to hear that Halo got kinda MP focused? Well sorry, but it did. Since Halo 2 it was kind of a big thing, MP really expanded with Halo 3, and afaik Halo:Reach MP was the biggest yet. Yes, Bungie did develop games for all types of players. They said it themselves, they made Halo for the story people and for the multiplayer people, but really, with Reach I lost quite a bit of faith in Bungie. The multiplayer played quite a large role in the game, tbh. We will have to see how far 343 goes, but really, remember my words when you play Halo 4. I'm 90% sure I'll be able to say "I told you so". And if Halo 4's story is quality content, not canon-ripping -blam!- I will eat my own hat, you have my word.

Also, cosmetic changes do matter. You don't look at the sound of the game, you don't look at the script of the game, you don't look at the story of the game. You SEE the cosmetic part and it's a big part of the whole. Cosmetics go into story, cosmetics go quite a bit into gameplay. Cosmetics matter. And if they want Chief to magicaly change armor they should EXPLAIN it. Why? Because last time I checked Halo was sci-fi. And sci-fi uses mostly facts, and far-fetched SCIENTIFIC, that means precise theories.

  • 05.23.2012 1:24 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Sp4rksLT
Yes, I am kind of a pedantic person and I like attention to detail. Why? Because the big picture is made of none other than details.


The difference is that the details you're complaining about have ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT ON ANYTHING. The Forward Unto Dawn is still the Forward Unto Dawn, John is still John, everything is still exactly what it was. This is the "bigger picture", not the tiny details.

We all know that 343i was made to make money out of Halo franchise, there is no hiding that. It is all up to them how long do they try to hide it and atleast try to have some quality in the Halo (whateverstuffs they make from now on) franchise.

The primary goal of any game-making company is returning a profit, they're not trying to hide anything of the sort because anyone with a degree of common sense knows this.

You don't like to hear that Halo got kinda MP focused? Well sorry, but it did. Since Halo 2 it was kind of a big thing, MP really expanded with Halo 3, and afaik Halo:Reach MP was the biggest yet. Yes, Bungie did develop games for all types of players. They said it themselves, they made Halo for the story people and for the multiplayer people, but really, with Reach I lost quite a bit of faith in Bungie. The multiplayer played quite a large role in the game, tbh. We will have to see how far 343 goes, but really, remember my words when you play Halo 4. I'm 90% sure I'll be able to say "I told you so". And if Halo 4's story is quality content, not canon-ripping -blam!- I will eat my own hat, you have my word.

You should already be eating your hat. EVERYTHING IN HALO 4 IS INTERWEAVED WITH THE LORE. Multiplayer is now directly tied to the main story with the UNSC Infinity and Spartan-IVs, Spartan Ops is a colossal undertaking where we're being promised weekly/monthly half-hour long missions complete with CG cutscenes, a whole new cast of characters etc. You just have to watch a single ViDoc from 343i talking about the multiplayer to realise this:
[i]"We've always had this sort of schism between multiplayer and campaign, and the campaign was completely wrapped in fiction and multiplayer just wasn't." ~ Frankie

One of their main goals with Halo 4 has been to connect all the fiction together. They've actually been making a conscious effort to connec the games and other media, for instance the Forerunner Saga has very resonant connections with the Reclaimer Trilogy. And look at the CEA Terminals, they didn't need to be added at all, they could have easily just remade CE and be done with it but Kevin Grace sat down and created a masterful portrayal of the characters of Keyes and 343 Guilty Spark.

Also, cosmetic changes do matter. You don't look at the sound of the game, you don't look at the script of the game, you don't look at the story of the game. You SEE the cosmetic part and it's a big part of the whole. Cosmetics go into story, cosmetics go quite a bit into gameplay. Cosmetics matter. And if they want Chief to magicaly change armor they should EXPLAIN it. Why? Because last time I checked Halo was sci-fi. And sci-fi uses mostly facts, and far-fetched SCIENTIFIC, that means precise theories.

That's funny because last time I checked, Frankie said that THERE WILL BE A CANONICAL EXPLANATION for the changes to John's armour.

You only used half an argument there, you either forgot or chose to forget that it's science FICTION. Meaning it doesn't have to adhere to facts, which like 90% of sci-fi universes don't do.

  • 05.23.2012 1:44 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2